Ireland - JWC thread (June 2nd to June 20th)

[profitius]

Ireland U20 squad for JWC announced.

RELAND UNDER-20 Squad (2014 IRB Junior World Championship, New Zealand, June 2-20):

Max Abbott (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Rory Burke (Cork Constitution/Munster)
David Busby (Queen's University/Ulster)
Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster)
Denis Coulson (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Billy Dardis (UCD/Leinster) *
Diarmaid Dee (Young Munster/Munster) *
Dylan Donnellan (UCD/Leinster) *
Peter Dooley (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ryan Foley (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Ciaran Gaffney (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Stephen Gardiner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Goggin (Young Munster/Munster)
Cian Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)
John Madigan (Dolphin/Munster) *
Nick McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)
Conor McKeon (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Darragh Moloney (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Rory Moloney (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Ross Molony (UCD/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Galwegians/Connacht) (capt)
Jack O'Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)
Peter Robb (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Frankie Taggart (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Peadar Timmins (UCD/Leinster)
Craig Trenier (Terenure College/Leinster) *
Alex Wootton (Garryowen/Munster)

* Denotes uncapped player at international Under-20 level

IRELAND - POOL B FIXTURES:

Monday, June 2: France v IRELAND, QBE Stadium, Auckland, 5.35pm local time/6.35am Irish time (Buy match tickets)

Friday, June 6: Wales v IRELAND, ECOLight Stadium, Pukekohe, 5.35pm local time/6.35am Irish time (Buy match tickets)

Tuesday, June 10: IRELAND v Fiji, QBE Stadium, Auckland, 1.35pm local time/2.35am Irish time (Buy match tickets)


Provincial breakdown : Leinster 14, Munster 9, Connacht 3, Ulster 2.

[Golden]

Still only the 2 Ulster players. I thought their numbers would go up from the 6 nations.

Looking forward to seeing Dardis play since he missed the 6 nations. Although itll probably be more the highlights ill get to see.

Very tough group tough. Already lost to 2 of them this year. However we usually do better come the world championships

[LeinsterFan4life]

What happened to Leavy? is he injured?

Edit just found out that he picked up a shoulder injury and also Adam Byrne picked up another ankle injury. Two massive loses.

[profitius]

Strange alright that only 2 Ulster players are in it. Scratching my head over that. Also think a few players are lucky to be retained after the 6 nations. You could probably name another side that would give this one a good game.

[gleesonisgod]

Still only the 2 Ulster players. I thought their numbers would go up from the 6 nations.

Looking forward to seeing Dardis play since he missed the 6 nations. Although itll probably be more the highlights ill get to see.

Very tough group tough. Already lost to 2 of them this year. However we usually do better come the world championships

They've avoided the SH teams and England, can't think of a much easier group tbh. But it is tough all the same.

They were disappointing in the 6N, with what looked to be a strong team on paper, but weren't helped by the atrocious weather.

I don't think we can progress without Leavy.

Excited about Dardis but disappointed Parata didn't make the squad.

[profitius]

Still only the 2 Ulster players. I thought their numbers would go up from the 6 nations.

Looking forward to seeing Dardis play since he missed the 6 nations. Although itll probably be more the highlights ill get to see.

Very tough group tough. Already lost to 2 of them this year. However we usually do better come the world championships

They've avoided the SH teams and England, can't think of a much easier group tbh. But it is tough all the same.

They were disappointing in the 6N, with what looked to be a strong team on paper, but weren't helped by the atrocious weather.

I don't think we can progress without Leavy.

Excited about Dardis but disappointed Parata didn't make the squad.

Yeah on paper the group is the easiest you could ask for. Wales and France will be saying the same! However that might not be the reality at all. At this level theres very little between the teams and a lot comes down to performance on the day. Ireland beat Australia last year and pushed the ABs close. Wales got to the final, beating the baby boks. France can't be written off either.


As for performance, hard to say after the 6 nations. Ireland usually perform much better in the JWC. One problem could be the NZ weather because june is in their winter. 8 changes to the 6 nations squad with a few bigger players called up/back from injury, which should stop the team getting pushed around so easily.

