Aus in SA: Bailey dropped

Test squad Michael Clarke (capt), Brad Haddin (vice-capt), Jackson Bird, Alex Doolan, James Faulkner, Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson, Shaun Marsh, Nathan Lyon, James Pattinson, Chris Rogers, Peter Siddle, Steven Smith, David Warner, Shane Watson.

and expectedly Marsh is back......Doolan is in.

I am surprised to see Jackson Bird...he looked quite ordinary in England.
there must be faster bowlers in Aus

The selectors have done well I have to say.

Bailey was struggling and had to go.

I think Marsh and Doolan are wise inclusions... even though Hughes has a fantastic record in SA and has played very well in the Shield matches again this year... there are still a few question marks over his 'state of mind' and there are still risks associated with certain aspects of his batting technique.

I'm not surprised by Jackson Bird's inclusion at all. It's not necessarily a question of speed in SA, more a question of metronomic accuracy, swing and subtle movement off the seam - at a decent pace still. Besides, we have enough express pace bowlers already. I wouldn't call him ordinary at all in Australian and (most likely) South African conditions. The guy has already taken 13 Test wickets at 23 and has an even better average in Shield cricket. He won't be bowling at Chester-le-Street either.   

Obviously James Pattinson is a bit of a favourite with selectors. He didn't look so special in yesterday's ODI but he did bowl well down in Melbourne for a short spell in a T20 match after coming back from his long lay-off through injury. He still averages around 26 with 12 Tests under his belt and hopefully he will get a lot better again with more match practise.

Is this the last tour of OZ to SA for some time?

Hughes? No Lb, no!. The guy is not cut out for international cricket, and it is an investment that has gone bust. The selectors are just being sensible not burning more capital on that.......
George Bailey couldn't make much of an impact in the Ashes. So his dropping is not entirely surprising. I'd have given him a squad place at least......
Doolan has been much talked about and Marsh is talented. So who'd they go for? May be Marsh or Doolan bat 3 and put Watson in at 6? Or do they play Faulkner as a proper all-rounder in at 7 with Haddin batting at 6? Or will they put one of Marsh or Doolan, both by nature top order batsmen, in at 6 and continue Watson with that massive pad of his at 3?
I like Faulkner and would like to see him play more test matches. But at this point they are likely to go in with Marsh or Doolan.......

msp83 wrote:Hughes? No Lb, no!. The guy is not cut out for international cricket, and it is an investment that has gone bust. The selectors are just being sensible not burning more capital on that.......
George Bailey couldn't make much of an impact in the Ashes. So his dropping is not entirely surprising. I'd have given him a squad place at least......
Doolan has been much talked about and Marsh is talented. So who'd they go for? May be Marsh or Doolan bat 3 and put Watson in at 6? Or do they play Faulkner as a proper all-rounder in at 7 with Haddin batting at 6? Or will they put one of Marsh or Doolan, both by nature top order batsmen, in at 6 and continue Watson with that massive pad of his at 3?
I like Faulkner and would like to see him play more test matches. But at this point they are likely to go in with Marsh or Doolan.......

Quoted the wrong post, so just editing it.......

OK.

Biltong wrote:Is this the last tour of OZ to SA for some time?

Unless you lot make Dale Steyn bowl with a 5 step run-up and drop AB deVilliers, We, India, Australia and England will not tour your land ever again!!!.
You better give up the brand of cricket you play these days and don't even aspire to go anywhere beyond rank 4.......

Linebreaker wrote:The selectors have done well I have to say.



I'm not surprised by Jackson Bird's inclusion at all. It's not necessarily a question of speed in SA, more a question of metronomic accuracy, swing and subtle movement off the seam - at a decent pace still. Besides, we have enough express pace bowlers already. I wouldn't call him ordinary at all in Australian and (most likely) South African conditions. The guy has already taken 13 Test wickets at 23 and has an even better average in Shield cricket. He won't be bowling at Chester-le-Street either.   

I would understand Starc and Cummins have still not recovered from injury

Line, length subtle movement control is all well.

line, length , subtle movement and control at a higher pace is even better.....

Bollinger, Coulter-Nile have a more wicket taking feel about them then Jackson Bird.

Marsh should bat at No.3 in preparedness to take over as the opener .........since Rogers the debutant in 2013 is already nearing retirement age

By the way how many tests do we have? Is it another travesty of a 2 test series?

Three.

