Who is to blame at Man Utd?

Last night saw a new low point at Manchester Utd, a 2-0 defeat to Olympiacos in the last 16 of the Champions League. This follows a season where they're adrift in the Premier League, a league in which they've not finished lower than 3rd in over 20 years. Out of both domestic cups and unless a miracle occurs in 3 weeks at Old Trafford in the return leg and the season is over.
But who's to blame for the state Utd are in?

Moyes?
He took on a title winning side, yes it was ageing but it was a side that knew how to win, it had belief and knew how to grind out results when it was having a bad day at the office.

The Glazers?
The fans have never been enamoured with the owners, the debt that they brought to the club and years of reconciling that combined with payouts to them whilst City and Chelsea spent big money to surpass them with squad strength.

Ed Woodward?
He got on a plane in the summer to tie up a huge deal, 4 weeks later on deadline day we paid over the odds for Fellaini, is the fact we didn't strengthen in clearly lacking areas his fault?

Sir Alex Ferguson?
He got out at the right time, he named his heir successor and he left a squad with guys that would struggle to get into lesser sides such as Cleverly, Smalling, Buttner etc whilst others such as Young, Nani, Valencia all look shadows of what they were built up to be when originally signed.

The players?
Last night they looked apathetic, clueless and passionless. This was a last 16 game in the CL, not a pre-season friendly yet they appeared to be turning up for their £300k a week (in Rooney's case) salary to get outperformed by what many considered the weakest side left in the competition. Utd do not have a golden right to win games, but the team themselves needs to look at their desire to succeed.

Well they all need to take some blame!

I'd say Moyes - 25%
Woodward - 35%
Players - 20%
Glazers/SAF - other 20%

I think Sir Alex as well as Moyes need to take the blame.

Sir Alex Ferguson-Not because he got out at the right time, not because he left Moyes with a weak squad that just isn't good enough for a title-challenge but strong enough for a Top-4 finish, if not Top-3, but because he 'chose' the wrong man! A team like Man United does not deserve to be beaten by Stoke, or the weakest team remaining in the Champions League. Martinez has already showed why Moyes is the wrong choice. He should have gone with someone with more experience of managing a top club, at least a regular at the Champions League. Mourinho... maybe?

David Moyes- Transformed a relegation-threatened side into a Top 6/7 side, but that's pretty much it. And although he has helped in the Evolution of Rooney, Pienaar etc, he has been proven as a worse manager by someone whose side wen't down the previous year, with(almost) the same squad.

For all Fergie's faults, he generally got it right way more times than he got it wrong so I struggle to see how he got his choice of successor so cripplingly, shockingly, ar$e about face wrong. There simply has to be more to it than choosing the wrong man.

Are we suggesting Fergie managed to convince everyone at the Club that Moyes was the right man for the job and not a single person could see a flaw in his plan.

IMO the reason for Man Utd's failure can be laid at Fergie's door but not by anything he's done. It's his absence. The players don't respect/fear Moyes the same way they do with Ferguson. He hasn't done anything to earn a reputation to be respected other than managing to not get sacked for ten years (something that may be in serious jeopardy in the coming weeks). He doesn't strike fear into their hearts the way you know Fergie did. At half time yesterday, if Fergie was in charge you'd have heard him bellowing over the din of the crowd but quite apart from Moyes' tactical ineptitude, there isn't anyone in charge that makes the team fear for their place.

A bloke on my FB has just stated that Moyes will be leaving by mutual consent. This may be bo..ocks of course.

It's true Stella....it's just a matter of when he leaves.

DAVE667 wrote:It's true Stella....it's just a matter of when he leaves.

Ha yes. Maybe not by 'mutual consent'?

Rumour been started by a city trader apparently. Bookies have had him from 11/1 to about 7/4, Pepe Mel still favourite to go next last time I saw.

Not that it matters, bookies are reactionary to money. And stupid people can blindly bet a lot of money.

its a combination of everything isnt it.

but ultimately you can only blame the owners and the fact that when you are at the top there is one way to go..

Its how they deal with the problems caused.

