Mercedes to be investigated

First topic message reminder :

Yet another storm is set to rage after Red Bull and Ferrari are complaing that Mecedes did a test on 2014 tyres with a 2013 car, instead of a 2011 car as did Ferrari after the Bahrain race.

1000 miles tested to see if the new tyres are safe, but some are saying that they are the tyres to be used in Canada, not sure if this is true, but Mercedes could be in for a nasty penalty or fine or disqualification from future races.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22676348

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22672228

Interesting thread here, lots of different thoughts, but no facts have come from Pirelli yet. I'm hoping that they are the ones who didn't or had to inform the FIA about the testing and not Mercedes, or they could be in for a whole heap of trouble.

JubbaIsle wrote:its irrelevant if the car is 1 or2 years old as the difference between them is negligible, at most half a second I think has been quoted.

Alonso 21.9 - 2011
Rosberg 20.7 - 2013

That's more then half a second

Mercedes/Pirelli reprimanded with Mercedes banned from the Young Drivers Test

expect to see a lot more teams now go testing with their 2013 cars if that's all their going to get

Embarrassing

What did I say weeks ago. Complete anti climax, pointless tribunal, outrageously over the top discussion and argument on here. Anyone who knows F1 knew this would be the outcome. Media turned it into something massive, I hope they all feel very flat now after that ending

Let's get back to racing and Vet tel domination. Red bull might be annoyed but a win in Silverstone and it will have all blown over. What a waste of time and money.

It was a farce because the FIA allowed this whole situation develop the way it did. Yes Pirelli/Mercedes were at the centre of the tests but Charlie Whiting (FIA official of high standing) very much cloudied the waters and on top of that the FIA sat back and scratched their arses allowing the whole thing to develop. Does nobody here think how odd/incompetent it was of the FIA that this whole issue (that they knew about) only finally came to light with the Red Bull/Ferrari protest?

Is that it a ban from a young drivers test? 
Pathetic

John wrote:Embarrassing

What did I say weeks ago. Complete anti climax, pointless tribunal, outrageously over the top discussion and argument on here. Anyone who knows F1 knew this would be the outcome. Media turned it into something massive, I hope they all feel very flat now after that ending

Let's get back to racing and Vet tel domination. Red bull might be annoyed but a win in Silverstone and it will have all blown over. What a waste of time and money.

Beats me why you deigned to come on here and comment John, if putting forward arguments and conversational opinions is too much for you.

Fernando, my point about the Ferrari test was that if Mercedes were seen to have gotten some kind of information/knowledge from the tests then it stands to reason they should have too. In the end I think the tribunal saw through all that rubbish, saw that Mercedes had not got a competitive advantage from the blind tests and were in the end guilty of keeping quiet about the tests, which is hardly a criminal offence.

A reprimand is sufficient in retrospect given the FIA's failure to prove cheating.

CC....I believe the FIA to be not just incompetent, but bullys too.

To take Mercedes to task, after RB registered the complaint when the FIA knew about the tests anyway, but told no other teams, to then accuse them of cheating (not in so many words of course) whilst displaying a biblical amount of selective memory, in the knowledge that they will not come under scrutiny, is bullying imo.

Why they chose to front the prosecution is indicative of their need to pass the buck, after all, it wasn't the FIA who complained and asked for clarification.

JubbaIsle wrote:

John wrote:Embarrassing

What did I say weeks ago. Complete anti climax, pointless tribunal, outrageously over the top discussion and argument on here. Anyone who knows F1 knew this would be the outcome. Media turned it into something massive, I hope they all feel very flat now after that ending

Let's get back to racing and Vet tel domination. Red bull might be annoyed but a win in Silverstone and it will have all blown over. What a waste of time and money.

Beats me why you deigned to come on here and comment John, if putting forward arguments and conversational opinions is too much for you.

No it's just that it was obvious way back that nothing significant was ever going to happen. Said it way back, it's typical F1. I personally just got bored of the whole story and in particular the media over-hyping it to the nth degree. People were basically arguing for the sake of it towards the end, regurgitating the same old facts and just guessing about what punishments Mercedes should get, when in reality, there was never a strong case at all.....it was 'may' this, 'may' that and presumption upon the advantage Mercedes got. Whenever that occurs the end result is quite clear in these cases and especially in F1.

