You Dont Deserve That Fighter/ Win On Your Record!!!

I happened to come across (on Youtube!) the fight between Alfonso Gomez and Arturo Gatti at the weekend. I remember watching the fight at the time and being somewhat saddened by the outcome. I was a fan of Alfonso on The Contender but still didn’t think he deserved to beat a guy like Gatti (even if Gatti was coming towards to the end of his career).

What instances can you think of where a fighter has a win/ opponent on his record that in your opinion he doesn’t really desrve to have?

Another example from me:

Amir Khan Win v Barrera – Barrera a Feather/ Super Featherweight legend, well past his prime blown up to lightweight and Khan had all the advantages and beat him quite well. But really Khan having a HOF guy like Barrera on his record? – not for me.

What examples can you guys come up with?? – Whether it was a lucky win/ gifted decision/ beating a well past his prime opponent/ weight drained opponent etc??

Berwick v Ali

Anyone who beat RJJ in the last couple of years.

Also McBride (particularly) and Williams over Tyson.

Valuev over Commander Vander (or was it "Evan Fields"?)

Good calls. Id also say Alvarez vs Mosley.

Also go with Danny Garcia vs Erik Morales and Khan vs Barrera.

In their primes, Khan and Garcia would have been battered.

mobilemaster8 wrote:In their primes, Khan and Garcia would have been battered.

They would have been at different weights so the fights would never have been made. how about them taking on JCC or Pernell instead?  

Froch v Kessler 2.

Sad to see the better fighter had faded so much.

It's always better to judge fights when both boxers are near or close to their best.

Can you say a fighter doesn't deserve a win on their record? The guys mentioned are still fighting in some cases so it's not like Khan dragged Barrera out of the OAPs home and stuck some gloves on him, same with Garcia vs Morales, Morales was a world champ in the first fight which says an awful lot.

That said, I was at the Khan vs Barerra fight and it should have been a NC.

Nice list and great topic!
 
Will think of some that irk me.
 
I don't  think Hatton should be on Senchenko's record really. Had Hatton been prime, Senchenko would have been mince meat

Roy Jones JR - Danny Green
James Toney - Jason Gavern
Shane Mosley - Anthony Mundine

SugarWarrior wrote:I happened to come across (on Youtube!) the fight between Alfonso Gomez and Arturo Gatti at the weekend. I remember watching the fight at the time and being somewhat saddened by the outcome. I was a fan of Alfonso on The Contender but still didn’t think he deserved to beat a guy like Gatti (even if Gatti was coming towards to the end of his career).

What instances can you think of where a fighter has a win/ opponent on his record that in your opinion he doesn’t really desrve to have?

Another example from me:

Amir Khan Win v Barrera – Barrera a Feather/ Super Featherweight legend, well past his prime blown up to lightweight and Khan had all the advantages and beat him quite well.  But really Khan having a HOF guy like Barrera on his record? – not for me.

What examples can you guys come up with?? – Whether it was a lucky win/ gifted decision/ beating a well past his prime opponent/ weight drained opponent etc??

Really?? Head clash and one of the biggest cuts you're likely to see...in the first round!!! It shouldn't have even went into the 2nd round. Funny how it was stopped as soon as they could go to the cards.

I'm saying that even though I had Khan to win between rounds 4-6 and got the bet up. But that fight was a shambles.

hampo171 wrote:Roy Jones JR - Danny Green
James Toney - Jason Gavern
Shane Mosley - Anthony Mundine

"WHEN YOU BEAT A LEGEND, YOU BECOME ONE!!!!"

Berbick v Ali in 1981 (no explanation needed)
Mcbride win over a shell of iron mike in 2005
senchenko v Hatton as in his prime hatton would have smashed him
Derek Chisora V Danny Williams, for this one im not saying chisora would not have beat Williams in his prime but on the record it will show a ko in round 2(I think it was) don't think that fight should have happened

castillio has also been beat recently by some very average fighters

Moseley against Mundine is another example, no way on earth Shane would have lost that in his prime

Seanusarrilius wrote:Nice list and great topic!
 
Will think of some that irk me.
 
