Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Seriously desperate now, please score Norwich

[FootballLight]

I'm surprised that none of the analysis ever mentions, Mignolet's mistakes of giving up the ball all the time, Liverpool giving up possession far too easily and also why the opposition don't capatalise on the possession they have.

[Stella]

Quick short passing from defense to midfield, then it opens up with their defense to high. I'd actually let Liverpool come to me if I were managing a team against them lot, then hit them on the counter.

[Stella]

Back to MOTD last night. Shearer thought the Sunderland pen was a 'stonewall'? I thought it was soft to say the least.

[GSC]

Has Moyes made mistakes? Sure. Didn't we all expect a steep learning curve. Would be naive to think Klopp wouldn't experience similar growing pains. If united don't improve would he be sacked after a season.

Replacing a legend like SAF was always going to be a big ask, especially given the less than vintage squad inherited. To sack a manager after 1 season in that situation is pure stupidity.

[FootballLight]

Again, yes, but there is no intensity to play like that at the back. Did you watch the game today? How many times did you see high intense football come from the back today, just watch on match of the day 2 tonight. I'd only say a couple of times they tried to.

Your managing like everyone else near the bottom then. What do you Adams said to his Norwich team in the dressing room at the start of the game? Keep yourselves in the game for 20 minutes, just invite some pressure and hit on the break if you need to, but just grow into the game and make sure your in the game by half time. All of a sudden, with high intensity that Chelsea lack and prolific finishing which ironically, Chelsea lack, Liverpool were 2-0 up inside 10 minutes and were coasting. They didn't keep the pressure on, they invited pressure and looked to hit on the break, as always. That's why Liverpool have the cutting edge that Chelsea just don't have. It works though. But, you'd lose the game if you played that way, sorry to say.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Back to MOTD last night. Shearer thought the Sunderland pen was a 'stonewall'? I thought it was soft to say the least.

I thought it was a clear cast iron penalty personally.

[FootballLight]

No it wasn't, I agree with Shearer completely. It has everything worthy of a penalty kick. There is contact from Azplicueta, he doesn't make contact with the ball, it isn't a dive and he gets the penalty. It was a foul. Altidore would have won a free kick for that on the halfway line, 100%, so why does it make a difference in the box? It doesn't. It was a 'stonewall' penalty. Good decision.

I see that a lot of times now, even though some aren't debates. A lot of the time now, people go down under some/minimal contact in the box and they ask for a penalty. The referee's say no. If there is contact, it is a foul, minimal or a huge clash. What is the excuse if there is contact? "There wasn't enough contact fella". What b*ll is that? They would win a free kick if they went down under any sort of contact on the halfway line, for a foul. So it should always be the same in the box. If there is an intent to go for the ball but no contact, it is a dive and a booking for the player wanting a penalty. That is as simple as a penalty kick should be now.

[GSC]

He catches his standing leg as he slides. It's a pen

[Stella]

It looked to me like the Sunderland player stood on the Chelsea's defenders foot? If so, then no pen. It was bad defending mind. Sliding in is always risky.

[Stella]

Premier Years 2012-2013 is on Sky. What a difference a year makes.

I'm in the minority with the penalty then. Fair enough.

[FootballLight]

It was from the back, there is CONTACT, he goes down, appeals for the penalty, it is a FOUL. It is a PENALTY. How much more of a penalty do you want it to be? But take a second look at it and then have another think.

[Hero]

Has Moyes made mistakes? Sure. Didn't we all expect a steep learning curve. Would be naive to think Klopp wouldn't experience similar growing pains. If united don't improve would he be sacked after a season.

Replacing a legend like SAF was always going to be a big ask, especially given the less than vintage squad inherited. To sack a manager after 1 season in that situation is pure stupidity.

At any other club in the world based upon the performances of this season would he still be in a job?

[Stella]

It was from the back, there is CONTACT, he goes down, appeals for the penalty, it is a FOUL. It is a PENALTY. How much more of a penalty do you want it to be? But take a second look at it and then have another think.

I've seen it few times, and can only see him stand on his foot. I an getting old and no doubt need glasses, but I see no foul.

