Inept Guscott opinion once again.

Hi Jerry, after Wilkinson and O' Connell shone in their respective Heineken Cup quarter-final matches, do you think Warren Gatland will have them in mind for his upcoming Lions selection now? Is it just too late in their careers? MattB
Hi MattB, I can't fault Jonny Wilkinson's or Paul O'Connell's performances at the weekend. Both were big influences in their teams' wins. At fly-half the Lions aren't overly blessed; Sexton is a definite but then it gets thin with Flood, Farrell and Biggar - so Wilkinson must be in with a big shout.
Second row is very competitive and I'm not so sure O'Connell will make it, but his experience would help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22070244

So Biggar is thin is he Jeremy? What a sad comment, especially when you compare Sexton to Biggars performance in the 6 Nations, Sexton was miles behind the 6 Nations winner. Wilkinson in with a shot bwhahahahahaha. Gatland ain't gonna make the same mistake as that numpty in 2003.

2003?

Guscott's right that fly half isn't a particularly strong position for the Lions.

rainbow-warrior wrote:especially when you compare Sexton to Biggars performance in the 6 Nations, Sexton was miles behind the 6 Nations winner.

Sexton only played one match in the 6N.....against Wales.

It's a poor choice of words and very glib comment but at least he doesn't go all superlative like the sky muppets and claim Farrell is the best thing since Chris Ashton.
And seeing as you're compare Sexton with Biggar in the six nations, Sexton did come out on top in their head to head in realistically what was Jonny's only game.

Submachine wrote:It's a poor choice of words and very glib comment but at least he doesn't go all superlative like the sky muppets and claim Farrell is the best thing since Chris Ashton.
And seeing as you're compare Sexton with Biggar in the six nations, Sexton did come out on top in their head to head in realistically what was Jonny's only game.

Funny that you complain about Guscotts comments when you got your analysis of Sexton so badly wrong. Mind you I often dont agree with Jeremy guscott though he is growing on me a bit lately.

firstly, Guscott is a tube imo



but the OP here is just laughable!

rainbow-warrior
What is it that's wrong with Guscott's reply? I think he's right! Biggar played ok in the 6N;s, and will probably tour as a result, but he hardly set the world alight. Id definately consider JW to be in with a good shout of claiming a place though, behind Sexton, fighting for a bench spot.

He's pretty much right so i'm not sure what your point is other than yet again to be grinding your anti-English axe.

O'Connell had a great, great game against Quins, but should he be a Lions starter? Probably not, Gatland might watch him in the coming weeks though. O'Connell moving up the pecking order isn't out of the question.

I'd have Sexton, then Farrell/Flood but i'd have Wilkinson over Biggar based on current form. No contest, Wilkinson is ripping up trees for Toulon and back to almost his best i'd say.

I think O'Connell at his best is the best lock in the NH and in all fairness he looks to be at his best now so why not bring him. He has a very good chance I think.

GunsGerms wrote:

Submachine wrote:It's a poor choice of words and very glib comment but at least he doesn't go all superlative like the sky muppets and claim Farrell is the best thing since Chris Ashton.
And seeing as you're compare Sexton with Biggar in the six nations, Sexton did come out on top in their head to head in realistically what was Jonny's only game.

Funny that you complain about Guscotts comments when you got your analysis of Sexton so badly wrong. Mind you I often dont agree with Jeremy guscott though he is growing on me a bit lately.

I analysed Sexton?

GunsGerms wrote:I think O'Connell at his best is the best lock in the NH and in all fairness he looks to be at his best now so why not bring him. He has a very good chance I think.

Oh I agree, he should tour, I just question whether he should start. As I say, Gatland will watch him over the coming weeks to see if his form holds.

Effervescing Elephant wrote:2003?

2005

AXE? with you fist

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Submachine wrote:It's a poor choice of words and very glib comment but at least he doesn't go all superlative like the sky muppets and claim Farrell is the best thing since Chris Ashton.
And seeing as you're compare Sexton with Biggar in the six nations, Sexton did come out on top in their head to head in realistically what was Jonny's only game.

Funny that you complain about Guscotts comments when you got your analysis of Sexton so badly wrong. Mind you I often dont agree with Jeremy guscott though he is growing on me a bit lately.

I analysed Sexton?

Sorry meant the OP. Picked the wrong quote Sub.

Guscott has said some pretty silly things, and he doesn't bother to put in the time to watch rugby and as such his often just shoots from the hip, but on this occassion I agree with him on both points.

