Rugby Heaven's Team of the Year

http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/rugby-union/union-news/rugbyheaven-team-of-the-year-2013-20131201-2yjga.html

15. Israel Folau
14. Ben Smith
13. Jonathan Davies
12. Jean de Villiers
11. George North
10. Aaron Cruden
9. Aaron Smith
8. Kieran Read
7. Richie McCaw
6. Liam Messam
5. Brodie Retallick
4. Eben Etzebeth
3. Adam Jones
2. Bismarck du Plessis
1. Marcos Ayerza

That's 7 New Zealanders, 3 South Africans, 3 Welshmen, 1 Australian and 1 Argentinian.

Bound to be a good looking team. No halfpenny but folau did good. I'd try and fit Savea in the team as well Not sure about Cruden but who's better this year.

Id have a different 13 and 14. Jonathan Davies played a grand total of 20 minutes this autumn . Ben Smith did not play on the wing .

Bullsbok wrote:Id have a different 13 and 14. Jonathan Davies played a grand total of 20 minutes this autumn . Ben Smith did not play on the wing .

Huh???      

The team is Rugby Heaven Team of the Year 2013 and Ben Smith played all of his games on the wing other than the northern hemisphere tour games and anyway name a better wing than him - in fact the next two wingers on the list should be Savea and Piutau.  Also, Nonu was by far the best 12 this year and Conrad Smith the best centre for the games he played.

Am I biased?  Yes and I won't apologise for it either as a team than goes 14-0 and, according to most of the posters here, only wins through their infinitely superior backline should have the majority of the players in that backline.  My backline would be the AB's from 9 to 14 with either 1/2 penny or Folau at fullback (although Dagg didn't disgrace himself).  Won't complain too much about the rest of the team, but Sam Whitelock must have gone close - especially given that the AB's lineout was imperious this year (not sure I ever believed I would say that after some of the shocking lineouts we had in the early to mid 2000's).

Otagolad wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Id have a different 13 and 14. Jonathan Davies played a grand total of 20 minutes this autumn . Ben Smith did not play on the wing .

Huh???      

The team is Rugby Heaven Team of the Year 2013 and Ben Smith played all of his games on the wing other than the northern hemisphere tour games and anyway name a better wing than him - in fact the next two wingers on the list should be Savea and Piutau.  Also, Nonu was by far the best 12 this year and Conrad Smith the best centre for the games he played.

Am I biased?  Yes and I won't apologise for it either as a team than goes 14-0 and, according to most of the posters here, only wins through their infinitely superior backline should have the majority of the players in that backline.  My backline would be the AB's from 9 to 14 with either 1/2 penny or Folau at fullback (although Dagg didn't disgrace himself).  Won't complain too much about the rest of the team, but Sam Whitelock must have gone close - especially given that the AB's lineout was imperious this year (not sure I ever believed I would say that after some of the shocking lineouts we had in the early to mid 2000's).

My mistake calm it down . Already . And NONU best 12 of 2013 ? hahahahahhahahahahha  of course he was. He was so good Nz clubs had to be begged to sign him . I dont actually know if you're trolling or not here ? if you are then i feel stupid for taking this post seriously

Bullsbok wrote:

Otagolad wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Id have a different 13 and 14. Jonathan Davies played a grand total of 20 minutes this autumn . Ben Smith did not play on the wing .

Huh???      

The team is Rugby Heaven Team of the Year 2013 and Ben Smith played all of his games on the wing other than the northern hemisphere tour games and anyway name a better wing than him - in fact the next two wingers on the list should be Savea and Piutau.  Also, Nonu was by far the best 12 this year and Conrad Smith the best centre for the games he played.

Am I biased?  Yes and I won't apologise for it either as a team than goes 14-0 and, according to most of the posters here, only wins through their infinitely superior backline should have the majority of the players in that backline.  My backline would be the AB's from 9 to 14 with either 1/2 penny or Folau at fullback (although Dagg didn't disgrace himself).  Won't complain too much about the rest of the team, but Sam Whitelock must have gone close - especially given that the AB's lineout was imperious this year (not sure I ever believed I would say that after some of the shocking lineouts we had in the early to mid 2000's).

