The Saracens and their South African links bubble up again.

This is my first dig at Sarries all season regarding their South African connections. They have worked hard to anglify their team and development credentials against significant criticism but then they do this:

John Smit will captain Saracens in what will be his farewell appearance against the South African Barbarians at the Honourable Artillery Company in the heart of the City of London on Thursday.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/24940.php#.UZHWyMoV5gs

It's not a mixed message.
It's a message.

Food is usually good at the HAC

Or you could look at it this way: the 100+ cap, world cup winning South African captain plays his last ever game representing his current club against a team of his countrymen. Clearly he couldn't have Sarries against South Africa as his last game, but after such an illustrious career is this not a great way to bow out? I suppose it just depends upon what your agenda is...

HongKongCherry wrote:Or you could look at it this way: the 100+ cap, world cup winning South African captain plays his last ever game representing his current club against a team of his countrymen. Clearly he couldn't have Sarries against South Africa as his last game, but after such an illustrious career is this not a great way to bow out? I suppose it just depends upon what your their agenda is...

Fixed that for you HK.

[ed] Seeing Brendan Venter's image on the Springbok coaching bench in the summer and the Saracens' one in the winter is disturbing, but not in itself worthy of comment. But this 'Barbarians' match just undermines the work which has been done to resolve PR issues amongst English sceptics.

Well the players won't be needed for the final and it sounds like a good end of season party to me. A lot of amateur clubs have an end of season presidents game and this will probably be similar by the looks of it.

Should be fun for the players and spectators and a fond farewell to a Bok legend. Then the Sarries Lions and internationals can have a few days off before joining their squads and the rest can enjoy the day and wind down.

I think whilst they have links to SA...it would be harsh to criticise them now when you look at the effect they are and will have on English rugby...

Farrell, Short, Tomkins, Fraser, M.Vunipola, Kruis, The young full back..his name escapes me etc etc...they seem to have began a conveyor belt of quality young English players...which i can only imagine will have benefitted from the initial influx of SA's them years ago.

greytiger wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:Or you could look at it this way: the 100+ cap, world cup winning South African captain plays his last ever game representing his current club against a team of his countrymen. Clearly he couldn't have Sarries against South Africa as his last game, but after such an illustrious career is this not a great way to bow out? I suppose it just depends upon what your their agenda is...

Fixed that for you HK.

[ed] Seeing Brendan Venter's image on the Springbok coaching bench in the summer and the Saracens' one in the winter is disturbing, but not in itself worthy of comment. But this 'Barbarians' match just undermines the work which has been done to resolve PR issues amongst English sceptics.

If the game was being staged in south Africa I could see your point about poor PR, but it is in effect a testimonial match for a departing great of the game. His retirement should rightly be recognised, so who would you rather they play? The SA Barbarians is a relevant team and one who are likely to contribute to a free flowing match for spectators.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Well the players won't be needed for the final and it sounds like a good end of season party to me. A lot of amateur clubs have an end of season presidents game and this will probably be similar by the looks of it.

Should be fun for the players and spectators and a fond farewell to a Bok legend. Then the Sarries Lions and internationals can have a few days off before joining their squads and the rest can enjoy the day and wind down.

Good end of season party?

The Saracens players shouldn't be celebrating after their very poor losses vs Toulon and Saints.

They should be preparing for next season, look at why the wheels came off at the business end.

No point trying your best in a inconsequential PR game like this one. Would rather see them perform in games that actually matter to the fans.

I am very very disappointed in my team. You have to turn up in these big matches and they simply haven't delivered.

This game is for the city boys.

Though unfortunately I wouldn't surprise me if the players put a better show in this game than they did in their previous matches.

How the other half live? 2 semi-final loses and the wheels have come off!

But having lost a home Jeff semi-final in the past I completely sympathise

greytiger wrote:This is my first dig at Sarries all season regarding their South African connections. They have worked hard to anglify their team and development credentials against significant criticism but then they do this:

John Smit will captain Saracens in what will be his farewell appearance against the South African Barbarians at the Honourable Artillery Company in the heart of the City of London on Thursday.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/24940.php#.UZHWyMoV5gs

It's not a mixed message.
It's a message.

And what message exactly would that be GT?

