2013 LIONS - The Negative Topic ( WARNING not for the faint hearted )

With all the other Lions topics resulting in 'my Lions are better than your Lions' arguments and the usual Wales vs. Eng dross, this topic is geared so that grumpy Lions fans can let off some steam without derailing the serious Topics for the serious 606ers or being accused of being biased and anti this and auntie that!
 
Enjoy.
 
 
I'll start - for me Gatland got it wrong from day one, his attitude and comments towards some players before he even drafted a squad was wrong and not based on rugby.  

This tour has a sense of deja vu about it, but I can't wait for the DVD!

If we get it off our chests..... won't the guys come over anyway and accuse us of being anti-this'n'that?

Have you this'n'that sound proofed this thread?

LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

You are flagrantly anti-this thread, Tiger! If you persist a mod will be called.

Well I think it was destined to be a f up from the start

Don't they all play upside down in Australia - did we train for that - DID WE?!?!

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

You are flagrantly anti-this thread, Tiger!  If you persist a mod will be called.

But isn't being anti this thread allowed as is it a thread for anti comments, so an anti - anti comment is allowed - but only when we disagree

Arrrgh - sore head now

Riskysports wrote:Well I think it was destined to be a f up from the start

Don't they all play upside down in Australia - did we train for that - DID WE?!?!

Valid point! Well spotted.. Invalid in Australia though where the games are being played. The Lions should be cited for trying to play rugby the right way up actually.

"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:COME ON WALIONS

You are flagrantly anti-this thread, Tiger!  If you persist a mod will be called.

X

Anything that I can offer to get the thread back on track?

GloriousEmpire wrote:"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!

I can't believe that FatMan shared his master plan with you, GE?

Victor

If you are talking about Gatland's comments about not wanting to take too many English players in case the tour became a circus I totally agree with that. I was completely shocked when that came out and was largely put off the Lions tour until the squad was announced with a decent contingent of England players.

I agree with a lot of the points Glorious Empire has made as well. I don't like Gatland's mindgames and I think they rarely work. I remember him having a pop at Hartley before a game once, saying he could be targeted and his line-out throwing was weak, before Hartley stuffed his words back down his mouth by putting in a fine performance.

I think Gatland was unfortunate in that his gameplan involves a crashball 12 to get the team over the gain line, a role which neither Davies or O'Driscoll can fulfill. The unfortunate part was Roberts and Tuilagi both picking up injuries before the first test. Davies was in great form and got the nod at 12, but it didn't work in the first test and we were lucky to get away with it. Tuilagi should have at least got a bench spot in the second test to change it up if it failed again - which it did.

Similar to some fans questioning why Grant did not coming on for Vunipola, why did Farrell sit on the bench when things weren't happening for Sexton? He hauled Youngs off and Murray came on and looked sharper, but Sexton still wasn't pulling the strings and Farrell was left on the bench. Sexton was the right choice for the first test and I had no problem Farrell being left on the bench when Sexton was playing well, but in the second test I thought Farrell should have been used, especially after he put in a strong performance standing flatter against the Rebels.

If you look at the back row that finished the second test, we basically finished with 3 6s. I know O'Brien is versatile, but Lancaster proved in the Six Nations that 3 blindside flankers, no matter how talented, do not make a good back row. If he chooses Lydiate as his first choice blindside that's fine, but to put two blindsides on the bench doesn't make sense. The balance was wrong because he was trying to shoehorn his favourites into the 23 (Lydiate and Croft), while including the form player (O'Brien).

Enough on Gatland, and onto the players. We threw front ball and drive twice in the lineout on Saturday, both times we won penalties. Why did we then switch to back ball? And why did we keep using back ball when it obviously wasn't working? I understand back ball is better if you want to unleash your outside backs, but it just wasn't working. Parling has to take the brunt of that criticism, brought in as a lineout guru and got that one wrong.

