4th Ashes Test Durham

First topic message reminder :

Half way there already.

will England finally change the batting around?

will the stop picking their favourites and give the obvious choices like Onions at home a chance? (Though Bresnan and broads bowling here would suggest not, show sweat I know).

Enjoy the holiday.

When England are winning Holding is like a fly you don't notice.. Nothing he can say that will annoy us!

Great test match this one. Durham is a superb track. Respect to the ground

hampo171 wrote:
For it to be even Australia will have to start showing they can win games. It's been seven months without a win for them now, that dents morale and also self belief. 

England start batting well then it is very much their series to lose down under.

 Yes that's true.  If eng sort their batting it will be a good contest.
 
I think the aussie bowling has lots of options a been said but up here the main dangers have been Harris and Siddle.  Maybe down under others will do better.  I think England have a few more bowlers than espn (who wrote them off as a one man band) suggest though.

3-0 even when you're not batting well is something to be applauded for sure.  They can get better and need to.

I see they reckon the Oval will be suited to Swanns tastes.

Can you imagine how much we will beat them by when we start batting well?!?!  

What the hell happened?!

I went out for a couple of hours, 100+ runs for 3 only to get home to find England had won. To be honest I'm not surprised, but still, Australia should have won that test and it is a disgrace to australian cricket that they didn't. It just goes to show how weak Australia are as a side just now.nback to the drawing board, sem positives to be taken, but overall, simply not good enough.

However, Broad has been very very good for England. I don't want to take away any of the credit he deserves because he has been fantastic.

Congratulations England fans, well deserved. Hopefully Australia can give you some better competition next series and finish this one off with a win to salvage some pride.

Brilliant piece from the Guardian

"This be the Word
There was a boy. And the boy was doubted.

Over time, the boy became a man. Many runs did He score and many times voices were raised to proclaim His centuries, bringing great joy to His people. And yet still He was doubted.

Some called Him king. The doubters did not call Him king. The doubters saw flaws, His followers saw a man of their ilk, human in His fallibility. The doubters saw weakness, His followers saw a different kind of strength, one that echoed their own path. The doubters spat bile, His followers lifted their shields to deflect those words of hate, and the hate was turned upon them. Though they were few, His followers were bold and had great courage. They bowed their heads and braved the taunts and the endless torture of the beast Magraa in 2005, replayed not on televisions but upon the very plasma screens of their souls.

Springs followed winters. Summers followed springs. Leaves lived and fell. Years passed.

And lo, the Ashes of 2013 began. And lo, He did put the Australian bowlers to the sword with many runs. And the voices were raised in proclaimation to bring the good news of His centuries to the people of the land. Many did flock to the colosseums to see His blade flash and dab down to third man for a couple. The oversized Oompa Loompas, the Bananamen, the Flintstones, the Priests, the Borats, the Super Marios, the Scooby-Doos and Smurf after Smurf after Smurf did lift many a plastic glass in His honour.

And with each run carved into the rock of history did His doubters begin to turn their doubt upon themselves. Their eyes grew afeared as they saw what He had become. But so deep was their doubt that in the dark crevasses and cracks of their hearts they doubted still.

At last He came to the river side. And He did fail. And even those who had never given up hope shook their heads with grief and knew in their hearts that this indeed was a bloody shocking shot quite frankly. They bowed their heads. When they lifted them they saw through the tears the smiles of the doubters, their jagged teeth shining through oily jaws. And this filled their hearts with pity. And with anger. And with that they knew. They knew they still believed. They knew they still had faith.

And lo, they did come to the second dig. His comrades did fall. The sky grew black. But He did not fall. One by one they abandoned in the face of furious attack. But he did not wilt, nor did he fall to his knees and beg for the mercy of the good lord DRS. He stood. And He stood. And He stood. Until at last, with a ropey front foot prod forged from the fires deep within His soul, He made the voices of His people rise once more. For again He was a centurion.
The doubters scattered, bereft and broken. Tears did fill their eyes. Some pleaded for forgiveness. Some donned masks. Some scuttled for the dark and the filth and were welcomed back with open arms that clawed the meat from their bones even as they embraced.

And all was quiet.

The scribes came to Him and they asked him for His words.
"It was," He began, " a good challenge out there."
The scribes wrote his words on their tablets of metal and light, to be saved for the ages. But still they asked for more.
"I was pleased," He boomed, "to score a century."
He paused. Tapes whirred. Ink dripped. Breaths held.
"It was," He said at last, "a good challenge."
And the scribes were happy. For though he had no kingly words he had a kingly bearing and his with his actions he had shown he was indeed kingly.

The doubters were gone. And in their place grew hope. And the land rejoiced and sang His name.

And His name was Ian Ronald Bell.

bsando wrote:What the hell happened?!