In terms of ability, Sexton is the clear front runner for the 10 jersey, and I'd say Farrell and Biggar lead the fight for the bench. However, in terms of allround game, I do think there's a drop between Sexton and the other two.

Even if you disagree, it's hardly an outrageous comment. Plenty people share the same view. Compare that to his "Richie Gray resembles bambi on ice and will make little impact" comment before last years 6 Nations!!

Nothing wrong with that comment. Sexton's all round game and experience is better than any of our other realistic options. Farrell and Biggar blow hot and cold and are nothing spectacular yet, so after Wilkinson's solid performances it isn't daft to suggest he might be in with a shout.

Even if you disagree, it's hardly an outrageous comment. Plenty people share the same view. Compare that to his "Richie Gray resembles bambi on ice and will make little impact" comment before last years 6 Nations!!

Haha classic Guscott! The guy is such a numpty!!! Proof that great players dont necessarily make good analysts!

EnglishReign wrote:Nothing wrong with that comment. Sexton's all round game and experience is better than any of our other realistic options. Farrell and Biggar blow hot and cold and are nothing spectacular yet, so after Wilkinson's solid performances it isn't daft to suggest he might be in with a shout.

True enough. Wilko has the same problem as Andy Sheriden and Gethin Jenkins though - Toulon are probably going to be in the Top14 final, which means they'll miss the start of the tour. And Gatland has said he won't pick anyone who can't be there for the whole trip. Granted, Gatland has been known to change his mind before

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Nothing wrong with that comment. Sexton's all round game and experience is better than any of our other realistic options. Farrell and Biggar blow hot and cold and are nothing spectacular yet, so after Wilkinson's solid performances it isn't daft to suggest he might be in with a shout.

True enough. Wilko has the same problem as Andy Sheriden and Gethin Jenkins though - Toulon are probably going to be in the Top14 final, which means they'll miss the start of the tour. And Gatland has said he won't pick anyone who can't be there for the whole trip. Granted, Gatland has been known to change his mind before

Gatland's gonna take Gethin though surely, isnt he??? possibly Sheridan as well although he wouldnt be my choice. JW may miss out mind given Gatland's comments on Rugby Club about taking two 10's and a utility back who can play 10.

Jimpy wrote:He's pretty much right so i'm not sure what your point is other than yet again to be grinding your anti-English axe.

O'Connell had a great, great game against Quins, but should he be a Lions starter? Probably not, Gatland might watch him in the coming weeks though. O'Connell moving up the pecking order isn't out of the question.

I'd have Sexton, then Farrell/Flood but i'd have Wilkinson over Biggar based on current form. No contest, Wilkinson is ripping up trees for Toulon and back to almost his best i'd say.

Agree with all that. You could do far worse than have Wilkinson as captain for the dirt-trackers.

Biltong wrote:Jimpy, your post has been removed, once again if you don't agree with a poster either disgree in a constructive manner with his comment, or don't get involved in the debate.

Accusations towards posters of xenophobia etc are not tolerated here.

Yeah, okay.

I think Guscott has been talking a lot of sense suprisingly.

Currently I would take Sexton,Farrell, Wilkinson.

Personally I think Biggar is overhyped. Has a very poor track record in the HC.

He had a pretty good 6 nations but had a very patchy international record before that.

Farrell,Wilkinson and Sexton have European matches to showcase their talents whereas Biggar will be twiddling his thumbs for Ospreys.

beshocked wrote:I think Guscott has been talking a lot of sense suprisingly.

Currently I would take Sexton,Farrell, Wilkinson.

Personally I think Biggar is overhyped. Has a very poor track record in the HC.

He had a pretty good 6 nations but had a very patchy international record before that.

Farrell,Wilkinson and Sexton have European matches to showcase their talents whereas Biggar will be twiddling his thumbs for Ospreys.

Bit harsh. I really like Biggar, he has a very good all round game and is certainly good enough to tour, no doubt about than. However, at this point he may just get left out down to simply other options being preferred to his game.

The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

You also need to be fit - is Sexton going to be ready in time? And if he is, will he be match fit?

Jimpy wrote:

Biltong wrote:Jimpy, your post has been removed, once again if you don't agree with a poster either disgree in a constructive manner with his comment, or don't get involved in the debate.

Accusations towards posters of xenophobia etc are not tolerated here.

Yeah, okay.