[Standulstermen]

Is there an issue with Ruddock picking players he knows instead of branching out a bit? I am purely asking as I don't know a lot about said age group. There doesn't seem to be the buzz (sans Leavy) that there was in previous years regarding some of the talent. Leinster heads in particular will be far better placed than me to comment on this

[gleesonisgod]

Is there an issue with Ruddock picking players he knows instead of branching out a bit? I am purely asking as I don't know a lot about said age group. There doesn't seem to be the buzz (sans Leavy) that there was in previous years regarding some of the talent. Leinster heads in particular will be far better placed than me to comment on this

There's lots of buzz around Leavy, A Byrne (injured like Leavy), Dardis, Dooley, and O'Brien.

Bitta buzz around O'Donoghue, Rory Moloney, and a few others.

[profitius]

Is there an issue with Ruddock picking players he knows instead of branching out a bit? I am purely asking as I don't know a lot about said age group. There doesn't seem to be the buzz (sans Leavy) that there was in previous years regarding some of the talent. Leinster heads in particular will be far better placed than me to comment on this

There's lots of buzz around Leavy, A Byrne (injured like Leavy), Dardis, Dooley, and O'Brien.

Bitta buzz around O'Donoghue, Rory Moloney, and a few others.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to hype. My own opinion from seeing them is the following.
Leavy looks a big prospect. He is a class player with great footballing skills and good athlete.
Jack O'Donoghue is another big prospect at 8. He is very fast and again has good footballing skills.
Sean O'Brien looks like another with a big future. Good ball carrier for a lock.
Dooley is another ball carring loosehead that we tend to produce in Ireland. Another with a good chance of making it.
Ross Byrne was the stand out Irish player in the 6 nations IMO. He does blow hot and cold though but he is a classy 10.
Nick McCarthy is a 9 that doesn't get much hype or practically none but I reckon he'll turn out better than Luke McGrath. He has an excellent pass.
Max Abbott looks like a Varley but with the skills of a center.
Peter Robb is a 105kg center, very powerful and impressed in the 6 nations. Certain turn professional.
Busby is one of 2 Ulster players. A wing or 15 and very solid player. Was picked ahead of the much hyped Dardis.


Rory Burke, Dan Goggin, Adam Byrne, Ringrose, Ross Molony are the players who are talented but have not stood out so far for Ireland. The others I have not seen or seen too little of.

Conor McKeon at 10 is tiny. Didn't really have a good 6 nations and his selection could be a Lansdowne pick I'd say. Theres a few other hyped 10s around that I would have liked to see.

John Madigan is back from being injured for most of the season. He is a 120kg second row and by all accounts a big prospect. The new tighthead in the squad is Greg Trenier who is also 120kg and comes in for Heffernan who is U19 still this year. So that makes Connachts hyped Georgian tighthead, 4th choice at best. They'll need these players against the bigger teams especially the Welsh pack who are massive.

So its a solid team. Leavy is missing from that list.

[profitius]

Rumours that John Madigan refused permission to go by Munster. He is being replaces by Josh Murphy

[profitius]

Rumours that Peter Robb and David Busby will miss the JWC through injury.

[profitius]

S O'Brien also out for Ireland. That's him, Dan Leavy, Adam Byrne, Peter Robb, John Madigan and David Busby. Arguably all are first choice starters.

[LeinsterFan4life]

The good thing is, it will give exposure to more young players that didn't get a chance in the 6n but these injuries to key players has obviously taken away any chance of beating our previous best of 5th place.

[PenfroPete]

LIVE ON TG4

I'll post details of all televised matches at the JWC on that thread

[LeinsterFan4life]

Ireland U20 v France (KO 6.35am Irish time – broadcast live on TG4)

15. Cian Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)
14. Ciaran Gaffney (Galwegians/Connacht)*
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster).
12. Dan Goggin (Young Munster/Munster)
11. Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster)
9. Nick McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)
1. Peter Dooley (Lansdowne/Leinster)
2. Max Abbott (Cork Constitution/Munster)
3. Craig Trenier (Terenure/Leinster) *
4. Stephen Gardiner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Ross Molony (UCD/Leinster)
6. Peadar Timmins (UCD/Leinster)
7. Frankie Taggart (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
8. Jack O’ Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster) capt

