The 606v2 Lions Selection Tighthead

Alright guys!

I figured we could get this going to give us a bit of a heads up on the general consensus of opinions for Lions Test shirts. We'll have a starting XV in no time BUT I am going to leave vote cancelling on so people can change their minds over the next 8 days or so.

Keep the debate honest and punch above the belt.  

ps: remember this is not a prediction, it is a "who would YOU select" poll.


Cole
Cole looked really good when he came on in one of his recent tests IMO. He is a good scrummager from tighthead, maybe not Jones' standard but not a million miles off. What has impressed me about him, and always has, is his level of aggression at the breakdown. When he gets to a ruck he slows opposition ball down not by guile or holding illegally he just makes a mess of the ruck. He disrupts it through his power. Considering the Aussies are going to want quick ball to get away from the big Lions pack, maybe Cole is a good option to help out our backrow in this regard.

Jones
Has been the favourite for some time to be first choice. He is an undoubtedly great scrumming player and brings a lot of experience and adaptability to that area. He moved pretty well for a lad his size in the Hong Kong humidity and heat but quite like Ireland's Mike Ross, he ends up standing pillar defender a lot of the time, obviously it's the best place for him, but it means his work rate is not very impressive in the loose. He is not a good carrier but again does bring that huge scrumming power and discipline.

Stevens
A wild card in most people's eyes for a touring spot. He has shown up ok in Australia. He is a bit more dynamic than the other two in terms of carrying but there is something very awkward about him in terms of his body shape in contact. He is a fair scrummager and does a bit at the breakdown but doesn't seem to excel at any one element of play.


Ok guys get the debate started and get the votes coming in. 
Much love.
Buachaill

Tough call between Cole's huge workrate and strength at the breakdown compared to Jones' awesome scrummaging power.

I went for Jones because if we can dominate the scrum with certainty we'll have the backs to win this series.

Not a bad shout Rugger but which is more important, the scrum or the breakdown?? I know which one happens more often anyways!

I think Cole is a good scrummager (Jones would be a very good scrummager) but Cole could really make mince meat of the Aussie quick ball where as Jones could be a liability in that regard as they will target him in defense due to his lack of mobility.

If both teams go out to throw the ball around, knock ons will be common, and so will scrums. I'm kind of thinking the correct back 5 combo will do the business at the breakdown. I await the polls for them

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:If both teams go out to throw the ball around, knock ons will be common, and so will scrums. I'm kind of thinking the correct back 5 combo will do the business at the breakdown. I await the polls for them

They'll be up in the next bit sir, looking forward to hearing your views on it. 

Rain for all three tests would be very good IMO.

It will be interesting to see how this compares to the similar votes from post six nations this year and last.

Jones for me. I think we need to absolutely dominate the scrum in order that that the penalties that inevitably come from the scrum these days aren't a 50-50 with the ref. 
Cole is a great player, I see him as a better carrier and tackler than Jones, but Jones is in my opinion the better scrummager.

Are we downplaying how good Cole is in the scrums? Is there that much between them?

Experience is the biggest thing between them. Dan Cole is still a pup in propping terms. Jones is a seasoned veteran who has seen it all before.

Physically I think Cole is probably stronger and the better athlete but experience is so key in scrummaging.

Jones.  With Cole coming off the bench.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Experience is the biggest thing between them. Dan Cole is still a pup in propping terms. Jones is a seasoned veteran who has seen it all before.

Physically I think Cole is probably stronger and the better athlete but experience is so key in scrummaging.

Yeah agree, I just think Cole probably should dominate the scrums as well AND he would add more to the team in his work at the rucks.

Jones

Wrote a comment suggesting reasons Cole should start, then changed my mind - it was the question of whether the team overall is better with Cole starting then AJ coming off the bench for the last 25-30 minutes or whether the opposite is true.

I think for playing against the Aussies you don't necessarily need a scrummaging monster like Adam Jones, as long as your next best scrummager is good enough - Cole is, and he offers much more in open play. However, who is goiing to provide more impetus and impact off the bench?

So start Jones and let him wear down his opponent over the first half and first 10 of the second, then bring on Cole to up the intensity as players tire.

dummy_half wrote:Wrote a comment suggesting reasons Cole should start, then changed my mind - it was the question of whether the team overall is better with Cole starting then AJ coming off the bench for the last 25-30 minutes or whether the opposite is true.

I think for playing against the Aussies you don't necessarily need a scrummaging monster like Adam Jones, as long as your next best scrummager is good enough - Cole is, and he offers much more in open play. However, who is goiing to provide more impetus and impact off the bench?

So start Jones and let him wear down his opponent over the first half and first 10 of the second, then bring on Cole to up the intensity as players tire.

+1

Dan Cole for me. Jones might be the better player at the scrum, but the Lions are better than the Australian scrum with Cole or with Jones. Cole is better at the breakdown, and better with the ball in hand. The breakdown is where the Lions need the extra edge, not the scrum. Cole all the way.