Look, you can't go stealth editing to make it look like I agree with you...

Jimpy wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Biltong wrote:Jimpy, your post has been removed, once again if you don't agree with a poster either disgree in a constructive manner with his comment, or don't get involved in the debate.

Accusations towards posters of xenophobia etc are not tolerated here.

Yeah, okay.

Look, you can't go stealth editing to make it look like I agree with you...

it was either that or I would have to warn you again. This time it would be with consequences.

Can we have a 'handbags' emoticon please...

Jimpy wrote:

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

You also need to be fit - is Sexton going to be ready in time? And if he is, will he be match fit?

Yes he is almost fit again but will not feature v Munster this weekend cause not quite there yet. He will be ready.

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

Biggar has 16 caps (11 starts, 5 off the bench). However he has been limited in the teams he has played against (Canada x2, USA, Samoa x 2, NZ x2, Aus x2, Fiji, Baabaas, Ireland, France, Italy, Scotland, England),

Won 9, (England, Scotland, Italy, France, Baabaas, Samoa, USA, Canada x2)
Drawn 1, (Fiji)
Lost 6. (NZ x2, Aus x2, Samoa, Ireland)

IMO he was the fly half of the 6Ns, granted Sexton went absent, and should go on the Lions tour.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

Biggar has 16 caps (11 starts, 5 off the bench). However he has been limited in the teams he has played against (Canada x2, USA, Samoa x 2, NZ x2, Aus x2, Fiji, Baabaas, Ireland, France, Italy, Scotland, England),

Won 9, (England, Scotland, Italy, France, Baabaas, Samoa, USA, Canada x2)
Drawn 1, (Fiji)
Lost 6. (NZ x2, Aus x2, Samoa, Ireland)

IMO he was the fly half of the 6Ns, granted Sexton went absent, and should go on the Lions tour.

I agree, Wilkinson will need someone to polish his boots.

Biggar has also matured a great deal. His first time round with Wales he was too man sausage-sure of himself and thought he knew it all. He is now more level headed and will become one of the best. Fact is he will have to do it as a No 10 minus kicking which will be harder to do. He will be famed for more than just a drop goal in extra time.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Biggar has also matured a great deal. His first time round with Wales he was too man sausage-sure of himself and thought he knew it all. He is now more level headed and will become one of the best. Fact is he will have to do it as a No 10 minus kicking which will be harder to do. He will be famed for more than just a drop goal in extra time.

Hahahahah "man-sausage" I said 'c-o-c-k sure'

rainbow-warrior wrote:Biggar has also matured a great deal. His first time round with Wales he was too man sausage-sure of himself and thought he knew it all. He is now more level headed and will become one of the best. Fact is he will have to do it as a No 10 minus kicking which will be harder to do. He will be famed for more than just a drop goal in extra time.

Yes, but the likelihood that Biggar will be given the chance to drop a goal in injury time during a WC final are miniscule. Unless of course, he finds an English relative, like the other half of the Welsh team. Then he might get a pop at it....

:-)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

Biggar has 16 caps (11 starts, 5 off the bench). However he has been limited in the teams he has played against (Canada x2, USA, Samoa x 2, NZ x2, Aus x2, Fiji, Baabaas, Ireland, France, Italy, Scotland, England),

Won 9, (England, Scotland, Italy, France, Baabaas, Samoa, USA, Canada x2)
Drawn 1, (Fiji)
Lost 6. (NZ x2, Aus x2, Samoa, Ireland)

IMO he was the fly half of the 6Ns, granted Sexton went absent, and should go on the Lions tour.

well if he has sixteen caps then he isn't as inexperiencedcas I thought, and his form hasn't been bad at all, I thought he made his debut end of last year?

Biltong wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

Biggar has 16 caps (11 starts, 5 off the bench). However he has been limited in the teams he has played against (Canada x2, USA, Samoa x 2, NZ x2, Aus x2, Fiji, Baabaas, Ireland, France, Italy, Scotland, England),

Won 9, (England, Scotland, Italy, France, Baabaas, Samoa, USA, Canada x2)
Drawn 1, (Fiji)
Lost 6. (NZ x2, Aus x2, Samoa, Ireland)

IMO he was the fly half of the 6Ns, granted Sexton went absent, and should go on the Lions tour.

well if he has sixteen caps then he isn't as inexperiencedcas I thought, and his form hasn't been bad at all, I thought he made his debut end of last year?