Ozzy3213 wrote:

greytiger wrote:This is my first dig at Sarries all season regarding their South African connections. They have worked hard to anglify their team and development credentials against significant criticism but then they do this:

John Smit will captain Saracens in what will be his farewell appearance against the South African Barbarians at the Honourable Artillery Company in the heart of the City of London on Thursday.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/24940.php#.UZHWyMoV5gs

It's not a mixed message.
It's a message.

And what message exactly would that be GT?

The Saffernisation of a club As. I've acknowledged that their English credentials is apparent for all to see.

But every now and again the invisibility cloak slips and the beating heart of the Cape shows.

HKC earlier -

Or you could look at it this way: the 100+ cap, world cup winning South African captain plays his last ever game representing his current club against a team of his countrymen. Clearly he couldn't have Sarries against South Africa as his last game, but after such an illustrious career is this not a great way to bow out?

As Smit had retired from International rugby when he joined the Sarries and is returning to RSA, the 100+ caps are an irrelevance to the club. But the identification and association is reinforced.

Clearly the SAB game is more an RSA one to mark an end of a career than Sarries.

The mixed message is 'We play in England but we lurve South Africa'.

Spin an equivalent record around the Celtic nations and see if it becomes a hit...

greytiger wrote:

HKC earlier -

Or you could look at it this way: the 100+ cap, world cup winning South African captain plays his last ever game representing his current club against a team of his countrymen. Clearly he couldn't have Sarries against South Africa as his last game, but after such an illustrious career is this not a great way to bow out?

As Smit had retired from International rugby when he joined the Sarries and is returning to RSA, the 100+ caps are an irrelevance to the club. But the identification and association is reinforced.

Clearly the SAB game is more an RSA one to mark an end of a career than Sarries.

The mixed message is 'We play in England but we lurve South Africa'.

Spin an equivalent record around the Celtic nations and see if it becomes a hit...

Its far from irrelevant. He will be rightly remembered as one of the great SA players, so his last ever game should have some SA focus and recognise his contribution to the international game, along with acknowledging his current employer. The ideal would be against the springboks or the Sharks, but as this was always going to be unlikely an invitational South African side is a valid substitute. For me the message they are sending is quite clear, they want to give him a proper and fitting send off.

I think this article says a lot more about your state of mind than it does anything about Saracens. You seem to be the one with an agenda here GT.

Grey, Saracens have a game at HAC at least once a year - usually it's a pre-season friendly, this time it's a farewell game.
This is one of Saracens PR jollies to the City, a day out for the suits and corporates and at best an exhibition/friendly game. Given the ticket prices it's probably also a good moneymaker for them, the tickets are much more expensive than a normal league game, very few "normal" Sarries supporters tend to go and there's lot's of corporate hospitality attached. To a point it's a city booze up/networking event that will have a rugby match going on in the background- think the red seats at Wembley.
As the player retiring has very strong SA connections, it's hardly surprising that a team with SA connections has been chosen as the opposition. If they wern't going to play a SA side who should they play?
The Saracens are pushing the boat out at Allianz Park with both the local rugby clubs and community to get involvement so I don't see any hidden agenda on this one.

We had our work Xmas party at the HAC last year, great venue - in fact we're going back in June for our "summer event" (no idea what's involved, last year they had us in a big tent in the Tower of London moat painting murals)

Irish Londoner you probably sum it up best.

Effervescing Elephant you are probably right in regards to greytiger but I find his rants blend into one (to be fair he could probably say the same about me).

Greytiger what I can't understand is that you don't bat an eyelid when it comes to the high foreign count in other club sides.

Ideally I would like to see more youngsters from the Sarries academy in the squad but I doubt the coaches and management will listen to me.

Every club IMO can do more.

beshocked wrote:Irish Londoner you probably sum it up best.

Effervescing Elephant you are probably right in regards to greytiger but I find his rants blend into one (to be fair he could probably say the same about me).

Greytiger what I can't understand is that you don't bat an eyelid when it comes to the high foreign count in other club sides.

Ideally I would like to see more youngsters from the Sarries academy in the squad but I doubt the coaches and management will listen to me.

Every club IMO can do more.

Au contraire mon copain.

The seriousness of foreign imports is a long-held concern of mine. I look around the league and I see sides like Bath etc. which rely on them.
My particular concern is Sarries' almost unique identification with the Cape. That is not reflected in clubs that for whatever reason just want to survive or get on.

greytiger it's not like we are called London South Africa. There are certain clubs whose name is purposely linked to another country.