I don't  think Hatton should be on Senchenko's record really. Had Hatton been prime, Senchenko would have been mince meat

I disagree, Hatton always struggled at Welter even before he got mopped up by Manny.

Shenschenko would still have the height and awkwardness for someone like Hatton, so couple with how average Hatton was at welter I reckon it would still be a fight Hatton could have lost.

The only quesiton is, would he have blubbered like a new born baby if he had of lost back then?  

Bruno - Bugner
Collins - Benn or Eubank
Oscar - JCC/Sweet Pea
Manny - Oscar
Holmes/Berbick - Ali
Marciano - Louis
Ali - Archie Moore
Jack Johnson - Jim Jeffries

and last but not least.......

Jim Jeffries - Peter Jackson

DAVE667 wrote:Bruno - Bugner
Collins - Benn or Eubank
Oscar - JCC/Sweet Pea
Manny - Oscar
Holmes/Berbick - Ali
Marciano - Louis
Ali - Archie Moore
Jack Johnson - Jim Jeffries

and last but not least.......

Jim Jeffries - Peter Jackson

What?? Eubank was unbeaten when Collins first beat him. Why shouldn't that have been allowed to happen?? Agree with Benn by the way.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Bruno - Bugner
Collins - Benn or Eubank
Oscar - JCC/Sweet Pea
Manny - Oscar
Holmes/Berbick - Ali
Marciano - Louis
Ali - Archie Moore
Jack Johnson - Jim Jeffries

and last but not least.......

Jim Jeffries - Peter Jackson

What?? Eubank was unbeaten when Collins first beat him. Why shouldn't that have been allowed to happen?? Agree with Benn by the way.

Eubank wasn't the same fighter after Watson and the guy Collins beat was, for me at least, Eubank in name alone. Eubank never finished off opponents with the same spite post-Watson and I think Collins benefitted from Eubank's reluctance to engage.

I dont think that can be held against Collins though. He was facing an undefeated fighter for his world title. I think Calzaghe vs Eubank would be more appropriate

Lebedev v Toney/RJJ

Rahman vs Lewis

Rahman just got a hail mary in, the rematch showed what Rahman was really about - but Rahman traded off beating Lewis for years after.

Anyone who beat RJJ after Calzaghe, he was no longer the fighter he was after Calzaghe and some might say even Calzaghe doesn't deserve his name because had they fought 2/3 years earlier it would have been very different.

Was JC-RJJ ever really a viable match-up?

Jeffries on Johnson's resume shouldn't be shouted out of the history pages for a great win. Jeffries had 6 years out of the ring. You don't just brush off 6 years of pigging out and not training. He was a shell of his former self when he fought Johnson. Not saying he would have beaten Johnson in his prime, but if this fight were taking place today, boxing fans would be screaming about what a joke it was. Other than as a testament to racial implications this fight means nothing as far as boxing history. Even Tyson v Holmes was more legitimate .

Cheers Rodders

The first person to beat Floyd will not deserve his name on their record.....36 years old, brittle hands etc.

What do you mean EVEN Tyson-Holmes was more legitimate.......

Holmes is a good win for Tyson..........

Stop taking cheap pops at modern fighters..

Rodney wrote:Jeffries on Johnson's resume shouldn't be shouted out of the history pages for a great win. Jeffries had  6 years out of the ring. You don't just brush off 6 years of pigging out and not training. He was a shell of his former self when he fought Johnson. Not saying he would have beaten Johnson in his prime, but if this fight were taking place today, boxing fans would be screaming about what a joke it was. Other than as a testament to racial implications this fight means nothing as far as boxing history. Even Tyson v Holmes was more legitimate .

Cheers Rodders

Whilst rushing to pay £15 for PPV as a "legend" was making his ring retun

It wasn't a pop it was a relevant comment. I forgot you hold the Marciano fight against Louis maybe you don't give old faded fighters a pass, but I do.

Cheers Rodders

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:The first person to beat Floyd will not deserve his name on their record.....36 years old, brittle hands etc.

I don't care, write my name in the sky with a 100 mile high fet tip pen.

I smacked Floyd Mayweather in the teeth and he got on his knees and begged me to do it again....biyyyatch!!

