Hogg a happy bunny or an angry bear

Quite a few discussion have come round to how Hogg has been involved in the lions and whether he should feel delighted to be there, or frustrated or angry he has been given no chance to push for a test spot

While coming on  the lions tour is a great experience, does being put into a position that means you are not even being considered for a test spot smack of favourisum, unfair selection or just a fact of life

Will this have an affect on his confidence?

Will he learn from playing in a new position?

Ultimately, will he look back a the lions tour 2013 and think, it was worth it?

So what do you think?

Of course he will be frustrated as every player wants to play. But as a back 3 player (generally) he has a lot of experienced players in front of him. You wouldn't drop Halfpenny for him would you? and on the wings George North has been tearing it up, then you also have Bowe, Cuthbert, Kearney and Zebo. There are some seriously good players there.

He is very young and could realistically go on another 3 tours. I think it will be a great learning curve for him and he will be a better player for it. He should look for the positives.

He should be on the bench. He can cover center, fullback, 10 and possibly wing.

There is another Test to come after Saturday.Worth bearing this in mind I reckon.

I would have taken Foden instead of Hogg - Great experience for the lad all the same and it should do him good in the long term

Yeh, because Foden was on absolutely sparkling form at the end of last season

I find myself in the rare and horrifying position of agreeing with Taffineastbourne. Still another Test to go. He's 20 years old - this will have been a massive experience for him regardless of what happens, and if he can continue his development (at 15!), then this will set him in good stead for the next tour.

RubyGuby wrote:I would have taken Foden instead of Hogg - Great experience for the lad all the same and it should do him good in the long term

Why is that Ruby? England's 3rd choice fullback?

Why the focus on Hogg? Substitute his name for any other player who went on tour but has been overlooked for a test - Faletau, Gray, Evans, Best, Wade, etc. Just because he's the youngest doesn't mean he needs 'mothering'.

The glass is half full with Hoggy. A Lions tour? At 20? What larks.

The only downer is that BIL set off his hayfever, apparently.

He's 20. He could still be touring in 2025 as a vet. I'm sure he knows this and knows what he needs to do now in the next 4 years to nail a test start.

Although, personally, I'd of course have preferred 3 FBs and 3 FHs. My squad would have been a couple of men bigger to accommodate this.

Seeing as that wasn't the case, when Kearney was injured for so long, I'd have sent him home and called up Hook.

I would have kept Hogg battling for 15 with substitution cameos at 10 to rest FHs. That's how he was doing it at the tail end of the Rabo.

Also I think Laidlaw would have been a good 3rd SH to have as opposed to Murray, and not because I'm Scottish. I wouldn't have considered Laidlaw as a test starter at all (at least pre-tour). You'd then have the power of Phillips, the playing-at-pace of Youngs, and the game-reader in Laidlaw, who could also move out to FH as a cameo sub.

But what do I know.

Hogg will have been over the moon to have been selected originally considering his age and experience. Add to that having 6-8 weeks with top class Management, Coaches, Mentors and Players will have improved his game and enriched himself as a person

Can't understand the OPs motive, many of us wanted him to start at 15 before the tours began and I would have rather he play FB 100% rather than been mucked around. But overall Halfpenny has proved without a shadow that he was the first choice so no complaints there, however this tour will have made him a much better player.

flyhalffactory wrote:Hogg will have been over the moon to have been selected originally considering his age and experience. Add to that having 6-8 weeks with top class Management, Coaches, Mentors and Players will have improved his game and enriched himself as a person

Can't understand the OPs motive, many of us wanted him to start at 15 before the tours began and I would have rather he play FB 100% rather than been mucked around. But overall Halfpenny has proved without a shadow that he was the first choice so no complaints there, however this tour will have made him a much better player.

Spot on, he is young enough for the next tour fitness and form allowing, he will know what is expected. I also agree with Griff lots of players in the same boat with less talented players in front of then not getting a look in. There is a case there should be a selector from each of the home Countries picking the squad and teams. I watched the third test in Aus when I Evans scored from a mistake from Campo, there was not an Irish player in the team, four Scots, three Welsh and the rest were English (Youtube), good hard game.

There are other more seasoned pros than Hogg feeling the 'unloved' cool air of being Lions also rans.

Seems some people think he was going to slip easily enough into 15....with Halfpenny there????  Even Kearney always really knew his goose was cooked.  Halfpenny was player of the 6N, he's a guaranteed points man and he has to have somehwere to play.  15 it is.

Why should Hogg feel he should have stayed at home?  That's a mood for older players who have done the time, done the hard years and still get short changed on test team selection.  Bitterness is for older players not young guys.

A few of my fellow Scots are blaming Gatland for not taking 3 FHs which has meant Hogg never got to compete properly at 15.