The South Africans also will have to have some thinking to do when picking the squad and team. How do they go about life after Kallis? In my view, they should use Robin Peterson as an all-rounder in at 7, and pick another seam bowling all-rounder to bat 8. Has Chris Morris recovered from injury? Biltong, how do you rate his chances as a possible test player? Simon Harmer could be a potential replacement option for Peterson. His First Class record is impressive for a South African spinner.

Biltong wrote:Three.

Thankfully!.......

Morris has been bowling in the RamSlam our T20 tournament currently on show, he looks fit, had some good moments, but his economy rate is close to 10, I suppose that doesn't tell you too much, but I doubt he will have a look in.

I think Du Plessis is going to get the 4 bat.

I also think Robin Peterson will bat at 7, I doubt de Kock will play in the first two tests, and Kyle Abbot might get a call up.

Warner in particular played Swann very well, and I think we will bowl mostly seam against him.

Therefor I reckon McLaren will become the fourth seamer.

Smith
Petersen
Amla
Du Plessis
De Villiers
Duminy
Peterson
McLaren
Philander
Steyn
Morkel

I don't think Harmer will play against OZ, for similar reasons as de Kock.

We have a series against Zim coming up and I think these guys will get a shot then.

For this series .i think they will go with experienced players

Biltong wrote:I don't think Harmer will play against OZ, for similar reasons as de Kock.

We have a series against Zim coming up and I think these guys will get a shot then.

For this series .i think they will go with experienced players

When is the Zimbabwe series happening? Where is it going to be played?

Biltong wrote:Morris has been bowling in the RamSlam our T20 tournament currently on show, he looks fit, had some good moments, but his economy rate is close to 10, I suppose that doesn't tell you too much, but I doubt he will have a look in.

I think Du Plessis is going to get the 4 bat.

I also think Robin Peterson will bat at 7, I doubt de Kock will play in the first two tests, and Kyle Abbot might get a call up.

Warner in particular played Swann very well, and I think we will bowl mostly seam against him.

Therefor I reckon McLaren will become the fourth seamer.

Smith
Petersen
Amla
Du Plessis
De Villiers
Duminy
Peterson
McLaren
Philander
Steyn
Morkel

Even if they don't pick him at this stage, I hope the South African selectos will keep him within the test frame. The guy can bowl with good pace and looks like a wickettaker even in T-20s. and He can hit the cricket ball a long long way. From whatever I've seen of him, Morris gives me the impression that he's a better bowler than McLaren.......

July-August in Zim, two tests, 3 ODI's and one T20

And I hope JP Duminy's performances with the bat won't escape the deserved scrutiny just because he's a handy parttimer with the ball. He's not good enough to be a frontline spin option, and he has been averaging in the early 30s with the bat. For a quality outfit like South Africa, that has to be unacceptable.

Biltong wrote:July-August in Zim, two tests, 3 ODI's and one T20

Thanks.
Hope the series goes ahead without any financial issues with Zc. Will be great for Zimbabwe, and South Africa would also get the opportunity to try out some of the emerging players.

msp83 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Morris has been bowling in the RamSlam our T20 tournament currently on show, he looks fit, had some good moments, but his economy rate is close to 10, I suppose that doesn't tell you too much, but I doubt he will have a look in.

I think Du Plessis is going to get the 4 bat.

I also think Robin Peterson will bat at 7, I doubt de Kock will play in the first two tests, and Kyle Abbot might get a call up.

Warner in particular played Swann very well, and I think we will bowl mostly seam against him.

Therefor I reckon McLaren will become the fourth seamer.

Smith
Petersen
Amla
Du Plessis
De Villiers
Duminy
Peterson
McLaren
Philander
Steyn
Morkel

Even if they don't pick him at this stage, I hope the South African selectos will keep him within the test frame. The guy can bowl with good pace and looks like a wickettaker even in T-20s. and He can hit the cricket ball a long long way. From whatever I've seen of him, Morris gives me the impression that he's  a better bowler than McLaren.......

i also think Morris is a better bowler than McLaren, but if McLaren to hit the same form in tests as he did in ODI's this past year he could be an effective tool, I think the main reason for his inclusion will be th fact that he is now a settled player in the ODZi squad, has built some relations with the senior players and his ODI form has been good. I don't think they will want to take a chance on Morris against OZ

Duminy to me is a big concern, his has been in woefull form this year and it hasn't improved at all during this summer. In the Ramslam he is averaging about 16 not once did he look in control (even if it is just hit and giggle)

We know SA have a few young quicks like de Lange, Abbot, Ayabulela Nqamane , and some decent all-rounders like Morris and McLaren. But who are the emerging young batsmen? I am not too convinced by Elgar. QdK can be a class act, but who else are in the frame?

