Roger Lewis' latest media offerings

Having watched Roger Lewis on Scrum V over the weekend, it seems to me that he is suggesting that the rug will be pulled from under the Welsh Region's feet if they don't sign the new WRU agreement. Central contracts have also been mentioned in the media. Is this PRL/ERC spat the moment where the WRU kill off the regions as we know them and bring about a new regional arrangement wholly financed and run by the WRU?

He seemed pretty keen on making the point that they need to sign the new deal didn't he. Interesting times.

I suspect that roger Lewis is firing several shots across the regions bows. Seems to me he is unhappy they will not countenance Central Contracts and that they have been talking to PRL. So he issues the threat, they have to sign the new deal or face extinction. Thing is why spend all that money on a review - that recommended the PRGB and then ignore it 100%?

The world of rugby gets even murkier it seems.

I don't have a problem with the regions needing to sign a new agreement - that stands to reason, and given everything that's happened with the PRL and the LNR, I wouldn't want the regions calling the shots entirely; but I hope he's not saying that the terms of the agreement are non-negotiable and that the regions will have no input other than to sign (or not to sign).

Can anyone tell me what the terms of the current agreement are? I'm supremely lazy and can't be bothered to look it up.

"Lewis told the PRGB at its last meeting the WRU would not release the promised extra £1m it pledged to provide to help keep Wales’ soon to be out of contract stars – people like skipper Sam Warburton, Leigh Halfpenny, Jonathan Davies, Adam and Alun Wyn Jones and Ian Evans – at home unless the regions all signed another participation agreement."

Love a bit of Roger Lewis style Blackmail on a tuesday morning.

Hardly blackmail, if you don't sign a new contract with your employer you can hardly be expected to stilll receive the perks

To be fair if the £1M will probably be part of the participation agreement, along with the £6M for player release, WQ player quotas, etc.

Also, from watching scrum v I seem to remember Lewis saying something about compromise regarding the discussions with the regions. It'll be interesting to know who's asking for more, both or one or the other and will it end somewhere in between.

Remember that the current agreement was on the back of the regions going to court and being forced into releasing their players outside the international window. They've had a few years with the current deal and both will have things they're not happy with.

Lewis simply answered a question about what happens if they don't sign it. Openly and in detail but it was still an answer. He hasn't just come out to warn the regions (no doubt they already know).

I am not a fan of Roger Lewis at all, but I fully understand what he is saying. With there being a rebelion on the hands of the RFU and FFR I think he is making it clear to the regions that if they want to join in a rebelion then they will find that they will no longer recieve any funding from the WRU, and will also be replaced in the Pro12. It makes sense to me for the WRU to want to take a hard line on this right now, especially when you get mouthpeices for the PRL making comments about how the Ospreys, Ulster and Edinburgh (the teams he said on Scrum V, but I assume he means us all), would be welcome to join in the RGC, but they will have to deal with their control issues with their own regions themselves.

At least the WRU are making their feelings clear unlike the RFU who seem to oblivious to everything

The RFU participation agreement runs out in 3 years. The WRU one needs renewing before the end of this year. If the clubs form a competition without union approval they be removed from rugby union. That would apply to anyone. All the teams know that. And at no point have the PRL suggested they would do that.

Note the RFU, WRU, FIR, SRU and IRFU have NOT said they won't approve their teams in the CC.

HammerofThunor wrote:The RFU participation agreement runs out in 3 years. The WRU one needs renewing before the end of this year. If the clubs form a competition without union approval they be removed from rugby union. That would apply to anyone. All the teams know that. And at no point have the PRL suggested they would do that.

Note the RFU, WRU, FIR, SRU and IRFU have NOT said they won't approve their teams in the CC.

I think that Roge's statement sort of hammers that point home to the Scrum V only fans.

munkian wrote:Hardly blackmail, if you don't sign a new contract with your employer you can hardly be expected to stilll receive the perks

I see it as that 1m is part of the current agreement so to tangle it above them with the condition of signing a new one is a bit off.

gcBlues wrote:

munkian wrote:Hardly blackmail, if you don't sign a new contract with your employer you can hardly be expected to stilll receive the perks

I see it as that 1m is part of the current agreement so to tangle it above them with the condition of signing a new one is a bit off.

The £1m was not part of the agreement. However, when it was first mentioned I can't remember it ever being mentioned that it was conditional, depending on the regions signing up or not. But that said just because it was not mentioned in the press it does not mean that the regions were not made aware of this, as to be fair the press coverage was pretty vague about it, and I believe all that was mentioned was the WRU were going to put an extra £1m aside for the regions to use to retain their lions players. I can't ever remember seeing how it was going to be shared out, or if it was a first come first served thing.