My mistake calm it down . Already . And NONU best 12 of 2013 ? hahahahahhahahahahha   of course he was. He was so good Nz clubs had to be begged to sign him . I dont actually know if you're trolling or not here ? if you are then i feel stupid for taking this post seriously

He may not have been loved by S15 sides but that doesn't mean he wasn't a standout in the 12 jersey at test level - specifically you might want to have a look back at the two games the Boks lost to the AB's this year; Nonu was immense.  I might be a passionate AB's fan but in this case the tale of the tape says it all - Jean de Villiers' missed tackles in those two games sum it up for me as to why he doesn't make the team and Nonu's defence, distribution and kicking game get him the 12 jersey.

Otagolad wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Otagolad wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Id have a different 13 and 14. Jonathan Davies played a grand total of 20 minutes this autumn . Ben Smith did not play on the wing .

Huh???      

The team is Rugby Heaven Team of the Year 2013 and Ben Smith played all of his games on the wing other than the northern hemisphere tour games and anyway name a better wing than him - in fact the next two wingers on the list should be Savea and Piutau.  Also, Nonu was by far the best 12 this year and Conrad Smith the best centre for the games he played.

Am I biased?  Yes and I won't apologise for it either as a team than goes 14-0 and, according to most of the posters here, only wins through their infinitely superior backline should have the majority of the players in that backline.  My backline would be the AB's from 9 to 14 with either 1/2 penny or Folau at fullback (although Dagg didn't disgrace himself).  Won't complain too much about the rest of the team, but Sam Whitelock must have gone close - especially given that the AB's lineout was imperious this year (not sure I ever believed I would say that after some of the shocking lineouts we had in the early to mid 2000's).

My mistake calm it down . Already . And NONU best 12 of 2013 ? hahahahahhahahahahha   of course he was. He was so good Nz clubs had to be begged to sign him . I dont actually know if you're trolling or not here ? if you are then i feel stupid for taking this post seriously

He may not have been loved by S15 sides but that doesn't mean he wasn't a standout in the 12 jersey at test level - specifically you might want to have a look back at the two games the Boks lost to the AB's this year; Nonu was immense.  I might be a passionate AB's fan but in this case the tale of the tape says it all - Jean de Villiers' missed tackles in those two games sum it up for me as to why he doesn't make the team and Nonu's defence, distribution and kicking game get him the 12 jersey.

Okay whatever floats your boat  

Have a point about Nonu. In the jersey itself hes been great, as you say Otagolad vs the Boks was excellent. JDV had a good year also bar the Barrett non tackle. I'd have JDV and Smith to be honest. JD I don't really get given the opposition.

Agree with Folau vs Halfpenny. I'd take major strikepower over consistent and reliable any day in a 'best of team'. I think Daggs prowess has been tamed a bit purely with the Smiths and Saveas able to take the same opporunities usually reserved for Dagg, who used to link in with Read a lot- Savea and Smith have adopted that role more so its a bit congested there for Dagg. Nothing wrong with that.

Cruden shades Sexton due to his poor moment vs the ABs- another 10 in the ROG and Stephen Jones mould to have nightmare AB memories. But Cooper finished the year best.

Taylorman wrote:Have a point about Nonu. In the jersey itself hes been great, as you say Otagolad vs the Boks was excellent. JDV had a good year also bar the Barrett non tackle. I'd have JDV and Smith to be honest. JD I don't really get given the opposition.

Agree with Folau vs Halfpenny. I'd take major strikepower over consistent and reliable any day in a 'best of team'. I think Daggs prowess has been tamed a bit purely with the Smiths and Saveas able to take the same opporunities usually reserved for Dagg, who used to link in with Read a lot- Savea and Smith have adopted that role more so its a bit congested there for Dagg. Nothing wrong with that.

Cruden shades Sexton due to his poor moment vs the ABs- another 10 in the ROG and Stephen Jones mould to have nightmare AB memories. But Cooper finished the year best.

