P4P Myth?

Afternoon folks,
Have been an avid reader of BBC 606 over the past 18 months/2 years. Since the imminent demise of that site I thought I'd join up to this one and see if it takes off. Seems to be the most promising forum after 606!
Anyway, my question is this: Is the P4P title a complete myth? My reasoning: if for example everyone was the same weight (let's say 168lbs) would boxers styles still be the same? Wladimir Klitschko is huge, if he was smaller he'd be much quicker and and wouldn't tower over people like he does therefore eliminating his advantages. Same for someone like Mayweather who has extraordinary reflexes, if he was bigger would he be slower thus avoiding less shots? Those are just two examples of a huge range of possibilities but hopefully you catch my drift. Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about, please feel free discuss...thankyou.

Great article!

IMO - p4p is entirely a myth. If you made manny pacquiao 6 foot 4 and 250 pounds and able to fight with the same foot and handspeed and the equivalent amount of power - then he would destroy any and every heavyweight champion in the world.

It doesn't work the other way - if you made W Klit 5 foot and the equivalent weight - he wouldn't outbox anyone w/o his physical advantages...

Which means that it is always incredibly biased against HW fighters; as you say - size is very much a determining factor in how people fight. It would be a bit ridiculous to demand a Klitschko to become excellent at fighting on the inside - why would he have to?

It was a title made up to respect Sugar Ray - but it has been abused since to "cash in".

Exactly, it doesn't really make much sense. But like you say, any opportunity to cash in on something over logic will always prevail unfortunately.

Robbo wrote: Is the P4P title a complete myth?

~system flaw yields a double post!

[quote="Perfessor Albertus Lion V"]

Robbo wrote: Is the P4P title a complete myth?

~No sir, not a myth unless you count logical reasoning to be a myth.

P4P is a type of logical comparison like any other ranking or rating. Like any human endeavor whether adding 2+2 or calculating the thrusts of rockets, the conclusion may sometimes be in operator error, more so in P4P because of subjective measurements outweigh objective measurements.

Your size comparison is invalid for example. If Wlad gives up size for quickness, he is merely trading one advantageous physical attribute for another. No fighter has it all, but the best p4pers tend to be both physically and mentally blessed enough to put together a rare jewel of a career in comparison to their peers.

Regardless of his size, if Mr. Manny was fighting at a much higher level than his peers in any division, he would be ranked highly on a p4p basis, and that is exactly what has happened so far. Extending it it out, presumably he would come out ahead in any equalized mythical matchup against every division champ. Perhaps that is where your "myth" comes from, that we can't physically match them when the size difference is too much, but sir, that's where the intellect kicks in, and intellect is hardly a myth unless you wish to stake that claim for yourself.

Surely NOT!

Good response, I see what your're saying there Professor, that's certainly a more valid argument for the P4P status. I think the P4P thing has been blown way out of context over the years, now it's thrown around in just about every boxing conversation there is to the point where you hardly understand what it truly means. Are you sure about the size difference thing though? Wlad uses is height and reach advantages to great effect, if he was shorter he would gain a better advantage of fighting in close? This would not suit his suspect chin.

Robbo wrote: Are you sure about the size difference thing though? Wlad uses is height and reach advantages to great effect, if he was shorter he would gain a better advantage of fighting in close? This would not suit his suspect chin.

~Sir, what if we halved his IQ along with that of Mr. Manny and Mr. Sugar Ray?

Who say's they'd be ranked p4pers then? Or take away their speed, or how about stealing their coordination and making them clumsy oafs?

My point about p4p logic is that the highly rated p4p fighters put together the whole imperfect package for a stellar record regardless of size is the way p4p has evolved. Remember, Mr. Sugar Ray almost always had the height and reach over his opponents, a forgotten piece of the p4p beginnings.

I'll close by posting the IBRO top 20, and please do note the incredible variety of physical and mental makeups of these legends, short or tall, quick or not so, powerful or stylish, they fill every niche but ordinary:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Muhammad Ali (tie)
4. Joe Louis (tie)
6. Sam Langford
7. Roberto Duran
8. Benny Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Bob Fitzsimmons
11. Joe Gans
12. Ezzard Charles (tie)
12. Sugar Ray Leonard (tie)
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Eder Jofre
16. Mickey Walker
17. Archie Moore
18. Jack Dempsey
19. Jack Johnson
20. Gene Tunney