I actually quite liked his answers, he was straight down the line of the matter. He seemed to want the regions on side - not that £1m gets that far across the 4 regions but its fair that they need to sign a new agreement to be entitled to more free money.

As someone else mentioned thoyhg, I hope the regions have a bit more input than signing or not signing - its about time the WRU and regions actually started working together....

I wont hold my breathe mind.

I don't think "kill off the Regions" is the best term to use, is it? RRW wouldn't sign if the contract says they will be killed off. If the WRU do issue central contracts to some players then they're likely to stay put, which the Regional teams would agree to.

The Saint wrote:I don't think "kill off the Regions" is the best term to use, is it? RRW wouldn't sign if the contract says they will be killed off. If the WRU do issue central contracts to some players then they're likely to stay put, which the Regional teams would agree to.

Didn't the WRU say they would offer Central Contracts but take back the £6M a year to pay for it? The regions wanted the £6M AND to stop paying their biggest players.

HammerofThunor wrote:

The Saint wrote:I don't think "kill off the Regions" is the best term to use, is it? RRW wouldn't sign if the contract says they will be killed off. If the WRU do issue central contracts to some players then they're likely to stay put, which the Regional teams would agree to.

Didn't the WRU say they would offer Central Contracts but take back the £6M a year to pay for it? The regions wanted the £6M AND to stop paying their biggest players.

Eh? This would be the same offer to centrally contract players the WRU-instigated PwC report stated the WRU couldn't afford, yeah? I'd start taking anything person of african descent says with a pinch of salt if I were you. That's before we get into the other things the WRU expect the regions to deliver in return for their £1.5m a year.

Stone Motif wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

The Saint wrote:I don't think "kill off the Regions" is the best term to use, is it? RRW wouldn't sign if the contract says they will be killed off. If the WRU do issue central contracts to some players then they're likely to stay put, which the Regional teams would agree to.

Didn't the WRU say they would offer Central Contracts but take back the £6M a year to pay for it? The regions wanted the £6M AND to stop paying their biggest players.

Eh?  This would be the same offer to centrally contract players the WRU-instigated PwC report stated the WRU couldn't afford, yeah?  I'd start taking anything person of african descent says with a pinch of salt if I were you.  That's before we get into the other things the WRU expect the regions to deliver in return for their £1.5m a year.

What on earth did you type to get that auto correct?!

Griff wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

The Saint wrote:I don't think "kill off the Regions" is the best term to use, is it? RRW wouldn't sign if the contract says they will be killed off. If the WRU do issue central contracts to some players then they're likely to stay put, which the Regional teams would agree to.

Didn't the WRU say they would offer Central Contracts but take back the £6M a year to pay for it? The regions wanted the £6M AND to stop paying their biggest players.

Eh?  This would be the same offer to centrally contract players the WRU-instigated PwC report stated the WRU couldn't afford, yeah?  I'd start taking anything person of african descent says with a pinch of salt if I were you.  That's before we get into the other things the WRU expect the regions to deliver in return for their £1.5m a year.

What on earth did you type to get that auto correct?!

I think the internet police cottoned on to my spelling of Rog with a wubbelyoo  

 

Am I the only one who feels that rugby is quite low down on Roger Lewis's list of priorities, and some way behind turning a profit? Even worse for the Regions, rugby at that level is even further down his list of priorities? It does sometimes feel as if Rugby is only important as it helps sell out the MS, and this happens even when Regions are not doing so well, so he may feel he does not need them funded at all.

"Dear Mr Lewis, could you please give us your 3 main priorities as the man in charge of Welsh rugby"
"Hmm, my first accountability is to ensure we make a profit, second is to keep filling our state of the art stadium so we can pay off the debt"
"And the 3rd"
"Let me think.......I guess it is to make sure that our world beating performers are kept happy"
"Aha, so you intend to keep our best players in Wales?"
"What!? No, I mean I need to make sure Justin Bieber gets his M&Ms"
"so no interest in rugby maters?"
"Of Course I am interested - that is why we have offered to host World Cup matches"
"Yes but the Welsh team?"
"Oh, them - well yeah they pull in the punters"
"And the Regions?"
"Who....."

No, you're not the only one. Although you missed one of his other main priorities: listening to his own voice.

I have said many times before that Lewis and Dickering have not got any interest in rugby or the Regions.

They are only interested in turning a profit and the corporate/hospitality deals they can get out of the MS.