Good point about Dagg , pre Smith - Savea he was one of the premier AB striker runners with those scything counter attacks. Now he plays a more reserved role.

Strange, an English side beats Australia, runs the AB close and convincingly beats Arg, albeit through the forwards in all cases, yet not one Englishman in the side.

The English back row out performed both the ABs and Australians as did the English locks, (Lawes was immense) even a second string front row more than matched anything that came against them.

The backs I can understand.

 

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Strange, an English side beats Australia, runs the AB close and convincingly beats Arg, albeit through the forwards in all cases, yet not one Englishman in the side.

The English back row out performed both the ABs and Australians as did the English locks, (Lawes was immense) even a second string front row more than matched anything that came against them.

The backs I can understand.

Not sure Lawes would make it into a NH best 15. Actually he definitely wouldnt.

The 15 mentioned are really good but you could possibly choose another 15 that would be just as good.

Did the English back row really outperform the ABs? Is that like our 6,7 and 8, as in Read, McCaw, Messam? That's the back row eh?

Rugby Heaven wrote:15. Israel Folau
14. Ben Smith
13. Jonathan Davies
12. Jean de Villiers
11. George North
10. Aaron Cruden
9. Aaron Smith
8. Kieran Read
7. Richie McCaw
6. Liam Messam
5. Brodie Retallick
4. Eben Etzebeth
3. Adam Jones
2. Bismarck du Plessis
1. Marcos Ayerza

Just a note on some non SA selections.

Flip v d Merwe was a star for SA during the Autumn internationals, maybe that was not enough to put him in for the year.

Willem alberts and Francois Louw was immense for SA throughout the year, and was first choice for the Boks the whole year, I think Messam is a tad lucky to be there.

Bryan Habana was back to his utter best this year, scoring some scintilating tries, was very good in defence, made very few errors. Unlucky not to be there.

Depends really if this is over the whole year or just the most impressive 1 off performance. Don't think Davies played that well in the 6N, or the 1st 2 Lions tests and missed the AIs so not sure he should be included but over the year Halfpenny should def be at 15. Guess you could have a completely different side though and still be pretty happy with it.

Thought Adam jones had one of his worst years in a while, surprised to see him or messam.

Would've had BoD in rather than JD.

In all seriousness, what did he do? One test for the lions...loss to SA and then injured?

That's right 7.5. Could whack up a list of reserves and still think yeah that's a good team. From what I've watched from an SH bias I'd bank Bismarck, Etzebeth, Read, Smith, Smith and Folau.

Biltong wrote:

Rugby Heaven wrote:15. Israel Folau
14. Ben Smith
13. Jonathan Davies
12. Jean de Villiers
11. George North
10. Aaron Cruden
9. Aaron Smith
8. Kieran Read
7. Richie McCaw
6. Liam Messam
5. Brodie Retallick
4. Eben Etzebeth
3. Adam Jones
2. Bismarck du Plessis
1. Marcos Ayerza

Just a note on some non SA selections.

Flip v d Merwe was a star for SA during the Autumn internationals, maybe that was not enough to put him in for the year.

Willem alberts and Francois Louw was immense for SA throughout the year, and was first choice for the Boks the whole year, I think Messam is a tad lucky to be there.

Bryan Habana was back to his utter best this year, scoring some scintilating tries, was very good in defence, made very few errors. Unlucky not to be there.

Agree with you BT.

Surprised to see BdP in there actually, after that dispicable action that earned him a red card   

In all honesty, I'd stick Sam Whitelock in the second row, and I'd be tempted to bring in IRB Player of the Year nominee 1/2p rather than Folau if we're picking Cruden. I would've thought the second kicking option would be sensible, and tough to overlook him given he is a nominee.

The problem is the wing and full back is too congested even in the ABs: Dagg, Piutau, Ben Smith, Savea, Le Roux, 1/2p, North, Folau, Habana, even than annoying English chap wasn't too bad when he kept his feet in play. So there's no way really to pick a team without someone who deserves to be there missing out. So that points to picking a combination with balance, or to support national combinations. It looks like this published team has failed to do either of those two things.