Biggar did it the hard way, fell from grace because he though he knew it all. He won't make the same mistake again and will earn his caps and Lions starts from skill rather than dropping goals in extra time and being made a freak of the media.

Bilt - he has been around for a while, I think he got his first cap almost straight out of hte under 20s, but was stuck in the que behind Jones, Hook, Henson?. And then when Jones stepped aside, Biggar had a bit of a rep as a gobsoite and Priestland was all fresh faced and leap frogged him.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Biltong wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

Biggar has 16 caps (11 starts, 5 off the bench). However he has been limited in the teams he has played against (Canada x2, USA, Samoa x 2, NZ x2, Aus x2, Fiji, Baabaas, Ireland, France, Italy, Scotland, England),

Won 9, (England, Scotland, Italy, France, Baabaas, Samoa, USA, Canada x2)
Drawn 1, (Fiji)
Lost 6. (NZ x2, Aus x2, Samoa, Ireland)

IMO he was the fly half of the 6Ns, granted Sexton went absent, and should go on the Lions tour.

well if he has sixteen caps then he isn't as inexperiencedcas I thought, and his form hasn't been bad at all, I thought he made his debut end of last year?

Biggar did it the hard way, fell from grace because he though he knew it all. He won't make the same mistake again and will earn his caps and Lions starts from skill rather than dropping goals in extra time and being made a freak of the media.

You do realise that to reach that point in time, Wilkinson had to play for years in a team that built towards that point in time. He was the best fly half in the world at that point - he wasn't just parachuted in you know...Seriously, are you for real?

Cheers scarlett, but he was out of the running for a few years then?

Biltong wrote:Cheers scarlett, but he was out of the running for a few years then?

In the squad nearly every time, but never able to break it on to the bench.

If Gatty is thinking of two 10's and a utility then the choices become a lot more clear.

Out and out 10's:

Sexton, Biggar, Wilkinson (nowadays)

Utility:

Farrell, Laidlaw, Madigan, Hook

Now given Wilkinson's likely appearance in the Top14 final that would be seen to rule him out of the running. Biggar has played well this season and deserves to go as well as Sexton who is the likely test starter.

Now comes the utility choice. The obvious question is where will the utility play if not at 10. Laidlaw covers 9, Farrell centre and both Madigan and Hook cover centre and full back.

Greig Laidlaw is some people's back up 9 so he may tour regardless, Farrell brings stability and a boot like few others so he has to be a candidate and Hook is well known to Gatland and covers a variety of positions. But my current 3rd fly half would be Madigan.

He's been left out of a number of Irish training camps over the past year or so, unfairly in most people's opinion, and has developed into a very exciting 10. He brings a different style of play than any other flyhalf, and no one can say he's not playing at the top level, considering on current form Sexton is likely to be benching for Leinster when he returns to full fitness.

So I'd take Sexton, Biggar and Madigan, and if Madigan wasn't to tour I'd expect Farrell to go in his place.

Ulstermaninglasgow the Pro12 is not the top level.


Internationals then the HC are the top level.

I know there is a belief on this forum that the Pro12 is the greatest league in the world. Glasgow and Connacht are two of the best sides in Europe. If you play in the Pro12 you should be considered for the Lions irrespective of whether you play for your country or whether you have been injured for a long time.

Certainly the perception I get.

Surprised you aren't supporting Paddy Jackson for a slot!

Jimpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Biltong wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Biltong wrote:The problem is Sxton has been consistent and has loads more experience than Biggar, How many tests has Biggar now played in Tests, 5 or 6?

So it makes sense that Sexton will be ahead in the race, to beat australia you wnt an experienced half back pairing.

Biggar has 16 caps (11 starts, 5 off the bench). However he has been limited in the teams he has played against (Canada x2, USA, Samoa x 2, NZ x2, Aus x2, Fiji, Baabaas, Ireland, France, Italy, Scotland, England),

Won 9, (England, Scotland, Italy, France, Baabaas, Samoa, USA, Canada x2)
Drawn 1, (Fiji)
Lost 6. (NZ x2, Aus x2, Samoa, Ireland)

IMO he was the fly half of the 6Ns, granted Sexton went absent, and should go on the Lions tour.

well if he has sixteen caps then he isn't as inexperiencedcas I thought, and his form hasn't been bad at all, I thought he made his debut end of last year?

