Danny Cipriani - the serious post

I am guilty of trivialising Cipriani's news in another post.

So I'd like to redress in some way my misdemeanour.

I have to say that I had my misgivings that when moving to Sale, Danny had made a smart move. After all moving from the bright lights and nightclub culture of London for those of Manchester is not exactly the same as booking into the Betty Ford Clinic.

A s Alty says on the other thread

Allty wrote:Its sad to see that a number of players clearly have a serious Drink problem

Maybe because of the games drink culture rugby does not have safety nets in place for these guys

And he's right.

I have a serious drink problem...2 hands but only one mouth!

In all honesty i dont really buy this ..." they have a drink problem"
Ive played rugby all my life, and its clear rugby has a drink and "lads attitude culture". Whilst we partied like good'uns noone ever went over the line to down right vandalism etc like Henson, Cipriani, Care etc etc have displayed at times and i dont recall any of my team mates ever going out of control with the drink, by having a "drink problem"

Bottom line if they cant handle their drink...and become violent or a pratt...then hey do what many have voluntarily done...DONT DRINK.

Oh and on the disciplnary measure i would welcome the lads having a pint etc...but in the situation where it well overstepped the mark...the repercusions would be severe...

Having a beer is no problem, getting drunk enough to be unsafe crossing a road is. Don't have much sympathy for anyone ending up in casualty through booze related incapacity.

Bath Quins end of season nights out plus Bathmen in court for drink-driven episodes etc.

There is an unhealthy number of alcohol-fuelled incidents in England in particular - but not exclusively...

Maybe its only become more noticeable because Rugby is taking a much higher profile these days...but if that is the case then the clubs need to get a hold of the players and make them clear....a drink is fine...making a drunken a$$ of yourself on trains...drink driving etc etc will severely hamper your career at this club.

And going on RWC tours as as a representative of your country and over-indulging will certainly have an affect on your profile or even performance.

Its not just a Rugby issue either. Tom Maynard's unfortunate passing last season and the following enquirers showed that English Cricket has similar issues, with a drinking culture developing amongst the younger players.

A lot has been put down to the fact that the players are earning far more money that they did in years gone by.

MJ unceremoniously dumped Cips from his squad.

Clearly red flags were being waved then but you have to question what action was taken. The players' Union, his clubs and the RFU don't seem to have made a lot of impact on his behaviours.

But it has to be acknowledged that the person has to willingly accept the help.

greytiger wrote:And going on RWC tours as as a representative of your country and over-indulging will certainly have an affect on your profile or even performance.

Sadly Ashton appears to be suffering from Cat Balou syndrome!

Taffineastbourne wrote:

greytiger wrote:And going on RWC tours as as a representative of your country and over-indulging will certainly have an affect on your profile or even performance.

Sadly Ashton appears to be suffering from Cat Balou syndrome!

What has Ashton got to do with this? Are you posting in the right place?

I agree with Dot, there is a trend of increased drinking (and rec drugs) by young players right across sport. More time, more money, more exposure by the media (leading to more awareness of issues and also adding pressure) and greater stress (and accordingly greater impulse to blow off steam).

Tom Maynard was a tragic incident, and issues around younger players drinking were already well known at the Surrey cricket club. I think it's as much as issue in rugby in my view, and overall it reflects society.

Sport is as good a place as any to address the issue though, as sportsmen are role models to so many youngster. I completely applaud Danny Care, for setting an excellent example in going tee total. He had a problem, it was affecting his game and his career, and was able to address it (so far).

None of this has anything to do with sociable drinking, but there's an increasing inability for folk to fail to stop when required, and behave appropriately.

FES,Ashton was high profile in the RWC high jinks that some England players got caught up in.Drink may well have played a part.Since England have gone down the sobriety route Ashton's form has nosedived,some might say splashed.
Hope this clarifies for you.

Well paid/over paid young men will always have problems once alcohol is thrown into the mix.

The trouble is these guys don’t have to mix being a top rugby player and also holding down a full time job the rest of the week.

This is the cost of the game going Pro.

