Commiserations to Kelly Brown

He should have been going on the lions tour, he could have been captain.

One of, if not the, outstanding back rows of the 6N in the form of his life and a man with the right character for the lions but Gatland has gambled on players of unproven fitness and form instead.

I think Brown can consider himself very hard done by. Anyone know how to contact him to offer him commiserations personally?

@kellydrbrown on twitter maybe

Gatland is on crack or something. Lydiate? FFS, i guess picking on form was bollox from the start

There were always going to be some very talented, very disappointed back rowers after the squad announcement; I didn't expect Kelly Brown to be one of them.

Having said that, and in Gatland's defence, there is so little time and so few games for the Lions before the first Test, and proven combinations were always - and understandably - going to be a factor in the selection process.

I respect Lydiates abilities. He is a cracking player. Kelly has grafted all season long, racking up tackles and turnovers as has Tom Wood and Chris Robshaw, to leave them behind is as big a mistake as making Warburton captain.

TJ wrote:He should have been going on the lions tour, he could have been captain.

One of, if not the, outstanding back rows of the 6N in the form of his life and a man with the right character for the lions but Gatland has gambled on players of unproven fitness and form instead.

I think Brown can consider himself very hard done by. Anyone know how to contact him to offer him commiserations personally?

Agree absolutely. Croft and Lydiate over Brown is difficult to understand. Croft and Lydiate over Robshaw even is a strange call, and I am not a fan of Robshaw, but give me a grafter over a frustrated winger any day of the week. Croft may well score the odd try "that no other back row could have" but pity the others who have to double their workload while he swans about in the backs. Got no time for Croft a complete lightweight.

Real shame for Brown who would have been my captain also

Croft is easier to understand - he's very different from the other blindsides and if the Aussies play Hooper we'll need his speed - the pack should cope fine in the scrums as there are some big units already who can anchor us. Croft has also been in excellent club form and because he plays for the Tigers, he's always high visibility. The press really pushed for him.

Lydiate is the real . We are not comparing like with like here - we are comparing Brown, who has played almost every match all season and has been consistently excellent with a player who has barely a handful of professional matches under his belt since last September. If Lydiate's body breaks down (and it well might), Gatland deserves nothing but criticism.

If I'm being fair, it's a coin toss between Brown and Robshaw in any event.

It's backrowers who are most likely to get injured though, I think and so I wouldn't rule out Kelly joining up with the squad later.

dragonbreath wrote:

TJ wrote:He should have been going on the lions tour, he could have been captain.

One of, if not the, outstanding back rows of the 6N in the form of his life and a man with the right character for the lions but Gatland has gambled on players of unproven fitness and form instead.

I think Brown can consider himself very hard done by. Anyone know how to contact him to offer him commiserations personally?

Agree absolutely. Croft and Lydiate over Brown is difficult to understand. Croft and Lydiate over Robshaw even is a strange call, and I am not a fan of Robshaw, but give me a grafter over a frustrated winger any day of the week. Croft may well score the odd try "that no other back row could have" but pity the others who have to double their workload while he swans about in the backs. Got no time for Croft a complete lightweight.

Real shame for Brown who would have been my captain also

I suggest you watch croft play a little more, it's been proven time and time again that he isn't a lightweight and puts in the hard work. Do you seriously think he'd be playing for the tigers still if he didn't put the grunt work in?

George Carlin wrote:Lydiate is the real . We are not comparing like with like here - we are comparing Brown, who has played almost every match all season and has been consistently excellent with a player who has barely a handful of professional matches under his belt since last September. If Lydiate's body breaks down (and it well might), Kelly Brown gets called up and everyone's happy.

Agreed.

Brown was never going, it is a no brainer, he played out of position at 7 in the 6N just like Robshaw so they can thank their respective national coaches. R Jones is the biggest victim, he turned around a defeat under Warburton against the Irish at home to lead Wales to 3 away wins as captain and Lydiate gets picked instead of him!!!!

