Radical rule change...the one play sin bin

I wonder.....what if....each time a side is awarded a penalty they are given a choice. ..either they can kick for goal (if in range) or they have the option of having the offending player sin binned for ONE PLAY ONLY. ..so you go for the line out and have one play against 14 men.

Perhaps scrum offences are exempt because it would take to long to swap props...and if you take a quick tap then you forego the option.

But it would be an interesting option...would you go for the 3 points or would you play against 14 men for a couple of mins....if you are awarded a penalty in your own 22, you would certainly take the brief sin bin option and attack from the next line out. .so to clarify, every penalty means the offending player is sin binned for one play, unless the opposition kick for goal. ...would this improve the game?

Everyone would take the three points. One play is not generally enough time to exploit the advantage of a sin bin (and 3 of the supposed 7 point advantage generally come from the penalty kick after the bin)

True if the penalty is an easy one. ..but for every other penalty it would encourage attacking rugby wouldn't it? We all cheer a kick to the corner...there would simply be more of them

I agree with poorfour, one play isn't enough, building an advantage with one man will generally take more than one play.

Defences are organised enough to negate one play.

Usually you will find most tries come from counter attacks or open play, structured rugby from one play does not outweigh 3 points.

Full marks for some new thinking around penalising foul play....

No marks for idea, I'm affriad...

Its just not a good idea. It would slow games down, as players go off and on for sin bins. It doesn't address the concept of a Sin Bin, aka a Yellow Card (rugby concept that is of course), that the offence is dangerous enough or cynical enough to warrant a cooling off period (and not of so severe to deserve red). What about multiple Yellows, at the moment 2 means RED, you idea could mean multiple Yellows, for instance Hartley would have seen RED (hang on... let me think about that a bit.. only joking)... and with players going on and off it will start becoming like American Football...

I understand your thoughts, but no, not practical...

Also, I don't think the existing system is broke, its just down to needing more consistent refereeing, which your idea doesn't address....

I do think yellow cards should be accumalative over a season though.

this would be unworkable in my opinion. i do think the sin bin is too long though and should only be 5 minutes as it often changes games

Scratch wrote:this would be unworkable in my opinion. i do think the sin bin is too long though and should only be 5 minutes as it often changes games

But surely that's the point... If the penalty doesn't have a chance of penalising the offending team, then what's the point.

I think the yellow card is about right. It's just consistency in the way it's dished out is what's needed.

No9 wrote:

Scratch wrote:this would be unworkable in my opinion. i do think the sin bin is too long though and should only be 5 minutes as it often changes games

But surely that's the point... If the penalty doesn't have a chance of penalising the offending team, then what's the point.

I think the yellow card is about right. It's just consistency in the way it's dished out is what's needed.

i agree but the field is not even is it? and i completely agree on the consistency with which it is handed out….perhaps it should be a TMO review only decision.

If teams can't exploit the advantage in 5 minutes then the equality should be restored, just my thoughts, i have seen so many games changed on the backs of a yellow card and this means the ref is impacting the game's outcome with decisions…a 3 point penalty kick is not often the difference between 2 teams whereas sending off a player is.

Scratch wrote:

No9 wrote:

Scratch wrote:this would be unworkable in my opinion. i do think the sin bin is too long though and should only be 5 minutes as it often changes games

But surely that's the point... If the penalty doesn't have a chance of penalising the offending team, then what's the point.

I think the yellow card is about right. It's just consistency in the way it's dished out is what's needed.

i agree but the field is not even is it? and i completely agree on the consistency with which it is handed out….perhaps it should be a TMO review only decision.

If teams can't exploit the advantage in 5 minutes then the equality should be restored, just my thoughts, i have seen so many games changed on the backs of a yellow card and this means the ref is impacting the game's outcome with decisions…a 3 point penalty kick is not often the difference between 2 teams whereas sending off a player is.

Not sure I really follow what you are saying. If a foul is committed the ref awards a penalty. If the ref deems the offence as dangerous, cynical or repeat offence he issues a yellow, which is a step up from a penalty. If the offence is repeated again, ie. another yellow or an offence is very dangerous or reckless he can award a red.

This escalating penalty system, where the penalty fits the crime is in my opinion spot on. Again, my only grudge is consistency if applying it, as some refs seem to be unable to apply consistency in the same game. But the system works...

As for the comment of accumulating yellows to next game, don't agree with that as it's not football. Football can do this as the game is far far more simplistic and not open to so much referee interpretation.

guess what i am saying no 9 is that i would like to see more pens, fewer cards and a TMO/Ref based decision on yellows with a shorter time off the pitch.

I think that , because of the inconsistency of cards being issued, if they were 5 minutes they would be less impactful but still give an advantage to the side with more players. if that side cannot exploit that so be it. In my view this would mean that single decisions by inconsistent refs would have less impact on the outcome of a game

How about a system with no penalty kicks at goal. The posts are only for drop goals and conversions. A team is penalised by being moved 10m back, happens enough then the offending players start getting 5 mins off. So if you are bending the rules to stop conceding a try, you'll quickly be down to 13 or so men - the try will probably come soon after. Instead of never being scored because the opposition took the 3 points.

Guess I'd just like to see a rugby contest (running, passing and tackling), not a kicking at goal contest.

Manky-Flanker wrote:How about a system with no penalty kicks at goal. The posts are only for drop goals and conversions. A team is penalised by being moved 10m back, happens enough then the offending players start getting 5 mins off. So if you are bending the rules to stop conceding a try, you'll quickly be down to 13 or so men - the try will probably come soon after. Instead of never being scored because the opposition took the 3 points.

Guess I'd just like to see a rugby contest (running, passing and tackling), not a kicking at goal contest.

could work….i don't object to pen kicking though, i think it adds a variable to the game but, reflecting on your idea and what i wrote above, how often do we see games closed out by last minute penalties?

It's a good topic because there's so many games when a team is consistently penalising (minor pens) but the ref has not quite been pushed over the edge into YC territory.

I'm wondering, is there an unwritten standard number of pens that a ref goes by that can be tolerated before a YC is issued? Or is it dependent on the ref, his mood on the day, annoyingness of the captain, etc. I gather YCs are issued for repeat offending, but how about 3 strikes (or whatever's practical) and you're in the bin. Put a number on it.

Dependant on the Ref, was watching a game few weeks back and the ref gave 3 final warnings lol. The commentators were just laughing socks off at the way he handled it.

I am a huge NHL fan, the 3 minute penalty works very well in a 60 minute game. Still think 10 is too long.

ebop wrote:It's a good topic because there's so many games when a team is consistently penalising (minor pens) but the ref has not quite been pushed over the edge into YC territory.

I'm wondering, is there an unwritten standard number of pens that a ref goes by that can be tolerated before a YC is issued?  Or is it dependent on the ref, his mood on the day, annoyingness of the captain, etc.  I gather YCs are issued for repeat offending, but how about 3 strikes (or whatever's practical) and you're in the bin. Put a number on it.

Problem is, smart teams will take turns infringing. So no indivdual player commits a 3rd infringment, however your entire pack for example has infringed twice (and trying to look innocent and shocked).

Maybe 3 strikes per "infringment type"? Takes the arbitrary decision away from a ref, as to when there has been too high a penalty count.