[sportform]

Robin Van Persie has been a huge miss for Man United this season. He was an ever present in the league last season but has only played 18 times this season.

Ed Woodward needs to take some of the blame for making such a hash of the summer transfer window. Remember when he flew back early from United's Asian tour to final some big signings? No-one arrived until deadline day when then panic buyed Fellani.

I also think some of the players know they are on the way out and have played like they have been on their way out all season.

[sportform]

It was from the back, there is CONTACT, he goes down, appeals for the penalty, it is a FOUL. It is a PENALTY. How much more of a penalty do you want it to be? But take a second look at it and then have another think.

I've seen it  few times, and can only see him stand on his foot. I an getting old and no doubt need glasses, but I see no foul.

I agree. He stood on the defenders foot. Contact doesn't mean a foul has been committed. The defenders slid in front of the attacker and the attacker ran into him.

[Fernando]

I honestly from this angle can't see how that's a penalty Dave tries to block the cross by jumping infront and Altidore stands on his ankle and goes over. Not a pen or a dive just an accident for me.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Has Moyes made mistakes? Sure. Didn't we all expect a steep learning curve. Would be naive to think Klopp wouldn't experience similar growing pains. If united don't improve would he be sacked after a season.

Replacing a legend like SAF was always going to be a big ask, especially given the less than vintage squad inherited. To sack a manager after 1 season in that situation is pure stupidity.

At any other club in the world based upon the performances of this season would he still be in a job?

They've got progressively worse over the season as well.

Today he was just clueless. The sub's had no impact, he didn't know how to break down a defence of a 19 year old rookie and bloomin Alcatraz.

Its not like he's got a track record of winning cups and beating the big teams. He freezes on the big stage, its shown by Utd's home form.

Great manager for a mid table side no doubt, but he's not good enough for the top level. Utd will set themselves back years if they allow him the summer

[Stella]

Fernando's clip shows it was soft. I can see why it was given, sort of, but never a sure certain pen, for me.

[Scrumpy]

I agree with that put him in a mid table team and he can pull them up the table, he isn't the right man for the job at utd end off.

[sportform]

Man United did manage to get further in the Champions League this year then they have in the last two seasons. They have to back Moyes this summer or they will be on a slippery slide downwards.

[Stella]

Utd had it pretty easy until bayern came along.

[Fernando]

Personally i can't say id trust Moyes to spend the amount of money they reckon United have over the summer. This is a guy that can't seem to get his side motivated and look short of ideas if a team sits back. Rooney has gone back into his shell since signing his deal like he doesn't have to try anymore and just collect his paypacket.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Has Moyes made mistakes? Sure. Didn't we all expect a steep learning curve. Would be naive to think Klopp wouldn't experience similar growing pains. If united don't improve would he be sacked after a season.

Replacing a legend like SAF was always going to be a big ask, especially given the less than vintage squad inherited. To sack a manager after 1 season in that situation is pure stupidity.

At any other club in the world based upon the performances of this season would he still be in a job?

Are United meant to be like "any other club?"?

[FootballLight]

There was contact, it was a foul and a penalty no doubt. You can tell because of Altidore's body language and the movement of his feet. He stamps down there as he knows Azpilicueta is going to dive in, like he did. He tried to turn back onto his left foot to slide the ball across the box for a tap in for the man running into the box. In the resulting challenge, as Altidore had put his foot down, he did stand on his leg, his foot went down just before Azpilicueta got his foot there, which meant that Azpilicueta caught Altidore, had taen his standing leg, so there was contact and it was a penalty. Look at it a few times if you must, but keep reading this, you will soon understand that what I've said is correct. I looked at it at least 8 times before coming to this conclusion because I knew what debate there was behind it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

They screwed up one major window under him, then he bought a world class player in January. Fellaini was a panic buy in the summer, but you can see why he bought him. They needed something in midfield, he went to a player he knew and a player he knew wanted to move.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

There was contact, it was a foul and a penalty no doubt. You can tell because of Altidore's body language and the movement of his feet. He stamps down there as he knows Azpilicueta is going to dive in, like he did. He tried to turn back onto his left foot to slide the ball across the box for a tap in for the man running into the box. In the resulting challenge, as Altidore had put his foot down, he did stand on his leg, his foot went down just before Azpilicueta got his foot there, which meant that Azpilicueta caught Altidore, had taen his standing leg, so there was contact and it was a penalty. Look at it a few times if you must, but keep reading this, you will soon understand that what I've said is correct. I looked at it at least 8 times before coming to this conclusion because I knew what debate there was behind it.