I went out for a couple of hours, 100+ runs for 3 only to get home to find England had won. To be honest I'm not surprised, but still, Australia should have won that test and it is a disgrace to australian cricket that they didn't. It just goes to show how weak Australia are as a side just now.nback to the drawing board, sem positives to be taken, but overall, simply not good enough.

However, Broad has been very very good for England. I don't want to take away any of the credit he deserves because he has been fantastic.

Congratulations England fans, well deserved. Hopefully Australia can give you some better competition next series and finish this one off with a win to salvage some pride.

Some of the balls that got wickets in this innings would have gotten most batsmen out, if Australia had given all their wickets away I'd agree but the fact is Broad bowled one of this spells where he just unplayable.

Firstly, I would like to make good on my promise on Friday evening:

Duty281 wrote:In other words I will laugh at the knee-jerkers, continue with my relentless optimism, and then on Monday be toasting a 3 nil England series lead.

I really do love being English.

So, with the exception of Trebbs of course, you know who you are. The lot that said England can't bat, can't bowl, Broad shouldn't be picked, England will lose, or that there wasn't much difference in the quality between England and Australia - shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.    

Secondly, a big well done to Stuart Broad, the star of this game, who led the fightback. You could feel this game turning when he bowled the ball to get rid of Clarke and he justfiably ended up with superb match figures of 11/121. Bowled his heart out for England. Of course, Ian Bell crunched a crucial century to keep his remarkable series going, and reliable Tim chipped in whenever possible, with bat and ball. Commiserations to Harris and Rogers; their efforts were in vain.

3 nil now. England's superiority underlined emphatically.

Well done England, 12 tests without defeat!    

I doubt the selectors will make many changes for the final Test, but I hope we go with this XI:

Cook, Root, Trott, Ballance, Bairstow, Taylor, Prior, Broad, Swann, Finn, Onions/Tremlett.

Frankly he could have had another few in each innings. Could have had Rogers 3-4 times in the first innings alone. Also, anyone really concerned with Prior's form? And the fact that Swann, wonder bowler that he is, dropped 3 catches at slip, twice ones that Cool would otherwise have caught?

I left Aus safe from work at aboput 160-2 ...counting my returns, small bets on Aussie win.....and a couple of hours later in the extended session boy it was an unbelievable crash...a perfect choke.

I will never put money on Australia again.

And that is a lovely piece HB, thanks for sharing.

KP_fan wrote:I left Aus safe from work at aboput 160-2 ...counting my returns, small best on Aussie win.....and a couple of hours later in the extended session boy it was an unbelievable crash...a perfect choke.

I will never put money on Australia again.

Or maybe England, Broad in particular, were just unplayable?

2nd match-winning spell for the much maligned Broad this summer!

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:I left Aus safe from work at aboput 160-2 ...counting my returns, small best on Aussie win.....and a couple of hours later in the extended session boy it was an unbelievable crash...a perfect choke.

I will never put money on Australia again.

Or maybe England, Broad in particular, were just unplayable?

2nd match-winning spell for the much maligned Broad this summer!

i have to catch up the highllights on internet.
i was hearing BBC report that Eng found reverse and Aus crashed.

Good for England...they have won the series comprehensively

Isn't the best thing that we had nothing to complain about RE DRS!!!

mystiroakey wrote:Isn't the best thing that we had nothing to complain about RE DRS!!!

they have trundlers and stone-wallers and half the team is out of form.....yet their formula works.
Congratulations to England.

Looks like it requires a rejuvinated young Indian team to come to beat England in their own country

KP dude- You are going to have to learn to play the real game a bit better first. All that fancy boy IPL and odi stuff isn't the same !!

mystiroakey wrote:KP dude- You are going to have to learn to play the real game a bit better first. All that fancy boy IPL and odi stuff isn't the same !!

we will see SA is the big test this year later....if we come back with a drawn series.

this younger team looks much better...but are yet to be tested in tests outside of India

Australia captain Michael Clarke on TMS: "We got outplayed, Stuart Broad bowled a couple of outstanding spells and as soon as we lost Chris Rogers we found it difficult.
"We've got to play better than that - Chris and Davey (Warner) played exceptionally well but we couldn't get over the line.
"Obviously we want to perform better than we have done, we need some time to let this sink in.
"Our bowlers have done a fantastic job throughout this series, Ryan Harris was outstanding and I feel really disappointed that I've let him down."

Got to respect and feel for Clarke

oh kp fan is Indian.  makes sense now.

there is considerable Gulf between Aus and Eng still.....Eng overcame Aus I would say being at 60% potential.

If KP-gate hadn't occured against SA......they might have drawn the series.

Only in India I saw them working at near full potential..

KP_fan wrote:there is considerable Gulf between Aus and Eng still.....Eng overcame Aus I would say being at 60% potential.

