The 606v2 Lions Selection RightWing

Alright guys!

I figured we could get this going to give us a bit of a heads up on the general consensus of opinions for Lions Test shirts. We'll have a starting XV in no time BUT I am going to leave vote cancelling on so people can change their minds over the next 8 days or so.

Keep the debate honest and punch above the belt.  

ps: remember this is not a prediction, it is a "who would YOU select" poll.

So far our team is

Vunipola-Youngs-Jones
Gray-POC (c)
SOB-Heaslip-Tipuric

Bowe has not been included as he will not be fit for the first test.


Cuthbert
Has looked pretty good going forward and is a proven try scorer, comes off his wing very effectively. He has looked poor enough when defense is what is required. His basics have looked pretty poor going backwards and against the Reds he was exposed as having a lack of pace.

Maitland
Has absolutely massive pace. He also links well and makes sure he finds support. He has a good kicking game and is a natural footballer, maybe doesn't have the power or vision that other options have.

Halfpenny
Is the forefront player going for fullback but could do a job on the wing. Excellent fielding and kicking skills. He is quick on his feet and a proven finisher, then again he has not played there against quality opposition in quite a while.

Ok guys get the debate started and get the votes coming in. 
Much love.
Buachaill

Interestingly looking at the poll I am the only one going for Halfpenny here.  I want the unpredictability and strike running that Hogg brings, so would move Halfpenny to the right wing to accomodate that.

I think it also gives us a great balance in the back three this way.

I thought Cuthbert would do better in this one.

I'm not sure Halfpenny offers much on the wing, from 15 he is steady and solid but you want more from your wingers IMO and I don't think Halfpenny gives you much else other than solidity and goalkicking

Not a Cuthbert fan. Want Halfpenny at Fullback. So has to be Maitland.

Halfpenny will be 15.

I cant understand why everyone goes on about Maitland. Not sure if I'm watching different games to some of you, but Maitland has done nothing at all. His chargedowned kick when at 15 nearly gave away a try, and apart from 1 run where he passed to North to finish, has been near invisible.

Cuthbert's defence has not been great, that I agree. But what's the prime role of a winger. To finish and score tries. He does that no problem.

Unless you try Billy 36 out on the wing, then Cuthbert has to be picked.

Cuthbert will start. He has an amazing record as a finisher, especially compared to Maitland. Admitedly he plays for a better national side but the way he beat Brown in the England game showed the boy is class.

He certainly has a problem with his defensive positioning at times, but I feel the positives far out weigh the negatives.

Voted for Cuthbert. He's the deadlier finisher, he's the man with big game experience, and it wound ensure the back 3 are all Welsh players. Combinations are important.

Current Try Count...

Alex Cuthbert British & Irish Lions	3
Brian O'Driscoll British & Irish Lions	3
Jonathan Davies British & Irish Lions	2
Mike Phillips British & Irish Lions	2
George North British & Irish Lions	2
Alun Wyn Jones British & Irish Lions	1
Richard Hibbard British & Irish Lions	1
Tom Croft British & Irish Lions	1
Owen Farrell British & Irish Lions	1
Geoff Parling British & Irish Lions	1

Maitland who ?

It has to be Cuthbert...

Actually, if you check the stats on the Lions website (http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/player_stats.php) Cuthbert beats Maitland in everything bar Offloads, which for a winger says something itself... ie. Maitland is getting caught.

Sorry Maitland is not in the running ... Cuthbert has to have that slot.

Have said all along that Cuthberts defence does worry but he knows how to finish, he had 3 chances 3 tries.

halfpenny, hogg full back

Four chances, three tries surely? That one he just missed v Reds was a chance.

Maitland, who has voted for him, he should not even make the bench as Hogg will be FB cover for 1/2 Penny, if a wing gets injured 1/2 will move to wing and Hogg to FB. Cuthbert is in pole position unless Gatland goes for a Kiwi.

I voted for Maitland like the others. It is a rather convincing vote of confidence & he has shown pace but unlike Cuthbert hasn't been caught out defensively.

Maitland for me as well. Cuthbert can finish, no doubt, but he looks to be lacking a bit of his normal pace - the Cuthbert of 2012 wouldn't have been caught in his run to the line against the Reds.