If Azpi is standing and puts his foot forward, then Altidore stood on it, would you call it a pen? I think you're being influenced by the slide

[FootballLight]

Look again DZ. It is Azpilicueta's left leg that hits his achilles of Altidore's which makes him fall. Because his left leg is in an unnatural position and it then swings round once again. It is hard to describe, but it's the best way of saying it.

[Hero]

The whole 'Utd give managers time' though, it's only relevant to one manager in their entire history. Did Wilf McGuinness get 5 years after Matt Busby went to not the board. No he got 18 months and Busby had to take back over again.
Did Frank O'Farrell the guy who then took over when Busby once again stepped aside last long? No another 18 month stretch. And these were in times when it wasn't all short term immediate results as it is now.

[Stella]

The Sunderland player slips? It was clearly a soft pen.

Back to Utd. Moyes will imo, get another season. Not sure he will do much better next season though. He looks like a small fish, in the pacific.

[FootballLight]

Ok then, he slipped after all. 

[FootballLight]

Another needless discussion on Moyes underachievement at United this season.. *Sigh*  

[GSC]

Again, if United finish 7th under Klopp a year from now does he get sacked within a year?

Most accepted it would take time to rebuild yet want to sack managers after 1 season

[Hammersmith harrier]

I doubt that would happen GSC, it's more the fact the team has regressed so far under Moyes that leads to me wanting him sacked, the minimum requirement was a title challenge that didn't happen.

[Hero]

The whole 'Utd give managers time' though, it's only relevant to one manager in their entire history. Did Wilf McGuinness get 5 years after Matt Busby went to not the board. No he got 18 months and Busby had to take back over again.
Did Frank O'Farrell the guy who then took over when Busby once again stepped aside last long? No another 18 month stretch. And these were in times when it wasn't all short term immediate results as it is now.

[Fernando]

It's not a surprise you want him sacked when you set unrealistic targets like that HH. United need a rebuild from the ground up that being i said i don't believe Moyes is the man to do it.

[FootballLight]

Lets face it. Moyes doesn't seem to be under any pressure from the board, they have given him the full backing and Klopp's name isn't being mentioned at all to replace Moyes, should he leave. That is, only from the tabloids though, but even still. Moyes is the United manager now, not Klopp. Let him continue with his rebuilding job.

[Hero]

Is it unrealistic to expect a side that has not finished outside of the top three for 20 years to not being challenging for the title? I think most would have expected 4th at worst but to have gained just 1 win against the 6 clubs above them this season is really poor.

[Ent]

Is it unrealistic to expect a side that has not finished outside of the top three for 20 years to not being challenging for the title? I think most would have expected 4th at worst but to have gained just 1 win against the 6 clubs above them this season is really poor.

Not at all, it's a disgrace that a side who won the league can invest 65 million in new players and finish 7th with 11 defeats and counting.

[Guest]

It's not a surprise you want him sacked when you set unrealistic targets like that HH. United need a rebuild from the ground up that being i said i don't believe Moyes is the man to do it.

I think the champions should at least put up a fight to keep their championship so it's not unrealistic to expect them to at least competently compete.

Did we do a predictions thread at the start of the season? I'd be interested to see what everybody put.

I'll have a quick browse through the threads.

[Guest]

Not one predictor had Utd outside of the top 4.

https://www.606v2.com/t47056-barclays-premier-league-13-14-thread?highlight=Barclays+Premier+League+13+14+Thread

[Ent]

We definitely should have challenged, don't think anyone saw it being this bad.

Lot of rumours moyes is leaving amicably in the summer. He looked more relaxed in his interview today.

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https://www.606v2.com/viewtopic.forum?t=53303

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