Adios London Welsh!

Well,the dream is over.
'twas always going to be a tough ask without the points reduction.Shame really.Not sure how many games Henson managed,it didn't seem to be many.
Are they back to Old Deer Park or are they sticking with Oxford?
Best wishes to Newcastle!

I doubt the club will survive. Their main investor has just backed out. Things looking bleak for the club.

Ouch not a nice way for these things to go. Feel bad for the players who could have done enough if the back room staff hadn't then mucked everything up.

If only there were some kind of criteria for what state clubs should be in before they come up to the Prem and if they didn't meet them they were kept in the Championship...

yappysnap wrote:Ouch not a nice way for these things to go. Feel bad for the players who could have done enough if the back room staff hadn't then mucked everything up.

If only there were some kind of criteria for what state clubs should be in before they come up to the Prem and if they didn't meet them they were kept in the Championship...

You mean some sort of sustainable structure - like their own stadium for instance?

Does anyone know if the Pro and amateur sides of the club are separate entities?

I would say that the actions of Mike Scott totally derailed Welsh in the second half of the season. They haven't won a game since the Tyson Keats' situation came to light.

Credit to Welsh, they went straight to the RFU and told them what had happened. The resulting 5 point deduction also seemed to galvanise Sale, who were bloody awful up to that point.

Still, my other team, Ealing, are promoted to the Championship so we'll welcome Welsh to Vallis Way next season.

LT yeah I'm pretty certain they are seperate clubs, they were split to protect both clubs financially

Looseheaded wrote:LT yeah I'm pretty certain they are seperate clubs, they were split to protect both clubs financially

Pleased to hear that.

Bad luck for Welsh, they've got a decent defence and a great counter attack but they've not got the set piece foundation nor the big ball carriers to grab the needed points over the winter period.

Hound of Harrow wrote:I would say that the actions of Mike Scott totally derailed Welsh in the second half of the season. They haven't won a game since the Tyson Keats' situation came to light.

Credit to Welsh, they went straight to the RFU and told them what had happened. The resulting 5 point deduction also seemed to galvanise Sale, who were bloody awful up to that point.

Still, my other team, Ealing, are promoted to the Championship so we'll welcome Welsh to Vallis Way next season.

Didn't they wait a couple of months before informing the RFU? And they didn't investigate when the RFU raised the issue with someone other than Scott

They certainly weren't as blameless as they try to make out ...

Yea they played Quins and another using Keats after Scott had left and after the RFU had spoken to them

Hound of Harrow wrote:I would say that the actions of Mike Scott totally derailed Welsh in the second half of the season. They haven't won a game since the Tyson Keats' situation came to light.

Credit to Welsh, they went straight to the RFU and told them what had happened. The resulting 5 point deduction also seemed to galvanise Sale, who were bloody awful up to that point.

Still, my other team, Ealing, are promoted to the Championship so we'll welcome Welsh to Vallis Way next season.

Congrats to the Trailfinders, Hound - look forward to seeing you at the RAG next season

But that's got nothing to do with the players, who gave their all and did a hell of a lot better than most expected. Fair play to them and Lyn and co.

Oh and how funny would it be if Newcastle didn't win the playoffs and Welsh stayed up?

So after this season where is Gavin Henson of to next? Cna't see him staying and playing in the championship.

Would a move to Dragons be on the books?

Hammer, surely it doesn't matter who wins the playoffs, after the court decision last season anyone who wins the Championship can go up, assuming they can find a suitable ground by the start of the season.

Great respect to the LW players who has nothing to do with this, however I am dissapointed that Kelvin Bryon appears to be pulling the plug on the team basically in a fit of "taking my ball home", the RFU apparently hate him and he can't understand why the RFU/PRL insist on wanting England qualifed players in an English side if he wants to get additional funding as he appears to want Welsh ones.

Would he be better taking advantage of the unique status of LW as members of the WRO and RFU and asking to join the Robocop as the fifth region - they would need very little in the way of WRU funding and would get decent crowds when the Irish and Welsh came to town.

Kingshu wrote:So after this season where is Gavin Henson of to next? Cna't see him staying and playing in the championship.