Sorry if I offended anyone and in particular JubbaIsle (I keep doing it to you, it's not intentional). Your allowed to comment about the story and express your opinions but, for me, it just got ridiculous in my opinion and I'm glad we can move on with the season.

John - I was bored after 2 days - u're right it was obvious. Especially when the biggest rule breakers and urine extractors in F1 were the ones shouting loudest. lol.

Lots of stuff was under discussion, not just about Mercedes, in fact I have more problems with the FIA, at least myself and CC were right about their culpability....

"The decision to split the costs equally suggests the tribunal felt the FIA was not completely blameless in the episode" and "It said it was "equally unsatisfactory" that Whiting had given his consent to this even though the tribunal "had no evidence before it which indicates his opinion had in fact been wrong".

In other words, they don't know what they are doing and prob never have.

Actually Jubba your middle paragraph doesn't add up if that is what the FIA are saying. During the trial it was revealed that Charlie Whiting contacted the FIA's legal team for advice and it was them that said test would be fine (as long as other teams were invited).So somewhere someone is telling porkies.

Yes, it is strange CC, there are lots of inconsistencies.....

Some overlooked facts are these...

"The FIA's qualified approval did not and could not override article 22."
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8713/fia.html
So why did Whiting and the FIA give approval of the tests when its not in their domain to do so ? their legal team is rubbish too.

Article 22.6 of the F1 technical regulations says this about testing...

"In order to ensure that venue licence conditions are respected at all times during track testing, competitors are required to inform the FIA of their test schedule in order that an observer may be appointed if deemed necessary"

and...............

"During all track testing cars must be fitted with the FIA ECU required by Article 8.2 of the FIA Formula One Technical Regulations"

Are the FIA really innocent of any knowledge of the tests considering the amount of input and observation that goes on during them ?

Sorry to labour a point, but the FIA are the ones who got off lightly in my book.

I am equally curious as to why the FIA actually waited until Red Bull and Ferrari protested before they stepped in? They knew of the tests and did nothing to stop them.

Mmmm, maybe their depts are quite surgically removed from each other, its R's doesn't know what its elbow is doing. Sounds too much like, "its not my office, its yours you sort it" could explain why they took a backseat when they told Pirelli to inform the other teams.

Still doesn't explain their incompetence, when asked to pass the tests, they should have known that they held no jurisdiction on being able to say yes, why Whiting, even though he went to his own legal dept, came back and said it could happen seems to show a complete ineptitude to govern the sporting rules, that's when they should have said "no, sorry, its not up to us".

JubbaIsle wrote:Fernando, my point about the Ferrari test was that if Mercedes were seen to have gotten some kind of information/knowledge from the tests then it stands to reason they should have too. 

Not at all. Ferrari did not use the car they are using this year. And all the teams were offered that test, if there was an advantage to be gained then they would have.  Mercedes tested with this years car and with both first team drivers... there for there would have been lessons learned to have an advantage with their current car.

All in all the pathetic punishment is a sad day for the sport.

Fernando wrote:Mercedes/Pirelli reprimanded with Mercedes banned from the Young Drivers Test

expect to see a lot more teams now go testing with their 2013 cars if that's all their going to get

Yes, If I was another team I would set up a test right away.. even if they asked another tire manufacturer who might fancy it, just to test other stuff out..  I would milk it ... if you dont get punished go ahead and do it...

Yeah Red Bull are seriously considering it apparantly, don't blame them really. The punishment has been laid out, and it's hardly one that will affect them massively

They did get punished, maybe not as much as you wanted, but punishment it is. And don't take the rhetoric from Red Bull, its just playground chatter, sulkily administered after a fight they lost.

They weren't guilty of anything monstrous or diabolical, the Tribunal said so, has the penny dropped yet ?

Now we get the demands, regarding tyre safety, for in season testing with current cars, anyone smell the hypocrisy ?