Not gonna blame moyes. He wasnt good enough in the first place.. Cant blame fergie for suggesting him either. But Its ultimately on the owners

Frankly, I think there is enough blame for all of them. Moyes has not won over the players and got them playing for him. His tactics and rotations have also been poor. Fellaini doesn't fit this club and if he bought Fellaini he should at least use him in the role he is more comfortable in, the same also applies to Mata. Sir Alex picked a manager who just lacked the CV, gravitas, and experience of running a big club. The United players are not playing with the same intensity for Moyes as they did for SAF, you play for the shirt and a lot of them aren't doing that right now. Woodward failed to adequately bring in the quality players in the last window while everyone else strengthened. The Glazers have not put in enough money into signing quality players for quite some time. Before the Mata deal they had basically one huge purchase RVP while bringing he Zaha's and the Young's of the world. It is a perfect sheet storm, and it shows how fine the margins are between success and failure at the very top of the game.

Bobby Charlton.

Vetoed Mourinho (Ferguson's actual choice) because of his behaviour and thoughts of bringing in all his own backroom staff.

Hired Moyes and allowed him to bring in all his own backroom staff.

#headsgone

Ent wrote:Bobby Charlton.

Vetoed Mourinho (Ferguson's actual choice) because of his behaviour and thoughts of bringing in all his own backroom staff.

Hired Moyes and allowed him to bring in all his own backroom staff.

#headsgone

united needed mourinho because someone with his arrogance and confidence would be able to handle taking over fergusen and would not be afriad to make tough tactical decisions etc.

I dont think Mourinho was Ferguson's actual choice and I think you're taking some reports out of complete context.

Mourinho would have been the better, safer short term choice, but Manchester United want to hold themselves above antics like his and I respect them for that

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I dont think Mourinho was Ferguson's actual choice and I think you're taking some reports out of complete context.

Mourinho would have been the better, safer short term choice, but Manchester United want to hold themselves above antics like his and I respect them for that

and instead decided to let the less than impressive Rooney pulled their pants down and royally screw them #lovestruckfools

David Moyes has just told his players that they will definitely be appearing in a European Competition next year, even if he has to write the song himself!  

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I dont think Mourinho was Ferguson's actual choice and I think you're taking some reports out of complete context.

Mourinho would have been the better, safer short term choice, but Manchester United want to hold themselves above antics like his and I respect them for that

But Mourinho did state in an interview that he is at Chelsea long-term.
Yes, agreed. United don't want to associate themselves with his antics mindgames that make people focus on his 'outragious' 'stupid' 'silly' 'arrogant' comments, instead of looking at the team's obvious weaknesses, or bad peformances. He deflects the pressure off his players and focuses it on himself, unlike Moyes, who it seems has actually played a part in the sudden decrease in performance levels of his players.

Lets be honest with one thing Dolph, did you or me or anybody expect Manchester United to not challenge for a Top 4 spot?  
No.
Instead, I read on many sites as well as forums that Man Utd are going to finish third, behind City and Chelsea.

Bottomline- With the team he has at his disposal, he should be able to at least challenge for a Top-4 spot. That Manchester United would not be able to defend the league title was somewhat expected, but such a poor show wasn't.   

BlueCoverman wrote:David Moyes has just told his players that they will definitely be appearing in a European Competition next year, even if he has to write the song himself!  

Well, Man Utd would play in the Europa League (should also win it like Chelsea did) next year.

DAVE667 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I dont think Mourinho was Ferguson's actual choice and I think you're taking some reports out of complete context.

Mourinho would have been the better, safer short term choice, but Manchester United want to hold themselves above antics like his and I respect them for that

and instead decided to let the less than impressive Rooney pulled their pants down and royally screw them #lovestruckfools

Couldn't agree with you more mate  

DAVE667 wrote:For all Fergie's faults, he generally got it right way more times than he got it wrong so I struggle to see how he got his choice of successor so cripplingly, shockingly, ar$e about face wrong. There simply has to be more to it than choosing the wrong man.

Are we suggesting Fergie managed to convince everyone at the Club that Moyes was the right man for the job and not a single person could see a flaw in his plan.

IMO the reason for Man Utd's failure can be laid at Fergie's door but not by anything he's done. It's his absence. The players don't respect/fear Moyes the same way they do with Ferguson. He hasn't done anything to earn a reputation to be respected other than managing to not get sacked for ten years (something that may be in serious jeopardy in the coming weeks). He doesn't strike fear into their hearts the way you know Fergie did. At half time yesterday, if Fergie was in charge you'd have heard him bellowing over the din of the crowd but quite apart from Moyes' tactical ineptitude, there isn't anyone in charge that makes the team fear for their place.