How long will he be out for?
Could he have made the England team while the Lions are away?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/dannycipriani/10017040/Danny-Cipriani-misjudged-speed-of-bus-says-agent-after-double-decker-hospitalises-him-during-Leeds-pub-crawl.html

Judging from the windscreen of the bus I'd say his lucky boy to be leaving hospital today.

Kingshu wrote:How long will he be out for?
Could he have made the England team while the Lions are away?

Not a chance I think Kingshu.
Especially not now sadly.

Taffineastbourne wrote:FES,Ashton was high profile in the RWC high jinks that some England players got caught up in.Drink may well have played a part.Since England have gone down the sobriety route Ashton's form has nosedived,some might say splashed.
Hope this clarifies for you.

Well i think MJ needs a kick up the backside for the lack of control during the WC. Yes he rightly expects his troops to be grown up enough to behave themselves...however there should still have been pre warnings...and strict protocol around such incidents.
I cant see that sort of thing happening under Lancs through a WC (though he himself has shown some doubel standards regarding discipline)

I wouldnt have picked Cips for Argentina regardless...Flood gives 50 + Caps experience, someone who can get a backline moving and Burns provides the new talent. Dont need Cips disruption in the squad...

what a stupid post re: Ashton. all speculation zero facts and a massive haterd for one person.

The RWC 'jinks' were one banter video, a night out where someone celebrating their stag got drunk and the rest left early (dwarf entertainment was not a reason for going and neither were they thrown about) and Manu jumping off a ferry...


oooh .. big fecking deal.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:FES,Ashton was high profile in the RWC high jinks that some England players got caught up in.Drink may well have played a part.Since England have gone down the sobriety route Ashton's form has nosedived,some might say splashed.
Hope this clarifies for you.

Ill second that FES...

VictorU3 wrote:Well paid/over paid young men will always have problems once alcohol is thrown into the mix.

The trouble is these guys don’t have to mix being a top rugby player and also holding down a full time job the rest of the week.

This is the cost of the game going Pro.

To be fair the drink culture, is not a problem with rugby as such, it is a problem with the UK in general. I know that when I was an apprentice that there were a fair few of us who would end up with only loose change in our pockets come the end of the month because the rest of our cash was going straight into the till behind the local. I think the problem is that rugby players, and footballers too, are getting enough money a week at such a young age that they have the means to get exceptionally drunk (which tends to lead to far worse situations), when similar aged lads/gals are only able to afford to get badly drunk.

I don't think Cipriani was a serious contender for the summer tour. Toby Flood and Freddie Burns were always the front runners, and on form this season it's hard to argue with those two touring.

Speculation on this forum!Now there's a first.

damage_13 wrote:what a stupid post re: Ashton. all speculation zero facts and a massive haterd for one person.

The RWC 'jinks' were one banter video, a night out where someone celebrating their stag got drunk and the rest left early (dwarf entertainment was not a reason for going and neither were they thrown about) and Manu jumping off a ferry...


oooh .. big fecking deal.

That's all right then.Phew,glad that you cleared that up.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of going on a massive pi55 up during the season (albeit on a weekend off) what on earth were they doing in Leeds on the Otley Road pub run, it's what students (I did it a few times during my time at Leeds Uni) do - not professional sportsmen/athletes.
By all means have a "team building drink up" but surely there are better and safer ways of doing it such as taking over a resort hotel - golf/gokarting/pool/spa/etc. in the day and beers and drinking games in the evening but a bunch of 20 somethings wandering around student bars just seems a bit sad - unless they were on the pull amongst the student "body" or even worse doing the "loadsamoney" among the students.
Get them down to the Duncan or Whip and see what their made of....

Irish Londoner wrote:By all means have a "team building drink up" but surely there are better and safer ways of doing it such as taking over a resort hotel - golf/gokarting/pool/spa/etc. in the day and beers and drinking games in the evening but a bunch of 20 somethings wandering around student bars just seems a bit sad - unless they were on the pull amongst the student "body" or even worse doing the "loadsamoney" among the students.

You forget that Andy Powell is in the squad! You can't let that lad near a golf buggy in close vicinity to a motorway....

I agree though. You'd like to think that there was a better way and place to organise a team building session. Still, sad that players can't just be trusted.