Would a move to Dragons be on the books?

wouldn't that be worse than playing in the championship?

Are London Irish duel members of the IRFU and RFU same way as London Welsh?

If the H-cup does go down the pan, extending the Pro 12 to have London Welsh maybe London Irish, and even possible London Scottish, would be an idea.

The players and supporters of LW have my sympathies, however it does seem that those in charge of the club have went hell bent for the percieved financial rewards as opposed to what's good for the club.

They already have been in administration once, I wonder what will happen to them if they go bust again?


From my limited knowledge of the situation I believe London Irish have cut all ties with the Irish Union and are Irish in name only.

HammerofThunor wrote:Oh and how funny would it be if Newcastle didn't win the playoffs and Welsh stayed up?

With both Bristol and Leeds in the top 4 who are both qualified(nit 100% on Leeds) I can't see it being a problem.

If not they can kick off like London welsh did and come up anyway

I believe Notts have first dibs on Meadow Lane because of their heightened chance of tv coverage. They aren't particularly flush off the field but are developing and after LW would probably go up via the courts if required.

They look the most likely to challenge Falcons at the minute.

I might be wrong but I've got a bad feeling (from the view of fans of LW) that they signed up for more than 1 year at Oxford. They struggled to bring in large crowds for premiership rugby, they will surely be in real trouble crowd vs costs wise at championside level.

And as someone mentioned above, yes the amateur and pro sections are different now. The old third XV is now called the LW amateurs 1st XV.

I see that the outgoing backer is complaining that the EQP payments are effectively restraint of trade.

Feel sorry for the players and coachs. Don't feel sorry for the backroom staff, they seem to blame everyone else but themselves. Show some responsibility!!

Kingshu wrote:Are London Irish duel members of the IRFU and RFU same way as London Welsh?

If the H-cup does go down the pan, extending the Pro 12 to have London Welsh maybe London Irish, and even possible London Scottish, would be an idea.

London Irish have no connection with Irish rugby - bridges burnt long ago

So, its pretty much confirmed that Lon Welsh are going to be relegated now. Barring a massive F-Up by Bristol, Leeds, Newcastle and an amazing run from Bedford/Nottingham.

OK - so, Lon Welsh surprise everyone by winning the championship playoffs.
They seek promotion but RFU/PR have issues over the promotion criteria.
Lon Welsh takes them to court and win promotion.

Lon Welsh enter a team of mercenaries into the JP Morgan 7's and clean up in the early stages - not really entering into the spirit of the occasion. (rubbing a few supporters of other clubs up the wrong way).

The team/squad recruit heavily and quickly bring in a lot of older experienced players and keep their existing squad.

Team performs admirably in early matches showing a lot of grit and determination to squeeze some good wins and some narrow losses.

Welsh probably thought enough had been done to stay up considering poor performance from Sale and Lon Irish.

Discrepancies found in player registration - 1 man (who was a representative of the club) was found guilty of criminal acts. Club docked 5 league points.
Considering the precedents set for similar incidents this was a lenient penalty in my view.

Club relegated to Championship for next season - Financial backer has walked due to being fed up with rugby in England and how its run.

Its a difficult time for Lon Welsh - I wonder how many of their new signings have relegation clauses!
I do hope that they find another backer and that they remain as a professional entity.
Use the premiership experience they have gained and come back stronger and with a more professional admin/back room team.

It sounds harsh but perhaps PR have been vindicated a little in showing that Welsh didnt have the set up required for premiership rugby.

Knackeredknees wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Oh and how funny would it be if Newcastle didn't win the playoffs and Welsh stayed up?

With both Bristol and Leeds in the top 4 who are both qualified(nit 100% on Leeds) I can't see it being a problem.

If not they can kick off like London welsh did and come up anyway

Believe the current top 5 all would qualify. The last play off position is still a bit open. On current form, Bedford look likely to end up 3rd (game in hand and only lower placed clubs to play) 4th likely to go to Leeds but Bristol still in with a chance. Leeds ahead at the moment but both clubs facing top 2 opposition in their final game.

Do Bedford qualify?