If there's no european rugby next year then the Celtic unions will make more of the Pro12. The WRU will probably pull the rug if the regions try to go with the PRL and it is very unlikely that they will survive on the basis that they will need regular rugby to survive. I can't see the PRL admitting our regions to the AP which only leaves the champions cup.

Without the HC there will be a shortfall in money and the regions will be under tremendous financial pressure. They could only survive by lowering the salary cap which would mean yet more players leaving. The only counter to this is an improved Pro12 (if the Irish decide it's worth playing their stars in Rabo matches) bringing in better crowds.

Honestly, I can see the various benefactors throwing the towel in. I think if the Regions lose the HC and don't have a replacement they will be vulnerable. If the WRU offer to take on their debts and centrally contract the players then I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see the money men give in. In that case expect an East Wales side in CAP, a West Wales side in the Liberty and a North Wales side in Parc Eirias.

Not a certain vision of the future but one I think the WRU has in reserve.

There will be a europen cup -- perhpas a diminished one but there will be one.

TJ,

I agree and have said all along that there will be a comp of some sorts.

TJ wrote:There will be a europen cup -- perhpas a diminished one but there will be one.

Even if that happens, the financial difficulty may still force the benefactors hands. A diminished European cup means diminished crowds and diminished revenues.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

TJ wrote:There will be a europen cup -- perhpas a diminished one but there will be one.

Even if that happens, the financial difficulty may still force the benefactors hands. A diminished European cup means diminished crowds and diminished revenues.

The revenues from the ERCs deal with sky will still stand, so the TV money will be there.

maestegmafia wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

TJ wrote:There will be a europen cup -- perhpas a diminished one but there will be one.

Even if that happens, the financial difficulty may still force the benefactors hands. A diminished European cup means diminished crowds and diminished revenues.

The revenues from the ERCs deal with sky will still stand, so the TV money will be there.

Are we certain of this? I would imagine Sky would be pretty miffed if the Franglo's offski and would have their lawyers on the case looking to pull out. Even if they can't, how long does that buy the regions? Seems somewhat precarious to me. Just been reading the latest from RRW in the E.Post. I don't blame them for keeping shtwm. They must be very worried about all this.

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/european-cup/11356/welsh-get-euro-cup-deadline-of-october-31/

Whatever happens between RRW and the WRU I think we will get to hear soon enough ...

... not that I am any fan of Peter Jackson in any way!  

maestegmafia wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

TJ wrote:There will be a europen cup -- perhpas a diminished one but there will be one.

Even if that happens, the financial difficulty may still force the benefactors hands. A diminished European cup means diminished crowds and diminished revenues.

The revenues from the ERCs deal with sky will still stand, so the TV money will be there.

Surely if Sky back tracked on the tv deal then there would be some sort of compensation as for the crowds even in the HC the Regions never regularly had sell out crowds.

For sure it would be less money total but we would have the 25% the english get to distribute as well

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

TJ wrote:There will be a europen cup -- perhpas a diminished one but there will be one.

Even if that happens, the financial difficulty may still force the benefactors hands. A diminished European cup means diminished crowds and diminished revenues.

The revenues from the ERCs deal with sky will still stand, so the TV money will be there.

Surely if Sky back tracked on the tv deal then there would be some sort of compensation as for the crowds even in the HC the Regions never regularly had sell out crowds.

Consider however the argument that the ERC would fail to deliver on their contract with Sky if the Franglo's are not there next year. Also if you are saying we didn't have great crowds anyway then they're going to get even worse. It just doesn't look good to me. I can't imagine that an organisation with a Murdoch involved wouldn't have a get out clause in the event of an unfavourable change in the product they are buying. I might be wrong and we get a few years reprieve ... but then what kind of sponsorship will ERC then be able to negotiate without franglo participation?

I genuinely think the Pro 12 will be the big focus for the Celts after next season but the looming changes are going to mean that for Wales at least, the regional landscape will change dramatically. It'll be professional regional rugby Jim, but not as we know it.

Given that the Sky deal was signed a number of months after the Franglos gave notice of their withdrawal, I don't think there is a chance in hell that an operator like Sky didn't write in get-out or renegotiation clauses to cover the eventuality of them following through with it.

maestegmafia wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

TJ wrote:There will be a europen cup -- perhpas a diminished one but there will be one.

Even if that happens, the financial difficulty may still force the benefactors hands. A diminished European cup means diminished crowds and diminished revenues.

The revenues from the ERCs deal with sky will still stand, so the TV money will be there.

The revenues from the ERCs deal with sky will NOT still stand, so the TV money will NOT be there.

nice