How the hell Farrel got picked is fairly obvious, this is typical Gatland, I hope he does not come back to the Wales set up so Howley etc can do their own thing and move forward.

glamorganalun wrote:How the hell Farrel got picked is fairly obvious, this is typical Gatland, I hope he does not come back to the Wales set up so Howley etc can do their own thing and move forward.

So the Welsh like Howley and not Gatland now??

Fickle bunch!

nathan wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

TJ wrote:He should have been going on the lions tour, he could have been captain.

One of, if not the, outstanding back rows of the 6N in the form of his life and a man with the right character for the lions but Gatland has gambled on players of unproven fitness and form instead.

I think Brown can consider himself very hard done by. Anyone know how to contact him to offer him commiserations personally?

Agree absolutely. Croft and Lydiate over Brown is difficult to understand. Croft and Lydiate over Robshaw even is a strange call, and I am not a fan of Robshaw, but give me a grafter over a frustrated winger any day of the week. Croft may well score the odd try "that no other back row could have" but pity the others who have to double their workload while he swans about in the backs. Got no time for Croft a complete lightweight.

Real shame for Brown who would have been my captain also

I suggest you watch croft play a little more, it's been proven time and time again that he isn't a lightweight and puts in the hard work. Do you seriously think he'd be playing for the tigers still if he didn't put the grunt work in?

I have watched Croft plenty, and he cuts a fine figure striding down the wing his hair flowing in the breeze. He is a lightweight and he gets away with it at the Tigers because others do his work for him. No time for seagullers. If I want someone to score out wide then I like that to be an outside back. Robshaw is limited but at least you get a shift out of him. Not taking Ryan Jones Kelly Brown or Robshaw but giving Croft a ticket is a disgrace.

glamorganalun wrote:Brown was never going, it is a no brainer, he played out of position at 7 in the 6N just like Robshaw so they can thank their respective national coaches. R Jones is the biggest victim, he turned around a defeat under Warburton against the Irish at home to lead Wales to 3 away wins as captain and Lydiate gets picked instead of him!!!!
How the hell Farrel got picked is fairly obvious, this is typical Gatland, I hope he does not come back to the Wales set up so Howley etc can do their own thing and move forward.

You know what you are absolutely right. That is a absolute kick in the nuts for Ryan. He earned his ticket and should rightfully be furious

funnyExiledScot wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:How the hell Farrel got picked is fairly obvious, this is typical Gatland, I hope he does not come back to the Wales set up so Howley etc can do their own thing and move forward.

So the Welsh like Howley and not Gatland now??

Fickle bunch!

I have never liked Gatland, left/right touchline moves and kick the leather off the ball also, team selection is not picked on form as you now see, Gatland says one thing but it only applies to some players.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gatland is on crack or something. Lydiate? FFS, i guess picking on form was bollox from the start

...or maybe something his wee friend Stevens gave him ?

Sod Kelly Brown, how about Chris Robshaw!!!

#Justice4Robshaw!

yappysnap wrote:Sod Kelly Brown, how about Chris Robshaw!!!

#Justice4Robshaw!

Go start your own thread then

There is one, sod Robshaw he is no 7 hence no place in the squad he is not the best 6 either.

glamorganalun wrote:There is one, sod Robshaw he is no 7 hence no place in the squad he is not the best 6 either.

I'm afraid Alun is right, yappy, Robshaw not in the top two 7s or 6s, and behind SOB as a utility player. You might want to feel a bit aggrieved for Wood tho?!

Honestly, if Brown had been in over Lydiate and Robshaw was still sitting at home, I wouldn't have batted an eyelid as an Englishman. Its the inclusion of someone who has barely played all season over (arguably) 2 of the top 10 players in the 6 Nations this season that grates.

Personally I would have taken 2 of Wood/Robshaw/Brown over Lydiate and Croft, but can see why Croft is in with his pace and lineout ability.