Replacements:
16. Dylan Donnellan (UCD/Leinster) *
17. Denis Coulson (Lansdowne/Leinster)
18. Rory Burke (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19. Darragh Moloney (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
20. Diarmaid Dee (Young Munster/Munster) *
21. Ryan Foley (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
22. Conor McKeon (Lansdowne/Leinster)
23. Billy Dardis (UCD/Leinster

[profitius]

Ireland U20 v France (KO 6.35am Irish time – broadcast live on TG4)

15. Cian Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)
14. Ciaran Gaffney (Galwegians/Connacht)*
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster).
12. Dan Goggin  (Young Munster/Munster)
11. Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster)
9. Nick McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)
1. Peter Dooley (Lansdowne/Leinster)
2. Max Abbott   (Cork Constitution/Munster)
3. Craig Trenier (Terenure/Leinster) *
4. Stephen Gardiner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Ross Molony (UCD/Leinster)
6. Peadar Timmins (UCD/Leinster)
7. Frankie Taggart (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
8. Jack O’ Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster) capt

Replacements:
16. Dylan Donnellan (UCD/Leinster) *
17. Denis Coulson (Lansdowne/Leinster)      
18. Rory Burke (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19. Darragh Moloney (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
20. Diarmaid Dee (Young Munster/Munster) *
21. Ryan Foley (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
22. Conor McKeon (Lansdowne/Leinster)
23. Billy Dardis (UCD/Leinster

Looks like they're picking the biggest team they can. No surprise really.

[profitius]

Yet another injury. Tighthead Craig Trenier is out of the tournament with a foot injury.

http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2071574.html#teams+eager+underway+jwc2014

[whocares]

France team for Ireland (from 15 to 1):

Justes ; Hamdaoui, Mignot, Roux, Blanc ; Fajardo, Serin ; Cros (cap), Camara, Lespinasse ; Singer, Iturria ; Raynaud, Ruffenach, Ishchenko

Featuring few of the last 6N winners including Camara that plays for Toulouse (you might remember him from the Munster game as he was probably their best player). Serin the SH and Ruffenach the hooker are also ones to watch .

[profitius]

France team for Ireland (from 15 to 1):

Justes ; Hamdaoui, Mignot, Roux, Blanc ;  Fajardo, Serin ; Cros (cap), Camara, Lespinasse ; Singer, Iturria ; Raynaud, Ruffenach, Ishchenko

Featuring few of the last 6N winners including Camara that plays for Toulouse (you might remember him from the Munster game as he was probably their best player). Serin the SH and Ruffenach the hooker are also ones to watch .

I think I remember Serin alright. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRIlLXd6PIZodPaSUMKY9J_uXx_OOqNhyjv9fpC-7bzdMncklZAA  

[whocares]

Haha. Good lookalike. Is that Coentrao?

[profitius]

Haha. Good lookalike. Is that Coentrao?

Thats Serin's twin, Fernando Torres.

[The Great Aukster]

Dear oh dear - just watched the French game. Ruddock must be a great coach to have kept that game close. Usually there are two or three solid prospects and maybe 5 or six that could make it, but in that performance there didn't look to be any.
O'Donoghue gets a bye because of his 6N performances, as does Kelleher (just). The scrum was good though - the one bright spot in a dark grey game, but the team is so devoid of ideas that it's hard to see anything special to look forward to from the class of 2014.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Dear oh dear - just watched the French game. Ruddock must be a great coach to have kept that game close. Usually there are two or three solid prospects and maybe 5 or six that could make it, but in that performance there didn't look to be any.
O'Donoghue gets a bye because of his 6N performances, as does Kelleher (just). The scrum was good though - the one bright spot in a dark grey game, but the team is so devoid of ideas that it's hard to see anything special to look forward to from the class of 2014.

Well there are a couple of great prospects as always in Leavy, SOB, JOD, Byrne and Dooley with the likes of Kelleher as you say and Maloney (he was very good in the B&I cup final) who look like they can make it in the pro game.

But this team has been decimated by injuries with two of them being our captains (Leavy and SOB).

[profitius]

Dear oh dear - just watched the French game. Ruddock must be a great coach to have kept that game close. Usually there are two or three solid prospects and maybe 5 or six that could make it, but in that performance there didn't look to be any.
O'Donoghue gets a bye because of his 6N performances, as does Kelleher (just). The scrum was good though - the one bright spot in a dark grey game, but the team is so devoid of ideas that it's hard to see anything special to look forward to from the class of 2014.