Think George North is unlucky not to make the IRB player of the year shortlist. He is an incredible rugby player.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Strange, an English side beats Australia, runs the AB close and convincingly beats Arg, albeit through the forwards in all cases, yet not one Englishman in the side.

The English back row out performed both the ABs and Australians as did the English locks, (Lawes was immense) even a second string front row more than matched anything that came against them.

The backs I can understand.

I would say that the English are more about forming decent units than individual brilliance. The English pack is strong but none seem to stand out from the others. Most are underrated hence not as much representation as you would expect in the Lions.

English forwards don't generally grab headlines unless it's for errors.

Even our backs though much maligned are underrated also. None are world team candidates other than possibly Tuilagi when fit but are better than the perception.

England do have some good backs. The problem as I see it is they are absolutely all over the place when they play together. It must be a coaching thing because they dont seem to have a clue what they are doing half the time.

There seems to be abject panic in the England backline when the ball comes out to them. The passes are rushed, and awful and the movement is clumsy and lacks any kind of cohesion. The best move they have is the old 12, 13 decoy with the pass to the FB joining the line. The thing is that niether 12 or 13 run supporting lines afterwards. They seem to stop and then look around.

It reminds me of my 8 year old rugby team at primary school where the wings were often doing cartwheels or pulling branches off trees instead of paying attention to the game.

It's an embarrassment to be honest.

GloriousEmpire wrote:There seems to be abject panic in the England backline when the ball comes out to them. The passes are rushed, and awful and the movement is clumsy and lacks any kind of cohesion.  The best move they have is the old 12, 13 decoy with the pass to the FB joining the line. The thing is that niether 12 or 13 run supporting lines afterwards. They seem to stop and then look around.

It reminds me of my 8 year old rugby team at primary school where the wings were often doing cartwheels or pulling branches off trees instead of paying attention to the game.

It's an embarrassment to be honest.

GE you are absolutely spot on in your asessment.

1. Marco Ayerza
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Tendai Mtawarira
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Richie McCaw (c)
7. Willem Alberts
8. Keiran Read
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Dan Carter
11. Julian Savea
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Conrad Smith
14. Ben Smith
15. Israel Folau

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Tony Woodcock
18. Liam Messam/Francois Louw
19. Ben Franks
20. Aaron Smith
21. Willie Le Roux
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Bryan Habana

Mick Cleary produced a team of the Autumn Internationals for the Telegraph. Incidentally, I detest Mick Cleary.

15. Israel Folau
14. Julian Savea
13. Wesley Fofana
12. Jean de Villiers
11. George North
10. Quade Cooper
9. Fourie du Preez
8. Kieran Read
7. Sean O'Brien
6. Tom Wood
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Eben Etzebeth
3. Owen Franks
2. Bismarck du Plessis
1. Cian Healy

Rugby Fan wrote:Mick Cleary produced a team of the Autumn Internationals for the Telegraph. Incidentally, I detest Mick Cleary.

15. Israel Folau
14. Julian Savea
13. Wesley Fofana
12. Jean de Villiers
11. George North
10. Quade Cooper
9. Fourie du Preez
8. Kieran Read
7. Sean O'Brien
6. Tom Wood
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Eben Etzebeth
3. Owen Franks
2. Bismarck du Plessis
1. Cian Healy

AH! The old "pick the players I noticed doing some obvious" approach. DdP, really? crikey. Tom Wood? Really? SOB??? REALLY? Lawes? REALLY?. Interesting that just THREE of the all conquering All Blacks are good enough for his side, and one ponderously is Owen Franks, and another if Julean Savea on the wrong wing.

Looks to me like Rugby Heaven have selected a side primarily based on the big performances that the Wallabies faced.

I would have had Conrad Smith at 13 ahead of Davies. Very surprised that Louw or Alberts didn't make the backrow, particularly behind Messam. And thought Aaron Smith played below his ability for too many games to warrant selection here, especially on the European tour.