There were always going to be quality flankers missing out (Ferris not even considered due to injury!), but the wrong decision has been made.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:There is one, sod Robshaw he is no 7 hence no place in the squad he is not the best 6 either.

I'm afraid Alun is right, yappy, Robshaw not in the top two 7s or 6s, and behind SOB as a utility player. You might want to feel a bit aggrieved for Wood tho?!

I would love to but I don't have enough to go around, I'm sticking totally biasedly to being aggrieved for Robshaw.

Maybe we can call him RobbedShaw

glamorganalun wrote:Brown was never going, it is a no brainer, he played out of position at 7 in the 6N just like Robshaw so they can thank their respective national coaches. R Jones is the biggest victim, he turned around a defeat under Warburton against the Irish at home to lead Wales to 3 away wins as captain and Lydiate gets picked instead of him!!!!

And was outstanding, plus he played well in the Heineken Cup for Sarries at 6.

Could have understood Wood ahead of Brown but it seems Gatland has taken an unnecessary punt.

glamorganalun wrote:Brown was never going, it is a no brainer, he played out of position at 7 in the 6N just like Robshaw so they can thank their respective national coaches. R Jones is the biggest victim, he turned around a defeat under Warburton against the Irish at home to lead Wales to 3 away wins as captain and Lydiate gets picked instead of him!!!!

How the hell Farrel got picked is fairly obvious, this is typical Gatland, I hope he does not come back to the Wales set up so Howley etc can do their own thing and move forward.

He played out of position and STILL had some of the best stats of all the back rowers.

He is IMO the best 6 in the NH just now, but because he does not do the flashy stuff and gets on with his job, the media ignore him, therefore the public ignore him

He has grown into his captains role and has competed at the highest level consitently well for the last 12 months

One of THE most shocking ommissions by Gatland -

Gatland lied to everyone saying form was more improtant than reputation

He should have said it was

Mates, reputation and then form - then he would have been closer to the truth

BamBam wrote:Honestly, if Brown had been in over Lydiate and Robshaw was still sitting at home, I wouldn't have batted an eyelid as an Englishman. Its the inclusion of someone who has barely played all season over (arguably) 2 of the top 10 players in the 6 Nations this season that grates.

Personally I would have taken 2 of Wood/Robshaw/Brown over Lydiate and Croft, but can see why Croft is in with his pace and lineout ability.

There were always going to be quality flankers missing out (Ferris not even considered due to injury!), but the wrong decision has been made.

Spot on

Picking a lions team this time last year based on form, Lydiate, Heaslip, and Warburton would have all gone, but at the moment, just don't buy it.

BamBam wrote:Honestly, if Brown had been in over Lydiate and Robshaw was still sitting at home, I wouldn't have batted an eyelid as an Englishman. Its the inclusion of someone who has barely played all season over (arguably) 2 of the top 10 players in the 6 Nations this season that grates.

Personally I would have taken 2 of Wood/Robshaw/Brown over Lydiate and Croft, but can see why Croft is in with his pace and lineout ability.

There were always going to be quality flankers missing out (Ferris not even considered due to injury!), but the wrong decision has been made.

I agree.

Either Robshaw or Brown should have been in there instead of Lydiate.

The stupid thing is that both Robshaw and Brown were captains of their respective countries. Being captain does show that the coaches do have quite a bit of confidence in them.

I knew Brown would miss out. Surprised by Robshaw but not surprised to see Lydiate there (Gatland loves the guy evidently).

"I knew Brown would miss out. Surprised by Robshaw but not surprised to see Lydiate there (Gatland loves the guy evidently)."

When push comes to shove you have to choose the best and Lydiate is far far better than those 2 hard working back row players. It's quite simple really, the best player is back playing so its a no brainer; you have to go with the 2012 6 Nations Player of the Year - Class is permanent and form; well you know the rest

Gatland is a liar.