Never said anything about his other decisions mate. He is one of the best ever.
Er.. that does prove that Moyes is the right choice, right?
Even SAF himself could not have guessed he would turn out to be let's just say not what he expected. I mean, the man's got a reputation for getting the best out of his players and yet he didn't think Barkley was good enough, but more importantly, he did not get the best out of the current Man Utd squad, did he?  
He's got a reputation for Providing stability to a club with a limited budget and transforming them from relegation battlers to Europa League contenders, yet he destabilised Man Utd by playing players out of position(like Mata), selecting the wrong starting line-ups, etc.
Can you answer some questions of mine?
1. Why are Everton looking better than they did under Moyes, although they are managed by a manager who couldn't even save his team from relegation?
2. Why are they looking like genuine Top-4 contenders in the next season?
3. Why did Everton finish in the Top-4 just once in 10 years under Moyes?
4. Why couldn't Everton ever beat a top-4 team under Moyes?
5. Why did Everton look like the first team to take all three points from Mourinho at home in the league(had they attacked more)?
6. Why were Everton the best team to face Chelsea at the Bridge?
7. Why did everton manage to beat Chelsea & Man United in the same season?
'The chosen one' is just an average manager who got lucky.
Jose Mourinho, on the other hand is one of the greatest managers alive, according to SAF himself.

You're saying they shouldnt have kept Rooney? Get the scouse goggles off, you know thats a good idea and I'm not sure you can escape kettle/black comparisons with "bitey want leavey" Suarez issue in the summer.

Pierce Quincy wrote:
But Mourinho did state in an interview that he is at Chelsea long-term.
Yes, agreed. United don't want to associate themselves with his antics mindgames that make people focus on his 'outragious' 'stupid' 'silly' 'arrogant' comments, instead of looking at the team's obvious weaknesses, or bad peformances. He deflects the pressure off his players and focuses it on himself, unlike Moyes, who it seems has actually played a part in the sudden decrease in performance levels of his players.

Lets be honest with one thing Dolph, did you or me or anybody expect Manchester United to not challenge for a Top 4 spot?  
No.
Instead, I read on many sites as well as forums that Man Utd are going to finish third, behind City and Chelsea.

Bottomline- With the team he has at his disposal, he should be able to at least challenge for a Top-4 spot. That Manchester United would not be able to defend the league title was somewhat expected, but such a poor show wasn't.   

I'm not saying he's done well, not my argument.

But I do enjoy you trusting Mourinho's word. He says he'll stay long term? Thats nice, he says a lot of stuff.

I'm no Manchester United fan, they are a machine that many enjoy seeing conquered. But they have a spirit of class that they try and uphold. They let it slip sometimes, as do Liverpool, but Mourinho doesnt care for the creed or history of a club. Mourinho cares about himself.

He may well deflect from his team performances, although he hasnt done it very well as people continue to attack their weaknesses up front and he gets constantly called up for not only being a berk but also trying to hide weaknesses. Even Allardyce just laughed at him for the 19th century stuff, knowing it was bowlox.

Rightly or wrongly, its the approach United took. I respect them for it. They wanted to build the way football clubs used to. They looked at Mourinho and probably thought "success at what cost?"

Like me and you, the board had no expectation of how Moyes would start at United. Whilst hindsight says "look at Moyes now", hindsight wasnt available before the case.

May I have this dance?

Pierce Quincy wrote:
Can you answer some questions of mine?
1. Why are Everton looking better than they did under Moyes, although they are managed by a manager who couldn't even save his team from relegation?
2. Why are they looking like genuine Top-4 contenders in the next season?
3. Why did Everton finish in the Top-4 just once in 10 years under Moyes?
4. Why couldn't Everton ever beat a top-4 team under Moyes?
5. Why did Everton look like the first team to take all three points from Mourinho at home in the league(had they attacked more)?
6. Why were Everton the best team to face Chelsea at the Bridge?
7. Why did everton manage to beat Chelsea & Man United in the same season?
'The chosen one' is just an average manager who got lucky.
Jose Mourinho, on the other hand is one of the greatest managers alive, according to SAF himself.