If KP-gate hadn't occured against SA......they might have drawn the series.

Only in India I saw them working at near full potential..

Not sure about the SA thing, they were just too good for us last summer I think.

We do seem to have some of our better series's away from home.

Hopefully we can really hit form in Aus this winter

Maybe the pressure is off a bit away from the home fans Olly?

trebellbobaggins wrote:Maybe the pressure is off a bit away from the home fans Olly?

I guess that could be a reason, I don't really know how to explain it. I think our batsmen are more suited to conditions in other countries, especially Cook/Trott

Olly wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:Maybe the pressure is off a bit away from the home fans Olly?

I guess that could be a reason, I don't really know how to explain it. I think our batsmen are more suited to conditions in other countries, especially Cook/Trott

Totally agree on those two. I won't be at all suprised if cook produces a brilliant series down under again.

Should we have a Home test side and an Away test side?

I called it as finished tonight. As an England win. 100-0 I changed to an Australia win. And it ended up as an England win. You cannot script this series.

Well done Stuart Broad

England have a winning mentality. Aus are kicking and creaming but have nothing solid to back it up. This is going to come. They have good players. Harris could be world class. Rogers sadly is old, they need to sort that opening spot out asap.. Even though he is good how long can he last??

mystiroakey wrote:England have a winning mentality. Aus are kicking and creaming but have nothing solid to back it up. This is going to come. They have good players. Harris could be world class. Rogers sadly is old, they need to sort that opening spot out asap.. Even though he is good how long can he last??

Rogers can play until his eyes go.

Look at Hayden, they went overnight. He was decent touch, but the series vs SA in 2008/09 seemed to have aged in a 3 month period.

You gotta wonder how much longer Clarke can keep going with this back problem he has as well

ChequeredJersey wrote:Frankly he could have had another few in each innings. Could have had Rogers 3-4 times in the first innings alone. Also, anyone really concerned with Prior's form? And the fact that Swann, wonder bowler that he is, dropped 3 catches at slip, twice ones that Cool would otherwise have caught?

Spoiler:

Time to bring back Geraint I say...

Fantastic effort from Broad - I've never seen anyone who can go from bowling dross to being unplayable so quickly. When he finds that rhythm and pitches on a good length he just destroys the opposition. Pity he doesn't do it a bit more often.

What now for the Aussies though?
Seam bowling looks pretty good with the excellent Harris, hard working Siddle plus PAttinson and Starc on a 'horses for courses' basis.
Spin? Well, Lyons is a better bowler than Agar at the moment, but is that good enough?
The opening pair looked excellent and have a good balance between solidity in Rogers and flair in Warner, and Clarke at 4 is clearly top class. Beside that though, where do you go next? Watson has some talent but has to be playing as an all rounder to justify his place (doesn't convert starts to big innings enough), while Khawaja and Smith have technical problems.
Haddin has kept pretty well but been hot and cold with the bat.

Last night I slept early with Aussies 160-2 and was in a happy mood. I went to bed with a cheerful mode but when I woke up and checked Cricinfo, I was shocked.
Your words continued treb. Congrats!!!!
Congrats to all the English fan here. England just took out victory from the mouth of Australia, thanks to Broad.
No words left to console Australia and myself!!!!!!

As bowling performances go, that was right up there with anything I've ever seen from an England bowler in an Ashes Test. Stuart Broad deserves a massive fry up this morning, cooked for him by Jonathan Trott and using eggs, bacon and sausages from Alastair Cook's farm.

Fantastic from Broad, it really looked like the game was up but that was a spell that will be remembered for a long time. Oval 2009, Trent Bridge 2011 and now add Chester-le-Street 2013 to the list of Broad's innings wrecking bowling.

I have noted the ye of no faith comments on here but I think it was fair to criticise England after day 1 - that batting performance was not good enough. So let's not bury our heads in the sand about the batting issues, I hope we make some changes for the final Test as the middle order rescue act is not going to go on forever.

Its been the bowlers and Ian Bell with a bit of support from Kevin Pietersen who have carried England in this series. They can't expect the bowling to bail the batting out each and every time. It is instructive to note that Australia took the first innings lead in 3 of the 4 matches so far. As they've won the series already, I don't see Joe Root being moved down to 6. But someone like James Taylor needs to be given a go, Jonny Bairstow isn't really doing his job at 6, you can't have only so many unconverted starts. And England need Matt Prior to get back to form pretty soon. His place is under no question, but Prior's lack of runs are hurting the team badly.

Cook has three 50s in this series, plus he's the captain, so he stays.
Root has only 1 score above 30, and that was a 180. His place should be under threat.
Trott has a 50 plus a 49 and a 48, so he stays.
KP stays.
Bell stays.
Bairstow has scores of 37, 15, 67, 20, 22, 14 and 28. I think he stays. While he's not exactly kicked on, he has put some runs on the board at crucial times.