Ruddock didn't keep them in it the scrum did. So the props have potential at least. I would agree that it was an awful performance but its too early to judge the players.

[rodders]

Agree with the above - apart from a good scrum and a well taken try there aren't many positives to be taken from that. The scoreline didn't do france justice at all.

Our backrow were anonymous at the breakdown and their pack seemed to be brushing off our tacklers at will. Lineout was picked off too.

It was a brave effort to hang in there but it looked like men against boys at times. Not great at all by the Irish lads.

[SecretFly]

Men against boys it is.  

Didn't see the game so I'll have to go on my thoughts of what I see everytime I look at this grade (either last year at the JWC or this 6N).
I keep saying the disparity between where Ireland is in terms of senior development must be closed with how serious we are about developing our younger grades. Can we help these junior sides actually look like they might be able to compete with this increasingly Senior-like expectancy from U20 level?  Players are bigger and only their birth cert can often be the difference between distinguishing whether they are senior or u20 players!  

That shortfall in Ireland might be/is down to numbers this time, I'll definitely concede that.  Countries like Fance and England will certainly be able to call on more young players who meet the top level U20 physical requirements.  Ireland will struggle through lack of those numbers.

The young Irish players are up against brick wall sides, some of which could have a genuine hit at lesser International senior sides.  The blunt physical gap is there.... it's not about skill or accuracy it's about that blunt men and boys analogy.  And so I'm increasingly not seeing a whole lot of sense in having this yearly competition when the physical disparity is often so great between supposedly equally aged and developed players.

[rodders]

It's not just about physical disparity fly - the skill levels, tactical awareness and technique were very poor. France were committing numbers to the ruck and our backrow and locks were just standing waiting to carry while our scrum half was repeatedly getting sacked.

We were too high in the tackle and getting brushed off - too often looking for the choke tackles and conceding huge ground without being able to stop the recycle. The lineout was poor and execution was poor generally.  

Conditioning wise we seemed to be superior but there was a lack of physicality and work rate from the back row and pack generally. Scrummaging was really good but not good enough around the park from the forwards. If that's the next generation we'll be relying on project players for a while yet.

[SecretFly]

It's not just about physical disparity fly - the skill levels, tactical awareness and technique were very poor. France were committing numbers to the ruck and our backrow and locks were just standing waiting to carry while our scrum half was repeatedly getting sacked.

We were too high in the tackle and getting brushed off - too often looking for the choke tackles and conceding huge ground without being able to stop the recycle. The lineout was poor and execution was poor generally.  

Conditioning wise we seemed to be superior but there was a lack of physicality and work rate from the back row and pack generally. Scrummaging was really good but not good enough around the park from the forwards. If that's the next generation we'll be relying on project players for a while yet.

I see physical disparity just staring me bluntly in the face everytime I watch this grade Rodders. Can't help it... my eyes see what they see.  Often to me it's just a joke grade when you see many of our genuine looking U20 scaldings up against guys who only look U20 when you see the music on their ipods

Skill levels, tactical awareness and technique can be an issue but being pummelled through a game or through a sequence of games can collapse or influence those issues too.  Conditioning is the only thing I'll concede that Irish guys match or exceed their opponents.  But again, conditioning itself is still exposed against sides that often appear just a nod below fully fledged senior A sides.

[SecretFly]

PS...true though. "Skill levels, tactical awareness, technique" Ruddock don't look like being the man for me for this job no more. But then I said that last year too. Perhaps Girvan Dempsey???

[rodders]

I don't like Ruddock - all style and no substance for me.

It's all very well throwing the ball around but you need to do the basics - create quick ball and cross the gain line. Defence just not good enough either - size or no size too many missed first up tackles and poor body position and commitment at the breakdown.

[SecretFly]

Dempsey it is then. I'll talk to Head Office.

[asoreleftshoulder]

It's not just about physical disparity fly - the skill levels, tactical awareness and technique were very poor. France were committing numbers to the ruck and our backrow and locks were just standing waiting to carry while our scrum half was repeatedly getting sacked.