If it wasn't Gatland's plan to kick the leather off the ball, why did the players do it? And if it was the plan, why did the leaders not realise it wasn't working and change the plan? To be fair I suppose not much was working, but it seemed every time we got the ball in the second half we kicked it. Most of the time Australia had 5 players back to field a kick. That means they can only have 10 players defending up the pitch, why not take them on a bit and leave some doubt in the Australian players' minds? A couple of quick phases and a 20m gain might make them pull one or two players up from the deep, creating more space to kick into.

And to some of the fans, Brian Moore summed it up for me on Twitter. If you mention a players nationality either in reference to a good performance or a poor performance you don't understand what it means to be a Lion. Some of the stuff on this board hurts to read.

Those are my rants and complaints. I'll still be screaming for the Lions come the third test.

GloriousEmpire wrote:"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!

Brilliant. Love it  

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!

Brilliant. Love it  

I expected more from a Crimson fan:drumroll: 

Gatland reminds me of General Melchett in Blackadder.
Similiar battle tactics - march straight towards the enemy - as we did the last 18 times - they'll never expect us to be stupid enough to try it again!

I have said it from day one. You need more than backs who weigh in excess than 16st to beat Australia.

Although I did enjoy George North picking up an Australian and running down field with him...

GloriousEmpire

It so obvious, Gatland the plonker, should have taken the tour to a different country and selected more All Blacks. We'd win then  

[quote="GloriousEmpire"]"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!

[/quote

A "Glorious" masterclass in negativity. Well said that man.

 Pretty accurate stuff from GE.

My dad is bigger than your dad!

I win!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote: Pretty accurate stuff from GE.

Well even a broken clock is right twice a day (unless its digital)

I work with a few Welsh guys and even they think Gatland has picked certain Welsh guys on reputation alone.

This is so racist.

Please stop being racist.

 

t1000advancedprototype wrote:This is so racist.

Please stop being racist.

do u know who i feel sorry for the poor coach who is picked to take the lions to New Zealand four years time . arise sir Stuart of lancaster . Robshaw be captain

Andy Robinson has been promised the next gig  

LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

That's too clever to be really funny...

Or maybe not

Glas a du wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

That's too clever to be really funny...

Or maybe not

Edited to further enhance the spirit of unity

I AM SPARTACUS!

tigertattie wrote:I AM SPARTACUS!

Are you? Then sit on that bench and don't move...

Glas a du wrote:

tigertattie wrote:I AM SPARTACUS!

Are you? Then sit on that bench and don't move...

He said he is Spartacus. Not Ryan Grant.

COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

+1

Mid table mediocrity awaits for us if we're not careful with our resources.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

 Hmmm, the horrors of Bondi, or the sunny beaches of Leciester. Tough choice

Barbie or Balti.

LondonTiger wrote:Barbie or Balti.

Hmmm 

tigerleghorn wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

+1

Mid table mediocrity awaits for us if we're not careful with our resources.

Spend, spend, spend...........

VictorU3 wrote:
 
 
I'll start - for me Gatland got it wrong from day one, his attitude and comments towards some players before he even drafted a squad was wrong and not based on rugby.  

Interesting. And what exactly do you think the squad was based on if not rugby, a few games of backgammon?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

tigertattie wrote:I AM SPARTACUS!

Are you? Then sit on that bench and don't move...

He said he is Spartacus. Not Ryan Grant.

Now that's funny       

That was Ryan Grant saying he's Spartacus

The Saint wrote:

VictorU3 wrote:
 
 
I'll start - for me Gatland got it wrong from day one, his attitude and comments towards some players before he even drafted a squad was wrong and not based on rugby.  

Interesting. And what exactly do you think the squad was based on if not rugby, a few games of backgammon?

On evidence of last two games???? Hmmmm, tough one

 Get back on the Lithium Yappy

Any truth in the broken curfew rumour?

 There was a young poster called Glas
Who would always profer to ask
Any truth in the broken curfew rumour
Or has Gats just and gone and lost all his Humour
or am I still talking out my arxe

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TITS

Get out of that a*se hole.

Sorry.  Couldn't resist.  The devil made me do it.

He has the best Tunes.