Said his selection would be based on the 6 Nations but left out the top performing flankers and selected on reputation.

Picked a player based on 5 games 12 months ago, who's been injured for the majority of this season and played no International rugby. Bet the Aussies are terrified.

RubyGuby wrote:"I knew Brown would miss out. Surprised by Robshaw but not surprised to see Lydiate there (Gatland loves the guy evidently)."

When push comes to shove you have to choose the best and Lydiate is far far better than those 2 hard working back row players. It's quite simple really, the best player is back playing so its a no brainer; you have to go with the 2012 6 Nations Player of the Year - Class is permanent and form; well you know the rest

That's a load of horse manure and you know it. Lydiate is just yet another overhyped Welshman.

He won a subjective award last year. Last year being the important point. He hasn't played in over a year yet strolls into the Lions squad because he is best buddies with Gatland.

Playing for one of the worst sides in Europe actually boosts your Lion's chances.

What does Lydiate do that Robshaw and Brown can't do?

What does Lydiate do that Robshaw and Brown can't do?

C'mon please

RubyGuby wrote:What does Lydiate do that Robshaw and Brown can't do?

C'mon please

Oh right so you don't actually know. Fair enough.

Peter O'Mahony has had a great season too.

beshocked wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:What does Lydiate do that Robshaw and Brown can't do?

C'mon please

Oh right so you don't actually know. Fair enough.

I know alright but I was once told that it's not worth trying to educate pork

RubyGuby wrote:

beshocked wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:What does Lydiate do that Robshaw and Brown can't do?

C'mon please

Oh right so you don't actually know. Fair enough.

I know alright but I was once told that it's not worth trying to educate pork

Rubyguby look I know Lydiate is a deity in Wales but he is not in the rest of the NH. If you want to persuade other people to be encouraged by your way of thinking you'll have to justify it.

As I suspected you don't know how Lydiate is better. If you did you would say so.

Your argument is very poor.

You crack me up mate; keep 'em coming

Not good enough answer. Sorry. Enough said.

Not sure Lydiate is worth the gamble myself.... if the Lions were playing the boks then ok but looking at the opposition, do they need a tackling demon who is half fit and not proven?
What can he add which the Lions don't already have... and need?

I think the Lions would suit playing a player like Croft at 6 anyhow.... and if Lydiate isn't going to be in the test team then why bother???

RubyGuby wrote:What does Lydiate do that Robshaw and Brown can't do?

C'mon please

Sing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau?

Look, there is absolutely no question that Dan Lydiate would have been one of the first names on the team sheet were we picking a Lions XV last summer. He had an excellent season, and was constantly outstanding through the 6 Nations. He isn't a "rounded" footballer, but in defence for Wales he was colossal.

I do not question his ability one bit, and fit and on form I think he's a better player than either Brown or Robshaw. I'm sure many will disagree, but that's my view.

My quibble over his selection is not about ability, but rather his fitness. Is he currently fit to play in a Lions Test match? I suspect the answer is no, so Gatland is gambling on him attaining that level of fitness on the tour. It may well be that after long and hard seasons for Brown and Robshaw, Gatland felt that having a relatively fresh Lydiate and Croft would serve the Lions better. Time will tell. If Lydiate reaches full fitness on the tour, then Gatland will be vindicated. If he doesn't, and his ankle breaks down, then Gatland will have made a mistake. It's a gamble, and whilst I don't like it, I can understand it.

He's taken a similar gamble on Richie Gray. In fact it's a bigger gamble. At least Lydiate has managed a few comeback games. Spare a thought for young Joe Launchbury, or Donnacha Ryan.

Not taking three fly halves on the other hand. Well that just seems mad. As does the selection of Tom Youngs and Dylan Hartley ahead of Rory Best.