msp83 wrote:Hughes? No Lb, no!. The guy is not cut out for international cricket, and it is an investment that has gone bust. The selectors are just being sensible not burning more capital on that.......
George Bailey couldn't make much of an impact in the Ashes. So his dropping is not entirely surprising. I'd have given him a squad place at least......
Doolan has been much talked about and Marsh is talented. So who'd they go for? May be Marsh or Doolan bat 3 and put Watson in at 6? Or do they play Faulkner as a proper all-rounder in at 7 with Haddin batting at 6? Or will they put one of Marsh or Doolan, both by nature top order batsmen, in at 6 and continue Watson with that massive pad of his at 3?
I like Faulkner and would like to see him play more test matches. But at this point they are likely to go in with Marsh or Doolan.......

I'm not putting his name forward at all, msp. Just referring to the article which says he was the 4th batsman considered... due to his excellent shield season this year.

I'd actually prefer to see Doolan given a chance. Marsh has already had an opportunity against India here.
So Doolan at 3, and either drop Waston to 6 or as you say bring in Faulkner at 7 and move Haddin up to 6.

I think the selectors have gotten it pretty much spot on.

I like Bailey and thought he deserved his shot, but in all honesty he looked a bit shy of test class against England. Looked extremely vulnerable to bowling in the corridor and you have to think Steyn and Philander would have fancied their chances. Then if that hadn't worked then Steyn and Morkel would have fancied him to the short ball.

As for the replacements I am pleased to see Marsh, who I've always rated highly, back in the frame. It always seemed harsh to me just how quickly he fell off the radar after one poor (admittedly disastrously so) series. Because of his very still and upright stance he will get out early a few times, but once he gets in he tends to go on.
Equally it will be good to see what Doolan can do. He's been rated highly for a while, and from I saw he looks compact and a nice timer of the ball.

Whoever of the 2 they go for (and TBH I wouldn't mind either way) Australia have to decide whether they bat at 3 or 6. In the past I haven't been a fan of Watson at 6 because I believe he gets bogged down too easily, but recently he's been playing with more freedom in tests, and I think if he brings that to the table he will be a dangerous counter-attacking (or piling on the pressure) option. On the other hand recently he's looked OK at number 3 (2 centuries and a crucial 80odd not out in 6 tests is pretty good going TBH). There's no doubt in my mind that Lehmann has given him more responsibility, told him he's one of the main batsmen and expected to score heavily, and so far it's just about paying off.

Leaving Watson at 3 would mean you could ease Doolan in a bit (batting 3 behind Warner will be quite a challenge in SA you have to feel) or add Marsh at 6 for a bit of solidity in the middle order. On the other hand Doolan at 6 does leave a bit of an underbelly (still doubts about Smith, although he looks increasingly at home, and Haddin will give chances early). Again, a tough call, which is not at all obvious.

Hughes has indeed had a fantastic first class season, and looked in great nick during the BBL, but we've seen that all before in all honesty. IMO he needs a bit longer away from the international scene (what Smith had) to make sure that when he returns he's ironed out (most of) his technical faults. For me, he was badly messed around by the management (just as badly as Root has been) but there's no doubt his technique was far from ideal for international cricket.

As for the bowling options, I am delighted to see James Pattinson, who I rate very highly indeed, back in the frame. This guy has the ability to bowl world class spells, and I really hope his fitness issues are behind him.

Bird is not a floaty 80mph type bowler, he hits the pitch hard, has a good bouncer, and could be a very good option in South Africa. Bollinger? he looks about as threatening as a tooth-pick nowadays, he's scarcely a quick bowler. Coulter-Nile may feel a bit unlucky, but his bowling in all honesty is not in the class of the guys going ahead of him. Pace isn't everything. Look at Philander, McGrath, Clark, Mohammed Asif, Lilee who became a better bowler when he slowed down, Zaheer Khan, the list is endless. Bird is a good prospect, and I wouldn't be surprised if he got a game if either Harris or Siddle got injured.

All in all pretty much spot on from an Aus perspective.

From SA, it remains to be seen how much the absence of Kallis plays a part. I think they will go with 5 bowlers with Peterson at 7 and McLaren 8 (although personally I agree with msp that Morris looks the more likely wicket-taker). With Duminy still a bit of a question mark at 6, and Du Plessis undoubted quality but relatively untested at 4, Australia will feel that middle-order has a bit of vulnerability about it.

invisiblecoolers is not going to be happy about this.