Not sure SOBs inclusion is that much of a surprise. Had a good November.

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure SOBs inclusion is that much of a surprise. Had a good November.

Would have had FLouw or Willem Alberts ahead of one big SOB game tbh

I can understand picking players like Adam Jones, Jd2, If they was fully fit and playing in the recent Ais. But just pick them on reputation is not really right is it?

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure SOBs inclusion is that much of a surprise. Had a good November.

Would have had FLouw or Willem Alberts ahead of one big SOB game tbh

Of course you would, you are South African.

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure SOBs inclusion is that much of a surprise. Had a good November.

Would have had FLouw or Willem Alberts ahead of one big SOB game tbh

Alberts was poor vs the Abs in both matches. Couldnt keep up with the play and hardly featured.

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure SOBs inclusion is that much of a surprise. Had a good November.

Would have had FLouw or Willem Alberts ahead of one big SOB game tbh

Alberts was poor vs the Abs in both matches. Couldnt keep up with the play and hardly featured.

Fortunately he was outstanding in the other 10 matches he played this season.

Bullsbok wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure SOBs inclusion is that much of a surprise. Had a good November.

Would have had FLouw or Willem Alberts ahead of one big SOB game tbh

Alberts was poor vs the Abs in both matches. Couldnt keep up with the play and hardly featured.

Fortunately he was outstanding in the other 10 matches he played this season.

says something then doesnt it...

Alberts hardly played in the 1st test against the AB's.

Came off for Strauss to replace Bismark so I guess we'll never really know how he could've performed.

But no denying that he has had an amazing year. Jake White at the Sharks will only improve hin

Well as we all seem to be tooting the horn for our national teams stars can I just add that ............. no Irish player should be anywhere near this list.  We were terrible in the 6Ns. Our Lions tourists were on the periphery of a Wales centric Lions trip which just about got past an Australia side that was at it lowest ebb in a number of decades.  The AIs produced an expected result against Samoa, a terrible display against Australia and a terrific (be it fruitless) showing against NZ.  So there is no consistency over the year to nudge an Irish player into that list for our exploits in 2013.

In picking this list, 1-15 should start off as NZ as they were undefeated and then a consistent excellence is required by someone to have one of their players put in front of the incumbent.

1.Marcos Ayerza
2.Bismarck DuPlessis
3.Adam Jones
4.Tukula Lokotui
5.Brodie Retalick
6.Richie McCaw (c)
7.Willem Alberts
8.Kieron Read
9.Will Genia
10.Dan Carter
11.George North
12.Ma'a Nonu
13.Conrad Smith
14.Juan Martin Hernandez
15.Mike Brown

MMaaxx wrote:Alberts hardly played in the 1st test against the AB's.

Came off for Strauss to replace Bismark so I guess we'll never really know how he could've performed.

But no denying that he has had an amazing year. Jake White at the Sharks will only improve hin

yes he did have a good year and with a focus on his fitness over the summer should be ready for anything next year. Just needs to get the physical balance right. Was super impressed with him vs England a couple of years ago.

Taylorman wrote:

MMaaxx wrote:Alberts hardly played in the 1st test against the AB's.

Came off for Strauss to replace Bismark so I guess we'll never really know how he could've performed.

But no denying that he has had an amazing year. Jake White at the Sharks will only improve hin

yes he did have a good year and with a focus on his fitness over the summer should be ready for anything next year. Just needs to get the physical balance right. Was super impressed with him vs England a couple of years ago.

I still have nightmares over those games, he battered us. It's tricky, I think on balance he's had a better year than Messam, but Messam clearly outplayed him so I can see how he sneaks in.

Did Mccaw have a good year or does he just get on these things on name alone these days ? I actually saw him being beaten or pinged regulalry at the breakdown during the AI's, he also looks alot more cumbersome than he used to. Hooper and Louw were immense all year, don't get me wrong Richie is a legend and his influence as a captain and just seeing him on the field is HUGE for the all blacks, but just on playing merit i would say there are probably better 7's in new zealand these days let alone the international stage.