Bit harsh picking on Bath they have less foreigners than at least 4 sides.

If Saracens weren't doing well I doubt you would be as vocal. You don't focus on the likes of Sale,London Irish or LW.

Is the real reason you've started this thread because in your eyes Sarries are the Premiership winners and you need something else to focus on?

I truly do not understand the issue here.

One of the great SA players is retiring from rugby with a shindig at a posh club agains and with some of his mates.

HongKongCherry wrote:Is the real reason you've started this thread because in your eyes Sarries are the Premiership winners and you need something else to focus on?

The Sarries in my eyes are the champions and I've acknowledged that.

But I'd dispute the fact that I'd ever been so one-eyed as to be petty as to make an excuse.

Every year I applaud the league winner as the true champions including 2007.

I may be heretical in my views but I refute any allegations that I'm fundamentally swayed by bias to my side.

greytiger wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:Is the real reason you've started this thread because in your eyes Sarries are the Premiership winners and you need something else to focus on?

The Sarries in my eyes are the champions and I've acknowledged that.

But I'd dispute the fact that I'd ever been so one-eyed as to be petty as to make an excuse.

Every year I applaud the league winner as the true champions including 2007.

I may be heretical in my views but I refute any allegations that I'm fundamentally swayed by bias to my side.

So what possible rationale could you have to take such umbrance against an end of season game to mark the retirement of player. A game which will be played in front of a few thousand people at most; hardly the environment to have pomp and fanfare about their true allegiance to South Africa surely?

Sounds like an event with the dual purpose of waving off a very successful player, as well as a coorporate jolly for the sponsors/their kids who I'm sure will be able to talk to the players afterwards etc.

Sounds like a good idea to me?

I have to pick up on the comment about Bath having a load of foreigners. in our squad there are no more than many other clubs and indeed before Heathcote decided he was Scottish, we were putting out an all English set of backs.

I wonder if we've got more non-EQ than other teams? For 2013 i think its about 13, of which only 5 are not British and Irish

James, Guinaza, Perenise, Orlandi, Day, Caldwell, Louw, Houston, Roberts, Stringer, Heathcote, Agulla

Our starting XV next year should be

James (Wales)
Webber (EQ)
Wilson (EQ)
Attwood (EQ)
Garvey (EQ)
Fearns (EQ)
Louw (SA)
Houston (Oz)
Stringer (IRE)
Ford / Heathcote (EQ), (former EQ!!)
Agulla (Arg)
Banahan (EQ)
Joseph (EQ)
Biggs (EQ)
Abendanon (EQ)

So that's 10 EQ, not too bad, with Catt, Palmer-Newport, Spencer, Hooper, Sisi, Watson, Young, Eastmond, Watson all on the bench

Bathite, don't mention Louw and Bendy on this thread, you'll set greytiger off again!

Bathite wrote:I wonder if we've got more non-EQ than other teams? For 2013 i think its about 13, of which only 5 are not British and Irish

James, Guinaza, Perenise, Orlandi, Day, Caldwell, Louw, Houston, Roberts, Stringer, Heathcote, Agulla

Our starting XV next year should be

James (Wales)
Webber (EQ)
Wilson (EQ)
Attwood (EQ)
Garvey (EQ)
Fearns (EQ)
Louw (SA)
Houston (Oz)
Stringer (IRE)
Ford / Heathcote (EQ), (former EQ!!)
Agulla (Arg)
Banahan (EQ)
Joseph (EQ)
Biggs (EQ)
Abendanon (EQ)

So that's 10 EQ, not too bad, with Catt, Palmer-Newport, Spencer, Hooper, Sisi, Watson, Young, Eastmond, Watson all on the bench

To be honest, Bath are not my concern Bathite with your Welsh/Irish/Argentine possible starting XV next year.

It's the unrelenting Southern African-ness of the Sarries.

Judging by last Sunday, even their crowd is getting boorish in its respect of the opposition.

greytiger wrote:

Bathite wrote:I wonder if we've got more non-EQ than other teams? For 2013 i think its about 13, of which only 5 are not British and Irish

James, Guinaza, Perenise, Orlandi, Day, Caldwell, Louw, Houston, Roberts, Stringer, Heathcote, Agulla

Our starting XV next year should be

James (Wales)
Webber (EQ)
Wilson (EQ)
Attwood (EQ)
Garvey (EQ)
Fearns (EQ)
Louw (SA)
Houston (Oz)
Stringer (IRE)
Ford / Heathcote (EQ), (former EQ!!)
Agulla (Arg)
Banahan (EQ)
Joseph (EQ)
Biggs (EQ)
Abendanon (EQ)

So that's 10 EQ, not too bad, with Catt, Palmer-Newport, Spencer, Hooper, Sisi, Watson, Young, Eastmond, Watson all on the bench

To be honest, Bath are not my concern Bathite with your Welsh/Irish/Argentine possible starting XV next year.