McLaren is an inferior batsman and bowler. I'd pick Morris.

I reckon that is a good selection by Australia. Bailey really didn't look quite Test class ...he is no spring chicken himself , so with the need to have some younger batsmen developing I think it makes sense to have a look at a couple of alternatives - doesn't mean he is discarded for good. After all three Tests against Steyn & co may dent one or two other reputations...
Bird seems a fair choice too. You can get a bit obsessed with pace I reckon ; Philander is hardly express but has done rather well in SA   

Wonder who will play in the first Test ? Doolan was the chosen reserve for Sydney , so he may have the inside running. But Marsh has some experience so he might be seen as more ready to take on the strong SA attack first up. I would be astonished if they played Faulknerv, despite his ODI heroics with the bat. They won't want to shorten the batting against this lot.
Doolan for me , possibly at four ?

msp83 wrote:...

George Bailey couldn't make much of an impact in the Ashes. So his dropping is not entirely surprising. I'd have given him a squad place at least...... .

That had also been my initial thinking. The guy made his Test debut at the start of this Ashes series and featured in all five winning matches. Kind of expected that to get him on the plane to South Africa.

There again, the selectors might appear to be saying that although it was an excellent team success, you still need to pretty much deliver on a personal basis to keep your place in or around that team and, sorry, you didn't, George! Perhaps a bit harsh but probably correct, certainly if those waiting in the wings are ready.

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:...

George Bailey couldn't make much of an impact in the Ashes. So his dropping is not entirely surprising. I'd have given him a squad place at least...... .

That had also been my initial thinking. The guy made his Test debut at the start of this Ashes series and featured in all five winning matches. Kind of expected that to get him on the plane to South Africa.

There again, the selectors might appear to be saying that although it was an excellent team success, you still need to pretty much deliver on a personal basis to keep your place in or around that team and, sorry, you didn't, George! Perhaps a bit harsh but probably correct, certainly if those waiting in the wings are ready.

Question is, are Marsh or Doolan any better or any more ready than Bailey?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:...

George Bailey couldn't make much of an impact in the Ashes. So his dropping is not entirely surprising. I'd have given him a squad place at least...... .

That had also been my initial thinking. The guy made his Test debut at the start of this Ashes series and featured in all five winning matches. Kind of expected that to get him on the plane to South Africa.

There again, the selectors might appear to be saying that although it was an excellent team success, you still need to pretty much deliver on a personal basis to keep your place in or around that team and, sorry, you didn't, George! Perhaps a bit harsh but probably correct, certainly if those waiting in the wings are ready.

Question is, are Marsh or Doolan any better or any more ready than Bailey?

I'm in no position to answer that, Hoggy, and so deliberately left it hanging in my earlier post. However, the vibes I get from reading here and elsewhere is that they're at least worthy of the opportunity. Probably fair play to the selectors for giving such an opportunity to these players.

guildfordbat wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:...

George Bailey couldn't make much of an impact in the Ashes. So his dropping is not entirely surprising. I'd have given him a squad place at least...... .

That had also been my initial thinking. The guy made his Test debut at the start of this Ashes series and featured in all five winning matches. Kind of expected that to get him on the plane to South Africa.

There again, the selectors might appear to be saying that although it was an excellent team success, you still need to pretty much deliver on a personal basis to keep your place in or around that team and, sorry, you didn't, George! Perhaps a bit harsh but probably correct, certainly if those waiting in the wings are ready.

Question is, are Marsh or Doolan any better or any more ready than Bailey?

I'm in no position to answer that, Hoggy, and so deliberately left it hanging in my earlier post. However, the vibes I get from reading here and elsewhere is that they're at least worthy of the opportunity. Probably fair play to the selectors for giving such an opportunity to these players.

Yep you're probably right. That is what selectors are for after all, to make these decisions. I was just thinking about an article I'd read on the topic which questions whether it was a good decision.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/jan/20/australia-south-africa-tour-george-bailey

Anyone know if this series is going to be live on Sky in the UK? Really looking forward to it.

Sangakkara wrote:Anyone know if this series is going to be live on Sky in the UK? Really looking forward to it.

Sanga - I understand the first two Tests are being shown live on Sky in the UK. After that, not sure - possibly not, as there are potential clashes with England's ODIs etc in the West Indies which are definitely being covered by Sky.

Cheers Guildford

It's incredible that George Bailey was selected on his extraordinary ODI form and Australia admitted they made an error. 

Yet they've now reselected Shaun Marsh based on his ODI/list A/T20 form. 