It was always going to be:


Re: back row for the lions

by RubyGuby on Mon 25 Feb 2013 - 12:50
.
Lydiate will tour no doubt about that .


RubyGuby
Posts: 5124
Join date: 2011-05-31
Location: UK

RubyGuby wrote:It was always going to be:


Re: back row for the lions

by RubyGuby on Mon 25 Feb 2013 - 12:50
.
Lydiate will tour no doubt about that .


RubyGuby
Posts: 5124
Join date: 2011-05-31
Location: UK

Not exactly surprising when Gatland was picking the squad.

Rugbyguby Lydiate doesn't carry or disrupt the breakdown and he's not an international captain. He tackles, that's about it.

Both Robshaw and Brown tackle, carry, disrupt, turn-over and lead. It's criminal that Gatland has left them behind.

There is a lot of disquiet about the selection of Dan Lydiate on the basis that he has not played enough during the season. He was on everyone's list to tour and probably start last year and rightly so. On that basis he has been selected

Im curious as to why Ross Rennie been overlooked ?
He also would have been in everyone's touring party for the same reason as Lydiate. He is at the same stage of his comeback as Lydiate and is the finest open side in Britain when fit.

This is not an attack on Lydiate or any other back row who has been selected

Heuer27 wrote:There is a lot of disquiet about the selection of Dan Lydiate on the basis that he has not played enough during the season. He was on everyone's list to tour and probably start last year and rightly so. On that basis he has been selected

Im curious as to why Ross Rennie been overlooked ?
He also would have been in everyone's touring party for the same reason as Lydiate. He is at the same stage of his comeback as Lydiate and is the finest open side in Britain when fit.

This is not an attack on Lydiate or any other back row who has been selected

Gatland believes that Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau is the best back row combo in the World

And to be fair, it was pretty good at RWC 2011 when all 3 were fully fit

beshocked wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:"I knew Brown would miss out. Surprised by Robshaw but not surprised to see Lydiate there (Gatland loves the guy evidently)."

When push comes to shove you have to choose the best and Lydiate is far far better than those 2 hard working back row players. It's quite simple really, the best player is back playing so its a no brainer; you have to go with the 2012 6 Nations Player of the Year - Class is permanent and form; well you know the rest

That's a load of horse manure and you know it. Lydiate is just yet another overhyped Welshman.

He won a subjective award last year. Last year being the important point. He hasn't played in over a year yet strolls into the Lions squad because he is best buddies with Gatland.

Playing for one of the worst sides in Europe actually boosts your Lion's chances.

What does Lydiate do that Robshaw and Brown can't do?

He does a great Lion impression.

But not against the Aussies. Rennie mullered Pocock last year when Scotland won. Pocock is injured and won't play so they have to play their second best which he would in all likely hood, also have the upper hand on.

IMO Lydiate , Heaslip and Rennie would be the the best back row combo in the world. If they were all fit.

Heuer27 wrote:But not against the Aussies. Rennie mullered Pocock last year when Scotland won. Pocock is injured and won't play so they have to play their second best which he would in all likely hood, also have the upper hand on.

IMO Lydiate , Heaslip and Rennie would be the the best back row combo in the world. If they were all fit.

I don't agree with Gatland

That's two of us then.

I was more curious as to the mindset of the selection policy. It doesn't appear to be consistent.

Why have the welsh fans had to have an argument about Lydiate on this thread? Why such a level of unpleasantness and paranoia from some of them? Why can nothing that could possibly be construed as the slightest critisim of anything welsh always produce such overblown nonsense from the welsh.

Some of you need to Grow up a bit.

*watch the outpourings of aggro at me now.*

Heuer27 wrote:But not against the Aussies. Rennie mullered Pocock last year when Scotland won. Pocock is injured and won't play so they have to play their second best which he would in all likely hood, also have the upper hand on.

IMO Lydiate , Heaslip and Rennie would be the the best back row combo in the world. If they were all fit.

I actually agree with you 100%