Not sure what regulations have been overturned, but Goldington Rd fails to meet many of the old ones. Have they suggested playing elsewhere?

Not sure but was led to believe they did last season. Don't know what provisions have been made.

I was under the impression that Goldington Rd had a capacity that was too low, insufficient toilets and substandard medical facilities.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Are London Irish duel members of the IRFU and RFU same way as London Welsh?

If the H-cup does go down the pan, extending the Pro 12 to have London Welsh maybe London Irish, and even possible London Scottish, would be an idea.

London Irish have no connection with Irish rugby - bridges burnt long ago

They don't have any connection to London either...

HammerofThunor wrote:Oh and how funny would it be if Newcastle didn't win the playoffs and Welsh stayed up?

Not funny at ALL!!!!

Has there ever been such a farsical situation that we could beat bristol next week meaning we have won every single game this season...yet still not gain promotion due to one defeat in the play offs??!!!!!!! Its a f&*king joke!
Happened to Bristol last year....one of the main reasons i was so anti LW at the start of the season.

Play offs are fine IF there are places for automatic promotions. Ie Top team goes up, second promotion is for the play off winner.

SORT IT OUT !!!!

Welsh won in the courts because they met standards the current Premiership clubs and only failed ones that current Premiership teams. Also the requirements have been re-written to ensure this can't happen again.

Watched a bit of the Nottingham v Pirates game and it's was sounding like Pirates are eligible or will be. Has their new ground been approved now?

GeordieFalcon, I meant funny in abstract, neutral way. But hey, you need to be able to win the big games as well. (I do agree that the current playoffs should be scrapped. It'll be interesting to know hom much money they generate).

Sorry mate...just a bit touchy on it.

We were saved by it a few years back, Britsol lost out last year and theres always a potential that we could again.

Why should a team that has won every game actually face the possibility of not being promoted.

And as for winning the big games? We've won EVERY game...ie all our main contenders...the big games.
Hopefully we'll be fine though and win the playoffs...as we deserve to.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sorry mate...just a bit touchy on it.

We were saved by it a few years back, Britsol lost out last year and theres always a potential that we could again.

Why should a team that has won every game actually face the possibility of not being promoted.

And as for winning the big games? We've won EVERY game...ie all our main contenders...the big games.
Hopefully we'll be fine though and win the playoffs...as we deserve to.

True, true. It's just an artificial way of extending the season really.

Geordie, fully agree that it will be a travesty if the Falcons miss out, I understand why the financials in the Premiership are they way they are, coming from the intial rush to professionalism and the collapse of various clubs who tried to keep up, but maybe now is the time for a proper rethink of the Premiership and Championship structures given the BT money that's available.
Have two promotion places from the Championship, one for the champions and one for the playoff winners but also fund the Championship (and take it seriously in terms of finance,TV coverage,etc.) so that relegated teams can survive a season or two if they go down. A proper two division league system (possibly ringfenced) with TV coverage and fairly distriubuted finance would be really good for the development of the game and young players.

The RFU control the TV rights for the Championship and these are held by Sky. We perhaps are heading for a 2 tier system franchise system? I think that's what the RFU wanted (hence the ridiculous previous play off system).

Of course if this came in there would be those just outside saying it was a closed shop, etc, etc. The balance between sabalising the top and allowing freedom of movement is very fine and someone somewhere won't be happy whatever the system.

The Championship is a mess in terms of support, finance, status and just about any other thing you can think of that would make a second tier work. I hate play offs but would accept it if two places were up for grabs with the division champion getting automatic promotion and the second place the play off winner. At the moment less than half the Championship teams could ever meet the criteria and that won't change unless there is clear and meaningful support for the division and it's participants. Little interest is shown by the media in general to what's happening below the Jeff unless there are contentious stories to be exploited so it tends to be negative when it happens. God forbid that Falcons miss out, they are the clear and deserving promotion team and will be a lot stronger in the Jeff for having a year out. Leeds and Bristol will generally be in the hunt but are not ready for the step up. I doubt Nottingham would fair well if they did sneak it and would be straight back down. There's a core of clubs who are marginal Jeff sides and every year tend to be in the same plight but that's inevitable. Saints and Exeter have been exceptions who have done well on promotion. Falcons will be OK I reckon but Worcester, Irish and Sale will have battle on their hands to stay up. Should we drop the divisions to 10 with 2 up 2 down and a bigger share go to the Championship for development and more media coverage. Make Championship clubs declare their plans for the future. If they have no intention (or hope) of promotion give them a lesser share. I don't know, just think it's a shambles.