It's the unrelenting Southern African-ness of the Sarries.

Judging by last Sunday, even their crowd is getting boorish in its respect of the opposition.

Why do you have prejudice against South Africans?

I thought it was nice to see Saracens fans actually vocal for once. Normally quiet as church mice.

What, there are foreigners involved with an English club! I only have one response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcZqcPOlNM

beshocked wrote:

greytiger wrote:

Bathite wrote:I wonder if we've got more non-EQ than other teams? For 2013 i think its about 13, of which only 5 are not British and Irish

James, Guinaza, Perenise, Orlandi, Day, Caldwell, Louw, Houston, Roberts, Stringer, Heathcote, Agulla

Our starting XV next year should be

James (Wales)
Webber (EQ)
Wilson (EQ)
Attwood (EQ)
Garvey (EQ)
Fearns (EQ)
Louw (SA)
Houston (Oz)
Stringer (IRE)
Ford / Heathcote (EQ), (former EQ!!)
Agulla (Arg)
Banahan (EQ)
Joseph (EQ)
Biggs (EQ)
Abendanon (EQ)

So that's 10 EQ, not too bad, with Catt, Palmer-Newport, Spencer, Hooper, Sisi, Watson, Young, Eastmond, Watson all on the bench

To be honest, Bath are not my concern Bathite with your Welsh/Irish/Argentine possible starting XV next year.

It's the unrelenting Southern African-ness of the Sarries.

Judging by last Sunday, even their crowd is getting boorish in its respect of the opposition.

Why do you have prejudice against South Africans?

I thought it was nice to see Saracens fans actually vocal for once. Normally quiet as church mice.

Bath's last team was
FB Ollie Devoto
14 W Horacio Agulla*
13 C Ben Williams
12 C Kyle Eastmond
11 W Semesa Rokoduguni?
10 FH Tom Heathcote*
9 SH Michael Claassens*
1 P Paul James*
2 H Rob Webber
3 P David Wilson
4 L Dom Day*
5 L Dave Attwood
6 F Francois Louw (c)*
7 F Guy Mercer
8 N8 Simon Taylor*
Replacements
16 H Ross Batty
17 P Nathan Catt
18 P Anthony Perenise*
19 L Will Spencer
20 F Mat Gilbert
21 N8 Nick Koster*
22 SH Peter Stringer*
23 C Tom Biggs

Ten foreigners.

GT, what is your point? All teams have foreign players.

Not basically from one country they don't as you know well.

As I said earlier I doubt that the Celtic nations would wash it and probably the SH nations if their sides were packed with foreign mercenaries.

But what if (say) the Brumbies was loaded with ABs?

The main point is not foreign mercenaries but the sourcing of them from one foreign country.
Especially when the principal financial backing comes from the same one.

And if you don't feel a sense of foreboding about it, I do.

greytiger wrote:Not basically from one country they don't as you know well.

As I said earlier I doubt that the Celtic nations would wash it and probably the SH nations if their sides were packed with foreign mercenaries.

But what if (say) the Brumbies was loaded with ABs?

The main point is not foreign mercenaries but the sourcing of them from one foreign country.
Especially when the principal financial backing comes from the same one.

And if you don't feel a sense of foreboding about it, I do.

I ,do get your point and I'm sure others here do too but are being a bit too PC to acknowledge it.

Sarries are weighed heavily by a South African influence and that is there for all to see. It is a little comical to read some of the respondents who quote other clubs with foreign players, totally side stepping your observation of ONE countries dominance of an English team.

I'm not however going to make a judgement on them for having this strong connection but it is a pretty unique partnership isn't it?

You throw mud at the centralised structure of the IRFU with the Union having a large degree of control over the professional provinces but the inevitable consequences of independent clubs run as businesses that can be bought or sold by anyone with the cash also sets you off...

greytiger wrote:Not basically from one country they don't as you know well.