1. All the glory of 7th
2. Questionable, they dont look better than any of the teams above them
3. Because they're Everton and the juggernauts are what they are
4. I doubt he really cares, he probably just cares where they finish each year.
5. They lost and WBA surely looked better.
6. Above
7. They havent managed to beat West Brom, do points count against Chelsea?

At the end of the day, they are currently behind United in the table. This is a United team some call embarrassing and an Everton team being described as the best to play at Stamford Bridge this year. Go figure, eh?

Im not sure what I'm arguing at this point. Still time n all that anyway. I dont entirely disagree with you or anything, devils advocate n such

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:
But Mourinho did state in an interview that he is at Chelsea long-term.
Yes, agreed. United don't want to associate themselves with his antics mindgames that make people focus on his 'outragious' 'stupid' 'silly' 'arrogant' comments, instead of looking at the team's obvious weaknesses, or bad peformances. He deflects the pressure off his players and focuses it on himself, unlike Moyes, who it seems has actually played a part in the sudden decrease in performance levels of his players.

Lets be honest with one thing Dolph, did you or me or anybody expect Manchester United to not challenge for a Top 4 spot?  
No.
Instead, I read on many sites as well as forums that Man Utd are going to finish third, behind City and Chelsea.

Bottomline- With the team he has at his disposal, he should be able to at least challenge for a Top-4 spot. That Manchester United would not be able to defend the league title was somewhat expected, but such a poor show wasn't.   

I'm not saying he's done well, not my argument.

But I do enjoy you trusting Mourinho's word. He says he'll stay long term? Thats nice, he says a lot of stuff.

I'm no Manchester United fan, they are a machine that many enjoy seeing conquered. But they have a spirit of class that they try and uphold. They let it slip sometimes, as do Liverpool, but Mourinho doesnt care for the creed or history of a club. Mourinho cares about himself.

He may well deflect from his team performances, although he hasnt done it very well as people continue to attack their weaknesses up front and he gets constantly called up for not only being a berk but also trying to hide weaknesses. Even Allardyce just laughed at him for the 19th century stuff, knowing it was bowlox.

Rightly or wrongly, its the approach United took. I respect them for it. They wanted to build the way football clubs used to. They looked at Mourinho and probably thought "success at what cost?"

Like me and you, the board had no expectation of how Moyes would start at United. Whilst hindsight says "look at Moyes now", hindsight wasnt available before the case.

Yes. They wanted to build the way clubs used to. But you can't deny the fact that they are performing under-par this season and Moyes has to take at least a little bit of blame for that. Isn't it?
Yes, I admit that Mourinho is a berp, an a$$hole.
But he has won 3 CLs (twice with rich cubs but once with Porto)
Two successive league titles with Chelsea as well as Inter.
Fastest manager to reach 100 PL wins.
Hasn't lost a league game at home for...

But then he is also a "Special One" and Moyes isn't!
As a proud chelsea supporter I would like to say:
IN MOYES WE TRUST  

Oh of course, he should take some blame. But its laced with enough reasons to warrant him given a real chance to rejuvenate them.

Dolph- "You're saying they shouldnt have kept Rooney? Get the scouse goggles off, you know thats a good idea and I'm not sure you can escape kettle/black comparisons with "bitey want leavey" Suarez issue in the summer."
I never said that did I, sugar?
I think rooney is a fantastic player and is playin' just fine.
No team can afford to let him go.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Oh of course, he should take some blame. But its laced with enough reasons to warrant him given a real chance to rejuvenate them.

The fact of the matter is that you're right. There are certain plus points even in this situation. And I never said he should be sacked, which I am sure you know.
Give the man a chance! Some bad results should not lead to Immediate sacking.

Pierce Quincy wrote:Dolph- [size=16.516515731811523]"You're saying they shouldnt have kept Rooney? Get the scouse goggles off, you know thats a good idea and I'm not sure you can escape kettle/black comparisons with "bitey want leavey" Suarez issue in the summer."[/size]
I never said that did I, sugar?
I think rooney is a fantastic player and is playin' just fine.
No team can afford to let him go.

My bad, I didnt quote Dave like I meant to. He'll find it, he has the eyes of a kestrel

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:Dolph- [size=16.51]"You're saying they shouldnt have kept Rooney? Get the scouse goggles off, you know thats a good idea and I'm not sure you can escape kettle/black comparisons with "bitey want leavey" Suarez issue in the summer."[/size]
I never said that did I, sugar?
I think rooney is a fantastic player and is playin' just fine.
No team can afford to let him go.