So looking at that, the only one under real pressure is Joe Root, and they won't drop him with the series already won.

KP_fan wrote:there is considerable Gulf between Aus and Eng still.....Eng overcame Aus I would say being at 60% potential.

If KP-gate hadn't occured against SA......they might have drawn the series.

Only in India I saw them working at near full potential..

Yeah, the if thing doesn't mean much, IF Steyn was not injured in 2010 at home against England we could have won the test series, twice England managed to stay in for the draw with one wicket standing.

Biltong wrote:

KP_fan wrote:there is considerable Gulf between Aus and Eng still.....Eng overcame Aus I would say being at 60% potential.

If KP-gate hadn't occured against SA......they might have drawn the series.

Only in India I saw them working at near full potential..

Yeah, the if thing doesn't mean much, IF Steyn was not injured in 2010 at home against England we could have won the test series, twice England managed to stay in for the draw with one wicket standing.

there are IF events that are outside control.....and to me ins uch cases " IF and BUT Analysis" is meaningless.

but the KP-gate was an event well in control of England

KP_fan wrote:

Biltong wrote:

KP_fan wrote:there is considerable Gulf between Aus and Eng still.....Eng overcame Aus I would say being at 60% potential.

If KP-gate hadn't occured against SA......they might have drawn the series.

Only in India I saw them working at near full potential..

Yeah, the if thing doesn't mean much, IF Steyn was not injured in 2010 at home against England we could have won the test series, twice England managed to stay in for the draw with one wicket standing.

there are IF events that are outside control.....and to me ins uch cases " IF and BUT Analysis" is meaningless.

but the KP-gate was an event well in control of England

Even if KP was still there, England would have still lost. SA were just too good, and too hungry.

I think the biggest difference remains England know how to win tests. Australia gave them a sniff yesterday an they got bulldozed. Australia get on top and don't really know what to do with it.

GSC wrote:I think the biggest difference remains England know how to win tests. Australia gave them a sniff yesterday an they got bulldozed. Australia get on top and don't really know what to do with it.

GSC....you raise a good point.
and I agree with the theme.....I have been thinking what makes England succeed ...inspite of half their team not being at the peak of their game...

To me :

--England has demonstrated...time and again..they specilaize in winning key test match moments.

--they smell blood, they read test match situations better than other teams....are able to situationally change the game plan & raise the intensity of their game....and choke the opponent out of that situation...that they read better and read first.

--Why?
Perhaps they focus much more on test match cricket and pretty much the only team in the world that have an establishment built primarily around test matches. ( and I am not getting into the debate of whether that is good or bad)

--continuity of key personnel, and pretty much same core even when underperforming keeps the thinking aligned as a unit......the test match thinking of winning moments and session better than the opponent.

It's a model that has shown to work under almost all test match conditions.

One thing I really like about this England team is the fact they are not reliant on one or two stars to perform...someone always steps up when needed.
OK Bell has rather dominated the batting this series : but still Root and KP also have hundreds and players like Broad and Bresnan have wagged the tail when needed.
And the three Test victories have each been largely "won" by a different bowler : Jimmy at Trent Bridge , Swann at Lords and Broad here.
Helps the players keep faith in each other , and maintain a belief they can win from any situation.

I hope they don't mess about resting players for The Oval ! Some might not have been at their best in this series , but all have contributed , and are either established already or showing enough promise to have earned more chances. These players have won the Ashes , and should stick together for the finale and the trophy...

Alfie

You highlight one of the things that has been a strength for England for about the last 4 or 5 years - they find a way to win, even when the supposed stars of the team are failing. Go back a few years to the match when Broad scored his century against Pakistan, and he came in with England collapsing to 102-7 before he and (less surprisingly) Trott turned the match thoroughly on its head.

Now we have Anderson mis-firing for the last 2 matches and Swann being only good enough, so Broad and Bresnan stepped up to turn round a position that was getting close to desperate.

Bell actually has a chance to end an Ashes series with more centuries than Australia, I wonder if this has ever happened before?

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but 299 was always going to be a big ask in the last innings.
Yes, Australia got half way there with only one down and yes Broad bowled brilliantly. But I think England would still have had a chance even if Australia has been, say, 200 for three. Durham has little history when it comes to 4th innings chases, but Test cricket has had plenty of them and history said this was always going to be a difficult total to overhaul.
It's funny how the game closes down, or opens up, to the total required. Had Australia needed 400 to win they might have got 300-320. And if the total had been 500 they might, just, have got 400.

what is worrying for OZ is that we havent been anywhere near our best yet we still have a 3-0 lead!!!!