Marsh's Sheffield Shield 2013/14 average is under 30, with 1 hundred and no 50s. 

He doesn't merit a recall.

Saffers gotta be pretty confident looking at the Aussie batting line up...imagine what Steyn/Philander/Morkel are gonna do if its swinging/nipping off the seam..

It works both ways though Olly.

Linebreaker wrote:It works both ways though Olly.

exactly....if fully fit.....the Aussie bowling will be handful...especially deadly will be Ryan Harris.

It will be a very close series and interesting too

Linebreaker wrote:It works both ways though Olly.

It does, but will the Aussie bowlers be able to get as up for this series (Johnson mainly)/be fit enough (in the case of Harris and Watson)

I'm not so sure

Olly wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:It works both ways though Olly.

It does, but will the Aussie bowlers be able to get as up for this series (Johnson mainly)/be fit enough (in the case of Harris and Watson)

I'm not so sure

Why not? It's been done many times before there.

Linebreaker wrote:

Olly wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:It works both ways though Olly.

It does, but will the Aussie bowlers be able to get as up for this series (Johnson mainly)/be fit enough (in the case of Harris and Watson)

I'm not so sure

Why not? It's been done many times before there.

Just a gut feeling/prediction LB   

Oh OK. Cheers for that, mate.

(yeah, it could happen I suppose)

I wouldn't worry too much, my predictions are almost always wrong

Olly wrote:I wouldn't worry too much, my predictions are almost always wrong

So are mine usually. (this is all a bluff on here ya know) 

This is a possible XI:

1) Graeme Smith
2) Alviro Petersen
3) Hashim Amla
4) Dean Elgar
5) AB deVilliers
6) JP Duminy
7) FAF duPlessis
8) Robin Peterson
9) Vernon Philander
10) Dale steyn
11) Morne Morkel

I expect Kallis's place to be taken by a batsman...when you have bowlers of the calibre of Steyn, Philander and Morkel, you don't need five bowlers.

Australian batting still looks rather vulnerable to me. What has been somewhat overlooked in the excitement over the 5-0 win is that , even after the regular Haddin rescue act , the Australian first innings scores in the Ashes series were generally pretty modest. (Adelaide something of an exception , yes ; but even then hardly exceptional for Adelaide )
of course they then came out and skittled England so it didn't matter ; but I am not sure they will be able to do the same to SA , who still look solid in batting even without Kallis.
Suppose it depends partly on how much the destruction of the England batting was down to the undoubted prowess of the Australian bowling outfit , and how much to the apparent loss of form of three or four of England's long- term batting rocks and the unexpected early departure of another...

I do think the Australian bowlers , who are sensibly being given time to recover from their exertions , will be up for it ; but I am not sure they will find Smith , Amla etc such easy meat.

Will be a tasty match up anyway. Looking forward to it all.

James Faulkner is out of the tour with a knee injury.
Moises Henriques is called up as replacement.
Henriques had a decent debut test in India, but I would say he's not really in Faulkner's league. Sure Faulkner has played only the 1 test as yet, but I think there is a significant difference in class there.
Perhaps they should have called up Bailey himself? I don't think Henriques is really good enough with bat or ball. He's more of a number 8 bat and a 5th seamer. Faulkner could easily become a number 7 and 4th seamer.

Don't think Faulkner is test class either. Amla and co will milk his 130 kph bowling in their sleeps. Most of his wickets in ODIS have come with the batsmen slogging. I also highly doubt his batting is anywhere near test number 7 standards. Facing Dale Steyn, Vernon Philander and Morne Morkel in a Test in SA is slightly different to smashing Ishant, Vinay and Bresnan on flat pitches in ODIs.

Australia would've been better off going for a proper fast bowler instead of notional allrounders like Henriques and Faulkner.

Starc, Coulter Nile, Sayers, Sandhu or even Bollinger

msp83 wrote:James Faulkner is out of the tour with a knee injury.
Moises Henriques is called up as replacement.
Henriques had a decent debut test in India, but I would say he's not really in Faulkner's league. Sure Faulkner has played only the 1 test as yet, but I think there is a significant difference in class there.
Perhaps they should have called up Bailey himself? I don't think Henriques is really good enough with bat or ball. He's more of a number 8 bat and a 5th seamer. Faulkner could easily become a number 7 and 4th seamer.

Faulkner is another Kluesener.....hold his place as a seam bowler and then hit some lower order runs...

Henriques...I liked the look of him......he is a pure batsman who can bowl some medium pace like Angelo Mathews
and Henriques is quite a good batsman actually in my view