My bad, I didnt quote Dave like I meant to. He'll find it, he has the eyes of a kestrel

Whilst Suarez's troubles were largely brought about by his own antics and it's something he readily admits (he couldn't really do much else though) Rooney's gripes seems somewhat diaphanous in comparison. He's already held them to ransom by claiming they "lack ambition" and got a nice big pay rise out of it, has been embroiled in a "I didn't say I wanted to leave"/"Oh yes you did" spat with Ferguson and intimated that he wanted to go leave the club only to claim his heart was always at Utd when Jose flat stated that Rooney didn't figure in his plans (of course the £300k an hour wage had nothing to do with it) His on-field performances have hardly convinced anyone it's money well spent when you consider the way Suarez has endeavoured to atone for past misdeeds and it's reflected in the attitude he's shown on the pitch.

Fergie's mantra was "No-one is bigger than the club" yet a mere eight months later, Rooney's singly handedly trying to bankrupt them before the end of the tax year. For that much money I'd expect more than "Rooney's playing just fine"

DAVE667 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:Dolph- [size=16.363636016845703]"You're saying they shouldnt have kept Rooney? Get the scouse goggles off, you know thats a good idea and I'm not sure you can escape kettle/black comparisons with "bitey want leavey" Suarez issue in the summer."[/size]
I never said that did I, sugar?
I think rooney is a fantastic player and is playin' just fine.
No team can afford to let him go.

My bad, I didnt quote Dave like I meant to. He'll find it, he has the eyes of a kestrel

Whilst Suarez's troubles were largely brought about by his own antics and it's something he readily admits (he couldn't really do much else though) Rooney's gripes seems somewhat diaphanous in comparison. He's already held them to ransom by claiming they "lack ambition" and got a nice big pay rise out of it, has been embroiled in a "I didn't say I wanted to leave"/"Oh yes you did" spat with Ferguson and intimated that he wanted to go leave the club only to claim his heart was always at Utd when Jose flat stated that Rooney didn't figure in his plans (of course the £300k an hour wage had nothing to do with it) His on-field performances have hardly convinced anyone it's money well spent when you consider the way Suarez has endeavoured to atone for past misdeeds and it's reflected in the attitude he's shown on the pitch.

Fergie's mantra was "No-one is bigger than the club" yet a mere eight months later, Rooney's singly handedly trying to bankrupt them before the end of the tax year. For that much money I'd expect more than "Rooney's playing just fine"

Chill out Davey Dear!  
Well I said it in a response to a comment that was misquoted and was meant for you.
And my point in that comment was that I never implied Rooney should go. That's it.
And whether Rooney delivers is Man Utd's problem.
And you're right in saying "No-one is bigger than the club" especially if it is Man Utd.
Suarez has totally redeemed himself IMO. Although he hasn't been scoring goals recently, he still is playing fantastic football. His contribution to the attack with well-timed through passes and his way of orchestrating the attack just shows how good he is.

Don't tell Dave to chill, me old son.

Isn't Dave a serial killer?

Well he's just called someone a "pig ignorant arrogant old c**t" on the off-topic board; I'll say he's just warming up then!

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:
But Mourinho did state in an interview that he is at Chelsea long-term.
Yes, agreed. United don't want to associate themselves with his antics mindgames that make people focus on his 'outragious' 'stupid' 'silly' 'arrogant' comments, instead of looking at the team's obvious weaknesses, or bad peformances. He deflects the pressure off his players and focuses it on himself, unlike Moyes, who it seems has actually played a part in the sudden decrease in performance levels of his players.

Lets be honest with one thing Dolph, did you or me or anybody expect Manchester United to not challenge for a Top 4 spot?  
No.
Instead, I read on many sites as well as forums that Man Utd are going to finish third, behind City and Chelsea.

Bottomline- With the team he has at his disposal, he should be able to at least challenge for a Top-4 spot. That Manchester United would not be able to defend the league title was somewhat expected, but such a poor show wasn't.   

I'm not saying he's done well, not my argument.

But I do enjoy you trusting Mourinho's word. He says he'll stay long term? Thats nice, he says a lot of stuff.