HammerofThunor wrote:Welsh won in the courts because they met standards the current Premiership clubs and only failed ones that current Premiership teams. Also the requirements have been re-written to ensure this can't happen again.

Watched a bit of the Nottingham v Pirates game and it's was sounding like Pirates are eligible or will be. Has their new ground been approved now?

GeordieFalcon, I meant funny in abstract, neutral way. But hey, you need to be able to win the big games as well. (I do agree that the current playoffs should be scrapped. It'll be interesting to know hom much money they generate).

I think I'm right in saying that the new ground will be ready in 2015? Its good for the championship to have as many teams as possible eligible for promotion I think and personally I'd love to see the Pirates make the step up.

I agree we need the teams in the championship becoming more competitive and driving up the standards.

There are some great clubs around England (below champioship levels aswell)...and if they can get their plan together like Exeter have done for example why should they be stopped a chance of playing the prem.

But the whole process needs to be overhauled.

I've always thought that having a league where over half the clubs dont meet the minimum standards or would be able to sustain a fully professional team is ridiculous.

I'd have 2 leagues 10 teams, 2up 2 down ringfence them and a cup competition or even some kind of cross league fixtures between the leagues.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/9996274/London-Welsh-say-they-may-be-forced-to-quit-Kassam-Stadium-as-a-result-of-relegation-to-the-Championship.html


In fact they can leave and go back to Old Deer Park. It will be interesting to see which they go for as ODP is never going to be allowed to be redeveloped so if they were promoted again they would have to move.

as ODP is never going to be allowed to be redeveloped

Why don't the LW leadership challenge this in the courts?

TrailApe wrote:

as ODP is never going to be allowed to be redeveloped

Why don't the LW leadership challenge this in the courts?

Somehow I think the Crown estate may be slightly less inept in the courts than the RFU!

Bathman_in_London wrote:Somehow I think the Crown estate may be slightly less inept in the courts than the RFU!

Only slightly though. I vote we overthrow old Queenie and get ourselves one of them fancy Presidents I hear about on the news all the time.

LONG LIVE ODP!!

Looseheaded wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:Somehow I think the Crown estate may be slightly less inept in the courts than the RFU!

Only slightly though. I vote we overthrow old Queenie and get ourselves one of them fancy Presidents I hear about on the news all the time.

LONG LIVE ODP!!

Wouldn't it be great if the reason the UK finally got rid of the monachy was so a rugby ground could be developed on ex-Crown land? I'd love it.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Looseheaded wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:Somehow I think the Crown estate may be slightly less inept in the courts than the RFU!

Only slightly though. I vote we overthrow old Queenie and get ourselves one of them fancy Presidents I hear about on the news all the time.

LONG LIVE ODP!!

Wouldn't it be great if the reason the UK finally got rid of the monachy was so a rugby ground could be developed on ex-Crown land? I'd love it.

Better reason than any (other than the moronic system which allows people a life of excessive wealth and luxury through the simple chance of who they were born to)

Also on the subject of LW's future plans if we were to return to Kew over the next few years we could look to sort out a decent structure including an academy, which'll result in less reliance on hacks and journeymen, who whilst have their own things to offer, come as players ususally unable to make the cut elsewhere.

Then if in the next few years we do find our way back up, we can look to Brentford again, as their stadium plans may have changed again as they have for the past few years now.

I wonder if LW will be keeping an eye on Wasps plans. If they move back to London then its quite possible that Brentford would be a possible option which would eat into the fan/young player base.


Of course if ODP was developed somehow, that would mean Richmond/LS would be able to redevelop too. That would be a real concentration of good quality rugby stadia!