My take is that had they taken a 3rd fly half then Hogg would not have gone on the tour, well certainly in the original squad.

Halfpenny was always going to start and fair enough. As for not making the bench, I would still have Maitland ahead of him.

Hogg has had a great start to his career and this Tour I think will only be a positive thing.

He wanted to be in the Test team and he'll be gutted he isn't involved.

Probably more frustrated that he got stuck at 10 rather than getting a chance to impress from full-back.  It's not like Faletau was stuck at lock or Tipuric at hooker.

Obviously Halfpenny was always likely to be nailed on because of his goal kicking but he's definitely better than Kearney currently, (poor on tour and not great in 6 Nations).  As the 23rd man he'd have been a very useful and he's such an exciting counter-attacker but playing him at 10 totally eliminates that from his game.

He's going to be a cracking player over the next few seasons, show me a more exciting prospect at 15 anywhere in the world currently.

Jordan Williams, Wales U20!

Here's the spanner in the hypothetical ruminations. A third fly half was most likely intended, but came up lame at the end of the season. That, of course is Sir Jonny. If Jonny was not hurt and came on tour, how different could things have been? Would Halfpenny still be doing the kicking? And, if not, would the other fullbacks, or at least Hogg, have had more game time at 15?

No real answer. Just sharing a thought............

doctor_grey wrote:Here's the spanner in the hypothetical ruminations.  A third fly half was most likely intended, but came up lame at the end of the season.  That, of course is Sir Jonny.  If Jonny was not hurt and came on tour, how different could things have been?  Would Halfpenny still be doing the kicking?  And, if not, would the other fullbacks, or at least Hogg, have had more game time at 15?

No real answer.  Just sharing a thought............

Yes 1/2p would have been kicking
Like Stephen Jones did with Sir JW

Kick'em'all Halfpenny starting and Jonny kick'em'all Wilko coming on from the bench?

No, that would never be allowed as torture is banned by the UN. You gotta give Australia a chance to play!!! It's called rugby not golf

Anyone else think Halfpenny could be in for a rough ride on Saturday, if I were the Aussies I know who I'd be targeting.

They'd have been targeting him in the first test too. But getting to him is the issue. He doesn't get too involved in the contact areas and stays in his pocket.

1/2p is always targetted.  He's always put under the high ball.  He always climbs high, takes the ball (most of the time), and falls on his back or neck and gets up.  This will be nothing new for him.

People talk like he's new at fullback. He's a seasoned pro. He's played against the top 3 probably more than he's played against the individual home nations. He's not lacking experience.

In answer to some of the questions on why Hogg is focused on in the post, is because his circustances are different from all the others who are not selected for tests

He is the only one told to play out of position and not given a run in his best position.

So while all players got to impress in their position and push for a place, Hogg was effectively told by the second week, you have no chance of a test game, so just fill in as required

My hunch is that he'll take the positives out of it. He'll have learnt so much from training and playing with the other Lions and the great thing is that he's young enough to a) incorporate what he's learnt to his game, and b) tour with the Lions again in the future.

From a personal point of view, I'm disappointed we didn't get to see him more at full back. He's so good there for Glasgow and Scotland and it was one of the things I was looking forward to most.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:My hunch is that he'll take the positives out of it. He'll have learnt so much from training and playing with the other Lions and the great thing is that he's young enough to a) incorporate what he's learnt to his game, and b) tour with the Lions again in the future.

From a personal point of view, I'm disappointed we didn't get to see him more at full back. He's so good there for Glasgow and Scotland and it was one of the things I was looking forward to most.

+1 - totally agree, a little frustration, but would imagine overwhelmingly positive and what an opportunity at a young age.

With halfpenny there and on form, it was always going to be a tough if not impossible ask to make the test team, especially given the players some might argue Gatland has 'favoured', Halfpenny was the no brainer as 'player of the 6 nations' if you are going to have some of your test team pencilled in before you start, then that's a pretty good starting point.

Gutted we have not seen more of him at fullback, to potentially push a claims for bench cover.

Hogg is just a lad. Should have known he was probably third choice fullback. With Halfpenny taking all the kicks, he won't be coming off unless injured or matches are out of reach.

And in those cases the fly half, Sexton or Farrell, will take the kicks.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Yeh, because Foden was on absolutely sparkling form at the end of last season

I find myself in the rare and horrifying position of agreeing with Taffineastbourne. Still another Test to go. He's 20 years old - this will have been a massive experience for him regardless of what happens, and if he can continue his development (at 15!), then this will set him in good stead for the next tour.

I think Foden was still getting back to form/fitness at the time the Lions squad was announced and I've no problem with his ommission. However, his form was sparkling (as you put it) at the end of the season. Whether or not he'd have made the squad he'd certainly have given Gatland more to think about had he been playing like that earlier in the season.