We were too high in the tackle and getting brushed off - too often looking for the choke tackles and conceding huge ground without being able to stop the recycle. The lineout was poor and execution was poor generally.  

Conditioning wise we seemed to be superior but there was a lack of physicality and work rate from the back row and pack generally. Scrummaging was really good but not good enough around the park from the forwards. If that's the next generation we'll be relying on project players for a while yet.

We only need 1 or 2 players to make it from that team,we were missing 7 or 8 players through injury who would all be very close to 1st teamers including the two guys who are really expected to have good professional careers,Leavy and Sean O'Brien v.2

[LeinsterFan4life]

Apparently Ireland arrived in NZ a lot later than most of the other countries in the comp. They decided to stay in Dublin rather then get to NZ early to acclimatise.

I wonder was it just to save money or just very poor planning.

[profitius]

2 changes


Ireland v Wales ( Kick-off 6.35 am Irish time live on TG4.)
15 Cian Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)
14 Ciaran Gaffney (Galwegians/Connacht)
13 Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)
12 Dan Goggin (Young Munster /Munster)
11 Alex Wootton (Garryowen/Munster)
10 Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster)
9 Nick McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)
1 Peter Dooley (Lansdowne/Leinster)
2 Max Abbott (Cork Constitution/Munster)
3 Rory Burke (Cork Constitution/Munster)
4 Darragh Moloney (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 Ross Molony (UCD/Leinster)
6 Peadar Timmins (UCD/Leinster)
7 Frankie Taggart (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
8 Jack O’ Donoghue (ULBohemians/Munster) (Capt)
Replacements
16 Dylan Donnellan (UCD/Leinster)
17 Denis Coulson (Lansdowne/Leinster)
18 Oisin Heffernan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
19 Josh Murphy (UCD/Leinster)
20 Diarmaid Dee (Young Munster/Munster)
21 Ryan Foley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 Conor McKeon (Lansdowne/Leinster)
23 Harrisson Brewer (Terenure/Leinster)

[The Saint]

Anyone know a stream where I can watch this tomorrow? I don't have red button access on my Sky Player app.

[profitius]

Anyone know a stream where I can watch this tomorrow? I don't have red button access on my Sky Player app.

Its should be on the IRB website. http://www.irb.com/jwc/tv/index.html  Check that tomorrow.

If you're in Britain or Ireland it might block your IP address. If so look up 'hola'.

Its on TG4 as well, if you have access to that.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Wow... What a performance. Ringrose is certainly one for the future. That was surely one of the best individual performances by an Irish player at a JWC.

[brennomac]

Didn't get to the see the game v Wales - but the way the results have gone elsewhere a bonus point win v Fiji in the last game would give the Ireland juniors 11 pts, and this means they couldn't be caught by the Baby Blacks or the Baby Wallabies (both can only get a max of 10 pts after being beaten by the Baby Boks and England)- and a guaranteed semi final slot as 4th seed.

If that happens, would be a great result for the juniors

[profitius]

Just got around to watching it. It was a good display from Ireland. All the players played well.

Ringrose was excellent. He showed some wonderful footballing ability. Goggin was also excellent in the center as was Ross Byrne. It was a complete turnaround from the last game.

Wales were very poor though. Without their scrum dominance it could have been embarrassing.

They've a great opportunity now to make some changes and keep the team fresh for a potential semi final. I wonder if Ruddock has the balls to do it.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Will Byrne still be eligible next year? He is only 19. The likes of Brewer, Ringrose and Dardis will still be there next year so there is a good core of backs to build around.

[profitius]

9 players are eligible next year. Dardis, Gaffney, Ringrose, Brewer, Ross Byrne, McCarthy, Josh Murphy, Rory Moloney, Oisin Heffernan. Mostly backs so the backline should be strong next year.

[asoreleftshoulder]

If we get beaten in a semi-final we'll probably be grouped with France again next year and I'd expect N.Z. and Oz to get 5th and 6th so we'd avoid all the traditional big guns at this level.With an older more experienced team next year we could have a real crack at it.

Edit: I realise I'm getting way ahead of myself.

[The Saint]

Ringrose looked good, skilful and confident with the ball in hand. Maybe there is someone capable of filling BOD's boots.

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