I'm no Manchester United fan, they are a machine that many enjoy seeing conquered. But they have a spirit of class that they try and uphold. They let it slip sometimes, as do Liverpool, but Mourinho doesnt care for the creed or history of a club. Mourinho cares about himself.

He may well deflect from his team performances, although he hasnt done it very well as people continue to attack their weaknesses up front and he gets constantly called up for not only being a berk but also trying to hide weaknesses. Even Allardyce just laughed at him for the 19th century stuff, knowing it was bowlox.

Rightly or wrongly, its the approach United took. I respect them for it. They wanted to build the way football clubs used to. They looked at Mourinho and probably thought "success at what cost?"

Like me and you, the board had no expectation of how Moyes would start at United. Whilst hindsight says "look at Moyes now", hindsight wasnt available before the case.

David Moyes was at Everton for ten long years. Teams like Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Swansea and even lowly Wigan Athletic (who beat his Everton at Goodison in the quarter finals) won trophies during David Moyes' time at Everton, and all of the above with less money than he had to spend. What does that tell you about his ambition, his ability? Doesn't that sound warning bells? Still Moyes is 'The Right One' I'm not implying Mourinho should have been given the choice, but there were other managers that had actually won something substantial. If he was still at Everton they would be mid-table now. Like 9th or 10th. I have always believed that David Moyes is an average manager, goot at best, but certainly not near good enough to manage a club like United. Frankly, I think he got the job because of his nationality(no offence intended)

I'm all nice and calm Quincy, fear not.

I found it hard to defend some of Suarez's antics and was less than convinced as to his dedication to the club if the off-season. However, I don't think I've ever been happier to be proved wrong given the way he's conducted himself since his return. Whilst there's always going to be an element of unswerving support for one of your own, I don't see my criticism of Rooney or Utd as being solely down to "scouse goggles" as you so beautifully put it.

By acquiescing to Rooney's demands, Utd are leaving themselves open to a horde of players demanding parity of at least a sizeable increase in their own wages. At least Suarez had done something to deserve his increase whereas I'm struggling to see what exactly Rooney's done for his pay hike.

When Utd shoot themselves in the foot it seems they like to use a cannon and take their whole leg off.

Stella wrote:Isn't Dave a serial killer?

Why do you sat that Stella?

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:Isn't Dave a serial killer?

Why do you sat that Stella?

Because he is.

Does anyone else feel that Suarez got a bit too much stick for the biting incident. yes it's a bit girly, and cowardly, but I doubt Ivanovic hardly felt it after the initial shock. If say he would have bitten his face and took a piece of flesh out of his cheek, then ban him, but it wasn't really like that.

I find two footed lunges with no intention of playing the ball a hundred times worse, and dangerous.

No, Suarez was right to be lambasted for biting. It's what children do when they lose control and what thugs do in street fights. It has no place in football and even as a Liverpool fan, you have to punish offences of that nature. You can't accidentally bite anyone whereas there will always be doubt as to whether or not a player has deliberately intended to harm another professional.

Suarez accepted his punishment and whilst the press were their usual ridiculously OTT self, the F.A. acted and then moved on but it's not something to be easily forgotten even if Ivanovic has forgiven. I'm sure Suarez will have enough cringes when he thinks about it without being reminded every five minutes though.

I'd rather we lost the insidious "professional foul" elements in the game like shirt tugging, diving, tripping, time wasting etc (Petr Cech was wasting time with about 30 minutes to go last night....bloody ridiculous)

I see your point, and when I say 'he got to much stick' I was referring to the media. It msut have been shown 1000 times on sky sports. Let me tell you though, there's pelnty of players who stamp, leap in, etc on purpose. There isn't a place for biting, but I'd rather be bitten on the arm, than have my leg broken by a Kevin Muscat.

I called it scouse goggles, but mainly to provoke the lion   

But it does seem similar. I think Fergie did what he did to Rooney as one last dig. He got the final word in what was clearly a fractious relationship.

Rooney has settled down since Moyes has been there. Hes been notably their best player this year. And it wasnt really a reward for Rooney in the end. Whilst obviously Rooney loves the pay rise, he is too valuable to them at this stage to let go. And the new contract is cheaper than a replacement.