Rodney wrote:It wasn't a pop it was a relevant comment. I forgot you hold the Marciano fight against Louis maybe you don't give old faded fighters a pass, but I do.

Cheers Rodders

Don't hold it against Louis.......Point out that he lost to his best opponents which is true.......

But smokescreen away...........You do pick on modern fighters........."Mayweather isn't great"..........Be honest Jeffries is higher on your list Isn't he ??

But it isn't a point is it ? Do you say the same about Tyson ?

We're not going down the old Mayweather and lists route again are we ? Cheers Rodders

I don't have Tyson top 10...........

And ?

I rate his oposition accordingly to his position......Louis best opponents beat him...Past it or not.........

Tony Tubbs plays with Schmelling..........

Look I appreciate your stuff.........But this down-rating of modern fighters.........Like old Grandad resenting the present just seems silly.........

Fitz does make Jones jr look like a bum.........But only in dreams..

Truss when I rate fighters I tend to look past head to head, you know your boxing well enough when hypothetically putting Jones Jnr in with Fitz doesn't work , whose rules are we using for starters ?

Fitzsimmons achievements standout as exceptional that's why he ranks so highly in my lists , if you can't see past that fair enough, share a conversation with Azania. If we're saying Louis best opponents beat him then I presume you'd say the same about Tyson.

Ps Schmeling drills the bejesus out of the lazy Tony Tubbs

Cheers Rodders

You do realise, Rodders, that Tubbs had the fastest hands of any HW.

An unofficial record was set at an experimental all-you-can-eat buffet at KFC (shortly before KFC recorded it's biggest ever financial loss)

DAVE667 wrote:You do realise, Rodders, that Tubbs had the fastest hands of any HW.

An unofficial record was set at an experimental all-you-can-eat buffet at KFC (shortly before KFC recorded it's biggest ever financial loss)

Rodders might realise it.........But you'd have to have seen him fight.........

When he applied himself...sadly the argument that he beats Schmeling is a spurious one as the likelihood of an "in-shape" motivated Tubbs turning up on fight night seems but a pipe dream.

Still, that's the beauty of opinion and conjecture. You think Tubbs beats Max, Rodders thinks Max whips that right hand over the top enough times to discourage Tony and eventually drop him.

Me? I don't care enough.

Norris v Leonard, Ray was well past his best, easy win for Leonard anywhere near his best.

Calzaghe v RJJ a well past it Jones puts Calzaghe down, Jones closes the show at his best.

Berbick v Ali,prime Ali makes him look like a poor sparring partner.

Pender v Robinson, Robinson anywhere near his best kills him.

DAVE667 wrote:When he applied himself...sadly the argument that he beats Schmeling is a spurious one as the likelihood of an "in-shape" motivated Tubbs turning up on fight night seems but a pipe dream.

Still, that's the beauty of opinion and conjecture. You think Tubbs beats Max, Rodders thinks Max whips that right hand over the top enough times to discourage Tony and eventually drop him.

Me? I don't care enough.

An out of shape Tubbs went 15 rounds and lost a split to Tim witherspoon...at a good pace..

He'd be quicker, bigger and rap harder than schmelling......who was a small heavy..

You haven't seen him fight admit it.

What shape was he in when getting pancaked in 1 by Butler (a much smaller heavy)?? [just watched in on YT]

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:When he applied himself...sadly the argument that he beats Schmeling is a spurious one as the likelihood of an "in-shape" motivated Tubbs turning up on fight night seems but a pipe dream.

Still, that's the beauty of opinion and conjecture. You think Tubbs beats Max, Rodders thinks Max whips that right hand over the top enough times to discourage Tony and eventually drop him.

Me? I don't care enough.

An out of shape Tubbs went 15 rounds and lost a split to Tim witherspoon...at a good pace..

He'd be quicker, bigger and rap harder than schmelling......who was a small heavy..

You haven't seen him fight admit it.

You're absolutely right...42 years old with no terrestrial tv back in the day or computer access these days. How could I possibly have? And Tim was hardly the poster boy for application was he? Still I forgot that Max was going to just stand there and let Tony have free shots all night long.

Anyway, home time....play nicely fellas!