Gatland vs Rennie for next AB coach

Looks like its now a two horse race for next AB coach if named outside the current AB setup. While Gatland is ticking the boxes overseas, Rennie is certainly ticking them here. Both now lack the 'others' expertise- local versus international experience.

Rennie, with Wayne Smith aboard has just won his second, back to back sxv title with a side that mirrors the AB style of play. He did win 3 x under 20 world champ titles from 08-10 as well so will have a first hand knowledge of the NZ youth coming through the grades.

He will also be very familiar with the form of the SA and Oz players...bar the overseas boks named, probably something Meyer himself wil struggle with.

This is really what Gats needs now...NZ and SH familiarity, and gatlandball aside...Rennie is probably now winning the race.

I like Rennie, he has shown similar characteristics to Henry, rotation of his squad right through the Super XV, consistency of performances inspite of those rotations. He seems strong on focusing on squad depth, all things I haven't really seen from Gatland.

Gatland shows less flexibility and more conservatism in selections.

For me really only one choice if the All Blacks want to continue the same processes and game plans

I think rennie has to be the front runner.

Ticks all the boxes and managing an international team is over rated, look many coaches go straight from HC/S15 to international.

I know Gatland wants the All Blacks job, but in all honesty does he really have a chance?

I am not trying to talk Gatland down here but what i am asking is does Gatland have any chance of getting the All BLacks job?

I just think that Gatland is only hoping for the All Blacks coaching job
but does not have a realistic chance of getting it.

Just my opinion mind you.

Rennie probably needs to do the NH coaching stint and come back post 2015 to take the ABs through to their third consecutive World Cup.

Why does he need to do an NH stint. Surely coaching in NZ is all thats needed.

Gats has only coached in the ITM. Surely he would have to lower himself and take one of those S15 jobs, maybe do a switch with Rennie.

Does Gats even know the NZ systems and players any more.

majesticimperialman wrote:I know Gatland wants the All Blacks job, but in all honesty does he really have a chance?

I am not trying to talk Gatland down here but what i am asking is does Gatland have any chance of getting the All BLacks job?

I just think that Gatland is only hoping for the All Blacks coaching job
but does not have a realistic chance of getting it.

Just my opinion mind you.

But when you form an opinion, you have to ask yourself why. You haven't. You've just posted another anti-Gatland comment without substance.

Gatland can achieve more with Wales. There are AI's, 6 Nations and the next RWC to be played. Wales would need to pick up some good wins there for him to be within a shout. Will Rennie be staying with the Chiefs defending the Super Rugby title or will he move on before 2015?

I'm sure he's capable Saint, but do you think the appetite is there from the Welsh? A lot of agendas were revealed when things got tough with the Lions. Gatland put a lot of faith in his welsh boys and they came through for him but I wonder in light of what was said in public; whAt might have transpired in private.

I wonder if gats has more faith in Wales than they have in him.

majesticimperialman wrote:I know Gatland wants the All Blacks job, but in all honesty does he really have a chance?

I am not trying to talk Gatland down here but what i am asking is does Gatland have any chance of getting the All BLacks job?

I just think that Gatland is only hoping for the All Blacks coaching job
but does not have a realistic chance of getting it.

Just my opinion mind you.

Why do you think he doesn't have a chance. It's not as if AB coaches from Wales haven't gone to the head job before. I'm sure the AB's would love to promote from within, but Gatland does have a fairly decent international record already pal.

I would be more happy with Rennie in the mix over Gats based on the chiefs and U21 success. The lions got us thinking Gats was viable, but the way the chiefs played makes me think Rennie is the right man.

How about the clermont coach Vern Cotter? He'd be a good shout and is (unless i'm massively mistaken) a kiwi.

yappysnap wrote:How about the clermont coach Vern Cotter? He'd be a good shout and is (unless i'm massively mistaken) a kiwi.

How long is his Scotland contract?

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm sure he's capable Saint, but do you think the appetite is there from the Welsh? A lot of agendas were revealed when things got tough with the Lions. Gatland put a lot of faith in his welsh boys and they came through for him but I wonder in light of what was said in public; whAt might have transpired in private.

I wonder if gats has more faith in Wales than they have in him.

Not sure what you're getting at GE. I certainly believe Gatland has the respect and faith of all the players he coaches. The only agenda I can imagine was another rift between the Welsh and Irish players, nothing to worry about IMO. It remains to be seen whether this Lions tour will have improved this group of Wales players, they MUST get a win against South Africa. And when Wales play them in a 3 test series they must be better prepared, I'd like to see them play against the Baa-baa's and against an SA franchise, but it needs to be the first team IMO. It was a mistake not doing that before Aus when they had a game against Scotland to help their preparations.

Rennie is probably in pole position though, having won back to back Super rugby titles with a NZ team. Is this the coach that had kept Gats out of the job all those years ago?

Who on earth is Rennie? We all know that the main man at the Chiefs is Wayne Smith.

Gatland, Schmidt and Blackadder as a trio would be my tip.

Nup, main man is Rennie, he's no puppet.

Scrumdown wrote:Who on earth is Rennie? We all know that the main man at the Chiefs is Wayne Smith.

Gatland, Schmidt and Blackadder as a trio would be my tip.

So Rennie can run a successful team with some outstanding coaches? Schmidt doesn't want to be a head coach so the fact that Rennie can keep him and his squad happy sounds good to me. Gatland (since his Irish days), likes to keep his thumb on his assistants. Can't see Schmidt or Blackadder having anything to do with a set-up like that having been used to running their own show.

Gatland's chances of landing the NZ job are slim to none. He might have had a chance if he manages to get a win with Wales over a SH team though, but he will have had to work in a NZ franchise as head coach before that will happen.