The Daily Mail generally struggle to write an article about Suarez without mentioning that he "received a 10 match ban for biting Chelsea's Branislav Ivanovic" as if there's a danger that if people aren't aware of it, Suarez will sink his teeth into the next person he sees. Having said that, they've not mentioned it in an article today referring to his new knitted boots but have seen fit to mention that on the day he wears them for the first time he'll be renewing his rivalry with Patrice Evra.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I called it scouse goggles, but mainly to provoke the lion   

But it does seem similar. I think Fergie did what he did to Rooney as one last dig. He got the final word in what was clearly a fractious relationship.

Rooney has settled down since Moyes has been there. Hes been notably their best player this year. And it wasnt really a reward for Rooney in the end. Whilst obviously Rooney loves the pay rise, he is too valuable to them at this stage to let go. And the new contract is cheaper than a replacement.

Not much of an accomplishment this season. Not being funny but at 42 years old, there's a chance that I could play for Utd in their next match and perform better than some of them have recently

DAVE667 wrote:I'm all nice and calm Quincy, fear not.

I found it hard to defend some of Suarez's antics and was less than convinced as to his dedication to the club if the off-season. However, I don't think I've ever been happier to be proved wrong given the way he's conducted himself since his return. Whilst there's always going to be an element of unswerving support for one of your own, I don't see my criticism of Rooney or Utd as being solely down to "scouse goggles" as you so beautifully put it.

By acquiescing to Rooney's demands, Utd are leaving themselves open to a horde of players demanding parity of at least a sizeable increase in their own wages. At least Suarez had done something to deserve his increase whereas I'm struggling to see what exactly Rooney's done for his pay hike.

When Utd shoot themselves in the foot it seems they like to use a cannon and take their whole leg off.

I think you're right Dave.
By agreeing to his demands they are now vulnerable to such demands being made by other players. The wage bill is going to increase quite a bit if..
Anyways my point here is exactly as you put it- he simply doesn't deserve the massive contract and hasn't done anything notable as such to prove otherwise.
But then he's a class player well capable of justifying the pay-hike.
And oh, I didn't use "scouse goggles" in any of my posts. I would never use such adjectives.

Stella wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:Isn't Dave a serial killer?

Why do you sat that Stella?

Because he is.

Come on Stella! ROFL   

I have no idea why people quote the daily mail in such a  derogatory light all the time

Are you lot actually reading the paper?

You knock it but you read it. It is made for you. because i dont know anyone that likes it. Stop reading- stop quoting and then the daily mail goes bankrupt.

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:Isn't Dave a serial killer?

Why do you sat that Stella?

Because he is.

Come on Stella! ROFL   

You didn't know?

why you laughing?

mystiroakey wrote:I have no idea why people quote the daily mail in such a  derogatory light all the time

Are you lot actually reading the paper?

You knock it but you read it. It is made for you. because i dont know anyone that likes it. Stop reading- stop quoting and then the daily mail goes bankrupt.

Oh if that were only the case Mysti.

You're talking about a company who was posting record figures in America for website visits. The Mail are not going anywhere, sadly. They have a market here and bigger markets than any other British paper elsewhere.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I have no idea why people quote the daily mail in such a  derogatory light all the time

Are you lot actually reading the paper?

You knock it but you read it. It is made for you. because i dont know anyone that likes it. Stop reading- stop quoting and then the daily mail goes bankrupt.

Oh if that were only the case Mysti.

You're talking about a company who was posting record figures in America for website visits. The Mail are not going anywhere, sadly. They have a market here and bigger markets than any other British paper elsewhere.

do you know what- You are right I remember posting on IMDB the other month for a bit and it was full of Yanks, kiwis and aussies that kept on linking Daily mail links. Every Brit called it trash- but on they go, reading our trash day in day out , thinking that's the norm!!

mystiroakey wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:Isn't Dave a serial killer?

Why do you sat that Stella?

Because he is.

Come on Stella! ROFL   

You didn't know?

why you laughing?

No.
Are you kidding me? I'm laughing 'cause it damn funny Stella!

Pierce Quincy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:

Pierce Quincy wrote:

Stella wrote:Isn't Dave a serial killer?

Why do you sat that Stella?

Because he is.

Come on Stella! ROFL   

You didn't know?

why you laughing?

No.
Are you kidding me? I'm laughing 'cause it damn funny Stella!

He isn't being funny mate!