As I said earlier I doubt that the Celtic nations would wash it and probably the SH nations if their sides were packed with foreign mercenaries.

But what if (say) the Brumbies was loaded with ABs?

The main point is not foreign mercenaries but the sourcing of them from one foreign country.
Especially when the principal financial backing comes from the same one.

And if you don't feel a sense of foreboding about it, I do.

I don't seem to recall you having the same view about Glaws a few years ago, or should I say McGlaws. Owned by the Walkinshaws, with Alastairs Dickinson and Strokosch, Rory and Scott Lawson and Jim Hamilton. Not forgetting Bryan Redpath or Carl Hogg as coaches. How does that differ?

GT I think you are making something out of nothing, it is a game for someone retiring, that's it, there after he goes home

Biltong wrote:GT I think you are making something out of nothing, it is a game for someone retiring, that's it, there after he goes home

Maybe Biltong

Sarries non English born contingent comprises:
Southern African unless stated

Brad Barritt
Mouritz Botha
Schalk Brits
Kelly Brown*Sco
Jacques Burger
Neil De Kock
Petrus Du Plessis
Nick Fenton-Wells
Rhys Gill*Wal
Alistair Hargreaves
Ernst Joubert
Joe Maddock*NZ
Justin Melck
Nils Mordt
Carlos Nieto*Arg
Kameli Ratuvou*Fij
Eoin Sheriff*Ire
John Smit
Matt Stevens
Duncan Taylor*Sco
Mako Vunipola*NZ
Chris Wyles*USA

From their Wiki entries (is Richard Wigglesworth's middle name really 'poo'?).
Cape countries 14
Rest of World 9

Squad size 35

greytiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:GT I think you are making something out of nothing, it is a game for someone retiring, that's it, there after he goes home

Maybe Biltong

Sarries non English born contingent comprises:
Southern African unless stated

Brad Barritt
Mouritz Botha
Schalk Brits
Kelly Brown*Sco
Jacques Burger
Neil De Kock
Petrus Du Plessis
Nick Fenton-Wells
Rhys Gill*Wal
Alistair Hargreaves
Ernst Joubert
Joe Maddock*NZ
Justin Melck
Nils Mordt
Carlos Nieto*Arg
Kameli Ratuvou*Fij
Eoin Sheriff*Ire
John Smit
Matt Stevens
Duncan Taylor*Sco
Mako Vunipola*NZ
Chris Wyles*USA

From their Wiki entries (is Richard Wigglesworth's middle name really 'poo'?).
Cape countries 14
Rest of World 9

Squad size 35

I understand your concern that an English club comprises mostly South Africans, I do. But it has been like that for some time, hasn't it?

What I don't understand is why this game is bugging you.

Biltong wrote:

greytiger wrote:

Biltong wrote:GT I think you are making something out of nothing, it is a game for someone retiring, that's it, there after he goes home

Maybe Biltong

Sarries non English born contingent comprises:
Southern African unless stated

Brad Barritt
Mouritz Botha
Schalk Brits
Kelly Brown*Sco
Jacques Burger
Neil De Kock
Petrus Du Plessis
Nick Fenton-Wells
Rhys Gill*Wal
Alistair Hargreaves
Ernst Joubert
Joe Maddock*NZ
Justin Melck
Nils Mordt
Carlos Nieto*Arg
Kameli Ratuvou*Fij
Eoin Sheriff*Ire
John Smit
Matt Stevens
Duncan Taylor*Sco
Mako Vunipola*NZ
Chris Wyles*USA

From their Wiki entries (is Richard Wigglesworth's middle name really 'poo'?).
Cape countries 14
Rest of World 9

Squad size 35

I understand your concern that an English club comprises mostly South Africans, I do. But it has been like that for some time, hasn't it?

What I don't understand is why this game is bugging you.

It's not exactly bugging me in itself Biltong in itself. It's the drip, drip, drip of association with SA.
No individual drop is in itself noteworthy but each one is a reminder of the link.

To be honest I had no idea of how dependent Sarries was on overseas-born talent.