Cuthbert's defence is also suspect - however you want to look at it, the Lions have conceded three tries while he was on the field, and his defensive lapses were the cause of two.

Maitland is a far smarter footballer - always looking for the offload, strong in the tackle and excellent pace and agility.

However, since statistics never lie (apparently) let's compare the two:
Carries per match:
Cuthbert - 8.7
Maitland - 12

Clean breaks per match:
Cuthbert - 2
Maitland - 2.5

Defenders beaten per match:
Cuthbert - 2.3
Maitland - 5

Metres gained per match:
Cuthbert - 99
Maitland - 120.5

Offloads per match:
Cuthbert - 1
Maitland - 2.5

Tries per match:
Cuthbert - 1
Maitland - 0

Assists per match:
Cuthbert - 0.3
Maitland - 1.5

(If you don't mind, I've discounted Maitland's 3-minute cameo against Western Force because it makes the maths easier)

I think there's a reason why so many are picking Sean Maitland.

Where did those stats come from, as they bare no resemblance to those quoted on the Lions official site.

You must have got them from the SNP web site or www.stats_u_want_to_believe.com.

Tough call with Bowe injured none of the three listed has grabbed the opportunity. Other options would be Tuilagi or Zebo, if he plays well today.

sirBiggles wrote:Where did those stats come from, as they bare no resemblance to those quoted on the Lions official site.

You must have got them from the SNP web site or www.stats_u_want_to_believe.com.

Actually, I got them from the Lions website, at the link you provided. You see, I divided Cuthbert's stats by three (he having played three full matches), and divided Maitland's by two.

It's called 'mathematics', and it's taught in most schools.

Mainland so good in defence eh...

As for the stats, you mean you have adjusted them in your favour.... I take it back, it's not SNP website, it's straight out of the Conservative handbook.

sirBiggles wrote:Mainland so good in defence eh...

As for the stats, you mean you have adjusted them in your favour.... I take it back, it's not SNP website, it's straight out of the Conservative handbook.

Ugly, ugly post.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I thought Cuthbert would do better in this one.

I'm not sure Halfpenny offers much on the wing, from 15 he is steady and solid but you want more from your wingers IMO and I don't think Halfpenny gives you much else other than solidity and goalkicking

Halfpenny plays in a different manner on the wing.  He's only been playing FB internationally for a year and a half, he made his name as an exciting winger in the 4 years preceding that and was good enough to be selected there for the Lions in 2009 until injury forced him to withdraw from the tour.

I think he's a better winger than a FB and playing there limits some of his best qualities, but that's where his club & country have less options in comparison.

Niwatts

great disply at fullback by halfpenny and not so good by maitland today. Zebo looked electric and in my opinion would have made the starting squad if he hadnt have been injured in the six nations

Maitland has probably dropped back in the reckoning today, not because of his defence but he didn't get involved enough IMO. He really needed to be tracking across into the midfield, making support runs and getting on the end of half-breaks to make his case for selection but I didn't see enough of that. I wouldn't make too much of that one missed tackle, but for the above reasons I don't think he's done enough to make the squad for the first test now.

Maybe we should re-run the poll Maitlaand was a joke today looked way out of his depth.

I'd go for Cuthbert. Much better try scorer. I'm surprised Maitland has so many votes. Is Cuthbert's defence really that bad? Because Maitland has been very ordinary.

Let's put Mark Cueto on the wing. He's scored a sh!tload of international tries.

Let's put Mark Cueto on the wing. He's scored a sh!tload of international tries.

Could also go for Dave Strettle who's scored eff all...

Right wing is a bit worrying if you want to keep Halfpenny at full-back (which we should).

Cuthbert and Maitland haven't really impressed.

maestegmafia wrote:Niwatts

great disply at fullback by halfpenny and not so good by maitland today. Zebo looked electric and in my opinion would have made the starting squad if he hadnt have been injured in the six nations

It certainly was, he's a quality player, probably would have looked even better on the wing.

11 North
14 Halfpenny
15 Hogg

Where are all the voters for Maitland, gone very quiet, Why was he selected Visser is far sharper and is as bad in defence at least he can score tries.

If I was allowed to change my vote, I would.

Wade!