Biggar did it the hard way, fell from grace because he though he knew it all. He won't make the same mistake again and will earn his caps and Lions starts from skill rather than dropping goals in extra time and being made a freak of the media.

You do realise that to reach that point in time, Wilkinson had to play for years in a team that built towards that point in time. He was the best fly half in the world at that point - he wasn't just parachuted in you know...Seriously, are you for real?

I don't think Gatland will take Biggar. He wasn't too quick to select him for Wales. I also think Farrell is a similar type of player but better.

beshocked wrote:Ulstermaninglasgow the Pro12 is not the top level.


Internationals then the HC are the top level.

I know there is a belief on this forum that the Pro12 is the greatest league in the world. Glasgow and Connacht are two of the best sides in Europe. If you play in the Pro12 you should be considered for the Lions irrespective of whether you play for your country or whether you have been injured for a long time.

Certainly the perception I get.

Surprised you aren't supporting Paddy Jackson for a slot!

Wasn't saying it was beshocked...

Jackson needs at least another year to develop before going on a Lions tour, as probably does Farrell in truth. And Madigan has played HC rugby, and Amlin rugby, which is at the very least a step up from Pro12. You can't not be impressed by his performance vs Wasps, who are pretty high up in the AP this season no?

I don't think Glasgow or Connacht ARE the best sides in Europe. Glasgow have the potential to be one in the next few years yes but they have to start doing more in their groups. Maybe if they come away with the Pro12 this season they'll have more confidence to go on and progress in the HC.

I think that Gatland cannot fail to have been impressed by Madigan and I expect him to make another appearance in the RDS at the next round of the ACC... He brings something else that none of the other 10's who have been mentioned brings, not even Sexton. He's got a running game from 10 and his kicking has improved immensely this season. He's close to 90% from the tee over his last 5/6 games and is in form. Why shouldn't he be considered?

Agree about Jackson. Don't about Farrell. Very underrated by Pro12 fans.

Didn't see the match vs Wasps but Wasps have been in very poor form recently. 7th in the AP is alright I suppose.

I just can't understand why you think Jackson is not ready,Farrell is not ready yet someone with less experience than both is ready.

I know you say you think he offers something no other player does but he's just not experienced enough.

Do you think Gatland should focus on just Pro12 players and those playing in the Amlin then? Fair enough.

Madigan is more experienced in terms of playing time than both of them... He's played for the past 3/4 years for the first team in Leinster in Pro12 and HC games. He's started more games in the past 2 years for Leinster in the League than Sexton and if it weren't for Kidney's inexplicable dislike for him, he would have been the Irish no. 2 in the past 2 years.

And where do I say that Gatland should focus on Amlin and Pro12? All I said is I expect him to be in Dublin on the Saturday. He may be in Clermont but there is every chance he will be at the Leinster game. There's more probable Lions in the Leinster team than the Munster one. I fully expect him to be at Twickenham on the Sunday too...

All I was trying to do is say he's an option and the one I'd like to see go. I'd have no trouble in seeing Laidlaw or Farrell or Hook going. But they're all very similar to Sexton and Biggar. Shouldn't we go with something a bit more different? A gamechanger?

I might be wrong but I thought Sexton was the number 1 fly half for Leinster. Of course when not injured.

Madigan is not more experienced than Farrell though.

6+8 in the HC and Amlin for Madigan.
8+4 in the HC for Jackson
17+1 in the HC for Farrell.


38+23 for Madigan in the Pro12.
18+6 for Jackson in the Pro12.
42+3 for Farrell in the AP.

Internationals

16 for Farrell
2 for Madigan
3 caps for Jackson

Sexton is supposed to be number 1 but with Ireland commitments and the Rest Protocols he has played about half the number of league games that Madigan has. However he does usually start the HC games.

Madigan has however played in roughly the same number of games overall as Farrell, which includes 2 HC finals. I'll agree they are similarly experienced but as I said before I think both either or would be my pick. I just can't see anyone bar Sexton and Biggar as 1 and 2.

Hook is too in and out of the international scene, Laidlaw isn't a 10, Wilko hasn't played a decent game at international level in about 4/5 years, Hodgson/O'Gara too old, Jackson (R) is too erratic, Priestland is injured, Weir, Jackson (P) are too young/not enough experience.

I think Andy Farrell being on the selection panel will have some influence as to who gets picked, and I'd be happy to see Owen go, I just think having three fairly similar 10's going is a mistake. Truth be told I'd be happy with Sexton, Farrell and Madigan.