Grey, still don't understand what you see as the issue with this. Saracens have a lot of South African investment and a lot of South African (although a fair few EQ) players. Given the SA ownership and the fact that they are based in London then they are going to be a destination club for a SA player wanting to play in England - in much the same way as pre-professionalism the Exile clubs attracted Celtic players living in London.
As we keep getting told on the BT deal/future of the HEC threads, the Jeff clubs are run as businesses and the people who own those businesses have the right to run them in any way they see fit and the "Celts" can live with it, this is a business running itself in the way it sees fit.
Saracens have a lot of Saffers but roughly the same proportion of overseas players as most other Jeff teams.
As for the canard about how the Celtic teams would put up with it, I'd suggest that if they were doing as well as Saracens on (and increasingly off) the pitch, and getting players for the national side through residency qualification I'm not sure if there would be that much objection.
There is certainly a debate to be had on the numbers of overseas players per se in the Jeff and the increasing numbers of qualified by residency players getting into national sides and the Lions but none of this is down to Saracens.

and getting players for the national side through residency qualification

OK, now I am on GT side,

I agree with Irish Londoner. I have no issue with this and, frankly, I never really thought about it in these terms before. Sarries had 10 or 11 England Qualified Players in their starting XV the other day. The fact they have a number of South African players in their team does not concern me at all.

doctor_grey wrote:I agree with Irish Londoner. I have no issue with this and, frankly, I never really thought about it in these terms before. Sarries had 10 or 11 England Qualified Players in their starting XV the other day. The fact they have a number of South African players in their team does not concern me at all.

Hey Doc, long time no speak.

It does concern me as we are the ones losing the talent.

Biltong wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I agree with Irish Londoner. I have no issue with this and, frankly, I never really thought about it in these terms before. Sarries had 10 or 11 England Qualified Players in their starting XV the other day. The fact they have a number of South African players in their team does not concern me at all.

Hey Doc, long time no speak.

It does concern me as we are the ones losing the talent.

There's 3 Saffas in the French squad to tour NZ too Biltong

I presume you've seen the new France squad Biltong? 3 residency qualified Saffas and a Fijian.

Sorry just seen it says the same thing 1 post above!

Jeeze portnoy give if a bloody rest!
Your still banging the same drum to the same tune!
Sarries are bad sarries are evil sarries are the sole reason England are rubbish sarries are responsible for the worlds economy's to collapse!!
Out of you extensive list, how many are qualified through parentage to play for England or are EQ?
How many have been capped or are in the regular first 23?
How many have you listed as South African have you got wrong??

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I agree with Irish Londoner. I have no issue with this and, frankly, I never really thought about it in these terms before. Sarries had 10 or 11 England Qualified Players in their starting XV the other day. The fact they have a number of South African players in their team does not concern me at all.

Hey Doc, long time no speak.

It does concern me as we are the ones losing the talent.

There's 3 Saffas in the French squad to tour NZ too Biltong

They're everywhere Pete, just like unwanted weed in your garden.

Bathman_in_London wrote:I presume you've seen the new France squad Biltong? 3 residency qualified Saffas and a Fijian.

Sorry just seen it says the same thing 1 post above!

Haven't looked at their squad yet mate, I might very soon not know who to support.

Biltong wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I agree with Irish Londoner. I have no issue with this and, frankly, I never really thought about it in these terms before. Sarries had 10 or 11 England Qualified Players in their starting XV the other day. The fact they have a number of South African players in their team does not concern me at all.

Hey Doc, long time no speak.

It does concern me as we are the ones losing the talent.

There's 3 Saffas in the French squad to tour NZ too Biltong

They're everywhere Pete, just like unwanted weed in your garden.

It's a conspiracy Biltong! An attempt by SA, NZ and the Pacific Islands to ensure no-one from anywhere else gets to play international rugby

I get it! So send out the rejects who you know are worse than your first teamers and you are guaranteed to win!

Of course the likes of Earl Rose and Kirchner show that the system isnt fool-proof...

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I agree with Irish Londoner. I have no issue with this and, frankly, I never really thought about it in these terms before. Sarries had 10 or 11 England Qualified Players in their starting XV the other day. The fact they have a number of South African players in their team does not concern me at all.

Hey Doc, long time no speak.

It does concern me as we are the ones losing the talent.

There's 3 Saffas in the French squad to tour NZ too Biltong

They're everywhere Pete, just like unwanted weed in your garden.

It's a conspiracy Biltong! An attempt by SA, NZ and the Pacific Islands to ensure no-one from anywhere else gets to play international rugby

Good plan that Pete, problem is to get rugby out of everyone's genes is going to take a few of our lifetimes.