I personally don't think Maitland deserves the level of criticism he's getting on this forum. Yes he missed an obvious tackle today and he will know that but I think he has been a very good link player in the games so far, less flashy than others but effective in his own way. Sure, he hasn't scored any tries but he's been involved in plenty of assists and I don't think he's actually had that many scoring opportunities come his way anyway.
I wouldn't discount him quite yet,if he plays in a Test I think he'll do his job fine.

LondonTiger wrote:If I was allowed to change my vote, I would.

I believe that's a function that the OP or the mods can make available. Would be interesting to see the result if it was.

Completely agree with MacKnocked. For a period of time after games, I just stay away from these boards because of the staggering overreaction that seems to happen after games - people spraying around notional ratings out of ten which appear to have no moderation or baseline apparently being a particular favourite. A lot of people here seem hopelessly unable to judge players based on form in matches over the past couple of weeks, rather than isolated incidents which suit their own personal agendas, sometimes lasting three seconds or less.

Do I think Owen Farrell deserves the volley of criticism levelled at him for throwing some light passes and kicking possession away? Of course not. Is Hibbard suddenly miles behind Youngs because he's overthrown a couple to the tail? Don't be ridiculous. Is Maitland suddently worthy of comments like "we should have taken someone else" because he made some defensive mistakes? I think it's fairly obvious that the answer is 'no'. Maitland will be the first to realise that by his standards he didn't have a good game today and currently sits behind Cuthbert in the pecking order but to suggest that he is suddenly appalling and worthy of 'scores' that are literally half that of his colleagues is embarrassing.

He will do fine in a test match - he has too much experience in high level rugby for that not to be the case. Will he start next weekend? Maybe not but as been said many times, it's a matter of opinion. If you think that wingers are just there to dot the ball down, then by all means choose Cuthbert and Gats probably will. But to suggest that someone like Cuthbert, Zebo or Wade will automatically be better in that slot is based on nothing more than bias and wishful thinking. It's impossible to know whether one player would have made a run, a tackle or an offload that another did or didn't make although apparently that doesn't stop a number of people trying. Whoever fits Gats' plan best will get the shirt - it's that simple and one thing is for sure - the Lions doesn't work unless the form players get rewarded.

GC, I echo your sentiments exactly, yes SM missed a tackle today, Cuthbert missed one last weekend and was vilified on here, even though he was obstructed, I'm Welsh and an Ospreys ST holder, there is another supposed Ospreys supporter on here who has vilified Farrell since the start of this tour, for IMO not any strong reasons, this person slagged Dan Biggar off on these forums at the start of last season (2012/13) saying he had a terrible start to the previous season, when in actual fact he was voted player of the month and 3rd 2 months later on the Ospreys forum, he was also saying that Rhys Webb was a better scrum half than Khan Fotuali'i, Webb almost single handidly lost us our play off ambitions this last season. IMO the only player that hasn't justified his inclusion on this tour and was a controversial choice in the first place is Matt Stevens, the rest have done an OK and upwards contribution on the field, and who knows what off.

I think Wade would add a whole new dimension.

Learn from England's mistakes: Don't put a good fullback on the wing unless he has a lot of experience there.

Cuthbert is one dimensional. Zebo and Wade offer a lot more, but otherwise Maitland.

wayne wrote:GC, I echo your sentiments exactly, yes SM missed a tackle today, Cuthbert missed one last weekend and was vilified on here, even though he was obstructed, I'm Welsh and an Ospreys ST holder, there is another supposed Ospreys supporter on here who has vilified Farrell since the start of this tour, for IMO not any strong reasons, this person slagged Dan Biggar off on these forums at the start of last season (2012/13) saying he had a terrible start to the previous season, when in actual fact he was voted player of the month and 3rd 2 months later on the Ospreys forum, he was also saying that Rhys Webb was a better scrum half than Khan Fotuali'i, Webb almost single handidly lost us our play off ambitions this last season. IMO the only player that hasn't justified his inclusion on this tour and was a controversial choice in the first place is Matt Stevens, the rest have done an OK and upwards contribution on the field, and who knows what off.

Now who do you mean let me think?

Totally agree with your sentiments. so much constant negativity it is becoming tiresome.