I agree with those who are distinctly unimpressed with the idea of a load of professional rugby players going on a major pub crawl during the season.

Obviously we don't know whether Cipriani was a major instigator of this or just tagging along. Typical of him though to be the guy that suffers as a result.

Its not just the UK the AB's also have their problems.

Its what can be done about the problem that is important.

I've been in conversations over the years with Olympic athletes and coaches who point out they have strict rules during lead ups to competition and also fun time after.

In short its about being a professional sportsman.

Irish Londoner wrote:Regardless of the rights and wrongs of going on a massive pi55 up during the season (albeit on a weekend off) what on earth were they doing in Leeds on the Otley Road pub run, it's what students (I did it a few times during my time at Leeds Uni) do - not professional sportsmen/athletes.
By all means have a "team building drink up" but surely there are better and safer ways of doing it such as taking over a resort hotel - golf/gokarting/pool/spa/etc. in the day and beers and drinking games in the evening but a bunch of 20 somethings wandering around student bars just seems a bit sad - unless they were on the pull amongst the student "body" or even worse doing the "loadsamoney" among the students.
Get them down to the Duncan or Whip and see what their made of....

I was 32 when I did the Otley Run . Granted the work colleagues who organised it were in their early 20s.

Kiwi - did you make it to the end ? Kudos if you did.

apparently he wasn't even drunk..?!


The traditional "Otley Run" used to start in Leeds and end in Otley. The reason was that the pubs in Leeds closed at 11pm and the pubs in Otley had a special licence to open very early in the morning for the sheep and cattle market. You could get peed on the Otley Road then sober up a little before enjoying a great hand pulled pint of real ale and a hearty breakfast in the market square. Bus or train back to Leeds for the 11 am opening time.

apparently he wasn't even drunk..?!

That's curious.
What would be the point of joining this Otley Run thing (can't say I'd ever heard of it before or I just dismissed from my memory).

According to Wiki (I know, I know) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otley_Run


Woodies Ale House, Far Headingley
The Three Horseshoes, Far Headingley
The New Inn, Far Headingley
Headingley Taps, Headingley[note 1]
The Arc, Headingley[note 1]
The Box, Headingley[note 1]
The Skyrack, Headingley
The Original Oak, Headingley
The Hyde Park, Hyde Park Corner
The Library, Woodhouse Lane (formerly Feast and Firkin)[note 1]
The Packhorse, Woodhouse Lane
The Eldon, Woodhouse Lane
The Old Bar Leeds University Union[note 2]
The Terrace Leeds University Union[note 2]
The Fenton, Woodhouse Lane
Strawberry Fields,(Strawbs) Woodhouse Lane
The Dry Dock, Woodhouse Lane

So if Cips 'wasn't drunk' after 17 pub visits in fancy dress, even if he had a half at every stop, then he'd likely to have a very serious problem.

But it would not help explain how he collided with a double-decker bus.
They are quite hard to avoid seeing.
Well - in single focus anyway.

Irish Londoner wrote:Kiwi - did you make it to the end ? Kudos if you did.

Almost. The last 2 pubs were closed when we got to them

I blame the lock in in an Irish pub in London the night before, plus my train up to Leeds being delayed.


I seriously doubt I'd be able to manage more than half-way now.

The problem with the Otley Run is it is now constituted is the quality of the beer - all the pubs used be real ale (proper Tetleys brewed in Leeds in most cases) looking at the current list you'd end up on lager or alcopops session, part of the run was the stamina element of knocking down all the ale....

I think there is a real issue with the attitude of rugby authorities and drinking. Just look at the difference between the treatment of Mike tindall - two convictions for drunk driving and no censure and Matt Stevens - no criminal conviction but admitted cocaine use - two year ban.

One guilty of a serious criminal offense - the drunk, the other no conviction - Stevens.

“He has always been an awful drinker and he could never handle it,” a pal revealed. “It became a bit of a joke so he would always stick to pineapple juice."

A friend of Cipriani was quoted as saying: “He hates drinking and hates the big rugby nights out. He only went because if he’s not there then he gets slammed for not being a team player. The whole drinking culture is not him and that is why the incident on Wednesday is so frustrating.”