By the way, Joe Schmidt & Cotter were interviewed for the job the last time (though I think Cotter's time is gone now - too much chocking from Clermont).

TBH scrumdown, the trio you've identified are terrible. Blackadder will never get near the ABs. Gats, maybe. Schmidt, well his profile is small to non-existent in NZ. I'm not even sure if you are serious or having a bubble?

ebop wrote:TBH scrumdown, the trio you've identified are terrible. Blackadder will never get near the ABs. Gats, maybe. Schmidt, well his profile is small to non-existent in NZ. I'm not even sure if you are serious or having a bubble?

Not sure how you can say blackadder will never get near the all blacks. As current head coach of the crusaders, he is surely already very near.

Over the next two years, Schmidt will be gaining experience as an intarnational coach whilst Rennie will be working at Super 15 level. If Schmidt gets Ireland to a world cup semi final or a Grand Slam then Rennie's Super 15 titles will look rather tame in comparison.

I'd also argue that a heineken cup winning coach is better prepared for international rugby than a super 15 winning coach.

Wayne Smith? Don't make me laugh.

blackadders entrance to the franchise marked the start of the non winning streak of the Saders- hes had 5 cracks at the title for 0 wins- all semis and finals admittedly but perhaps too much of a coincidence for the ABs to ignore.

Things like having a huge AB presence will be part of it but no denying he should have got them through to at least one win. Scrumdown a grand slam or world cup semi is no comparison to back to back sxv titles in terms of the AB position. We had 3 world cup semi coaches last world cup including our own. He retired...we didnt go near the pther two as replacements which would be the logical position given your argument.

What is the general Kiwi consensus on Steve Hansen? If he were to win the World Cup in England would it be expected that he keep the job? If he didn't, but came close, would he not be given another chance? Is he seen as Henry's right hand man, there to try and keep the learnt systems in place before a more dramatic makeover of the set up is required? Is Hansen not deemed a long term option?

I would guess that is dependent on New Zealand's win/loss ratio during his tenure. Under Henry, the AB's were at their best.

That's what I'd assume, but having won the Rugby Championship so convincingly last year, and, England game aside, having kept up Henry's impressive record, why so much speculation surrounding his departure?

Good discussion? I think they lost 1 or 2 (perhaps 3 at the most) per year under Henry, so if Hansen maintains that he's doing well.

Yeah fair enough, I suppose it's no different Welsh fans speculating whether one of Howley or McBryde will take over from Gatland, or Lyn or Kingsley Jones, or perhaps another foreigner, will take over once he's gone. Probably won't happen for a while, but still gets discussed.

Much like 2008 the All Blacks punched above their weight last year. A lot of changes in both years, but the injuries SA and Aussie had really improved NZ's chances. This year though is a bit of a conundrum. Aussie didn't play very well but McKenzie brings a new approach and with it the confidence in that something new may well break NZ's stranglehold on the Bledisloe. I expected a little more from SA though but it's a clean slate in the RC.

85% under Henry for 8 years is pretty impressive but isn't NZ's record against all comers 84% or something? In tests it's 75% so in fairness you have to do pretty bloody well to achieve par. Woodward didn't get it...and I think NZ's record from 98-04 was 70ish and that's the worst era from NZ in my lifetime.

I like Hansen's innovations and approach. He's got a fresh attack minded approach. Foster and McLean did better than I expected last year mind you that wasn't much. Though Hansen's attack can be neutralised with a rush umbrella formation as some teams have used, he's coached well enough to give the ABs a couple of options to keep sides guessing. Short kicking was very effective and if they can get around the umbrella Savea's wrought havoc. Just showed the cojones to get rid of Weepu's experience-Perenara and Smith I reckon will be the top 9s. Just love that we have halfbacks who do their core job well for the first time in 15 years.

Expect Rennie to have next crack at the AB job if he stays in NZ. May still get it anyway but it'd take a few more years.

Careful with those stats Disney! Someone will accuse you of arrogance!

The lack of a 'best in the world 9' hasnt helped and although we've had handy 9's- Marshall and then way back to Graeme bachop were our best, and they were never in the McCaw/ DC/ Read type quality of consistency and performance over several seasons...Perenara for me could just be that 9 we've been looking for.

Quick, talented and such a winning attitude every time he steps onto the field. He looks the type that will grab his chance when he gets it an NEVER let it go, something Aaron Smith hasnt been able to do.

Rennie has been pretty successful at a few levels coaching wise which suggests he knows what he's doing. I imagine being based in NZ would give him the inside running especially if he wins it again. There's definitely nothing more he could do in NZ to improve his case.

Taylorman wrote:The lack of a 'best in the world 9' hasnt helped and although we've had handy 9's- Marshall and then way back to Graeme bachop were our best, and they were never in the McCaw/ DC/ Read type quality of consistency and performance over several seasons...Perenara for me could just be that 9 we've been looking for.

Quick, talented and such a winning attitude every time he steps onto the field. He looks the type that will grab his chance when he gets it an NEVER let it go, something Aaron Smith hasnt been able to do.

Could well be. I personally don't see what everyone else seems to see in TKB. Can you enlighten me on that one? He seems of the early Justin Marshall ilk, ponderous stepping And a slow loopy pass, errant kicking game and a tendency to be lateral and get isolated behind the gain line. Is that really what Hansen et al are looking for?

Nah TKB is just holding fort until TJ Perenara is ready. Next year TJ will be no2 no9 and in 2015 he'll be no1 no 9.

Rennie would be a settling influence...

 

Does Gats need to do a year of S15 to learn whose who in NZ or do you feel he could just go straight into the job

I do feel that its NH people who think it will be Gats rather than those in the know

Probably fair enough that many NH fans don't know much about the coaches in NZ. I definitely only know the NZ coaches in the NH. Mind you there's enough of them.