Ferris off to Japan!

Didn't see this one coming!

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/japan-bound-ferris-set-to-leave-ulster-1.1324280

I didn't see him going to Japan but I am not surprised to see him leave Ulster/Ireland. He is worth the big bucks when he plays but he plays so rarely I felt something was going to give in terms of what he was actually worth.

ongoing it is apparently highly likely that Ferris will accept a more lucrative offer from Japan.

Not done and dusted yet.

However maybe a year in Japan and then back to Ulster may be a good thing, Lets be honest Japan would be nearly like a rest year, while having enough games to keep in shape and a good pay day as well.

Ferris could do with a year away from the highest level, to let his body recover, pick up a good pay day, and come back in better shape and hopefully less injury prone, if he returns and can give 2 years that would prob be his career over as hes a player that will have to retire young.

If he goes I dont think we will see him back.

To me it is admission he can no longer play at the top flight

Shrewd move on his part. Unfortunately it looks like he will be one of those players whose career will be wrecked by injury. He might as well make more money for a less strenuous playing schedule.

He's knackered so collect the big bucks while he can.

Deleted - talking guff

When Shane Williams can earn 3 times in Japan what he could earn at home AFTER his career (and not at his peak), then it does demonstrate the sort of money being thrown around.

And that was in the second division Griff!!

Not to mention the reduced standard of play, I imagine Ferris could play at 50% the majority of the time.

Fantastic player, he'll be a loss to the NH

They have good surgeons in Japan for Knee, hip, ankle and shoulder injuries/replacements.

It makes perfect sense to me, the IRFU don't want to pay big bucks or even bucks as big as they were spending on him due to him not being reliable (in that he gets injured frequently).

He is more than well aware of this and thus wants to make as much money as he can from what will be a short career in a line of work that is not known for longevity.

Remember that tantrum he threw on Twitter a while back giving out about people who claimed he was injury prone. Looks a bit silly from him in hindsight.

red_stag wrote:Remember that tantrum he threw on Twitter a while back giving out about people who claimed he was injury prone. Looks a bit silly from him in hindsight.

To be fair hes not injury prone just the same injuries repeatedly that arent allowed to heal properly

One outcome of this is that Henderson will be a full time 6 and will not be considered in the 2nd row by Ulster.

Ireland may not be pleased

Then Ireland should make the effort to keep Ferris. We need to replace him and Henderson is the very obvious long term replacement for Ireland and Ulster- he's been doing it seamlessly since the Castres game for a start.

At what point in negotiations breaking down do Ulster get to offer him a contract. It's pretty frustrating to see one of our best players leaving and Ulster not getting the chance to offer him a deal to stay. But with his injury record he's clearly not going to get anything equivalent to the money he's on now from club or country. It's harsh but budgets are too tight to be paying big bucks to guys who don't play.

Given we've stood by him through all these injuries, it would be devastating to see him recover and play elsewhere. And it's all out of our hands, it's still at this point a decision made in Dublin. Frustrating.

geoff998rugby wrote:One outcome of this is that Henderson will be a full time 6 and will not be considered in the 2nd row by Ulster.

Ireland may not be pleased

To be fair Geoff we both know that Ulster will be told where to play him if Dublin truly see him a second row

red_stag wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:One outcome of this is that Henderson will be a full time 6 and will not be considered in the 2nd row by Ulster.

Ireland may not be pleased

To be fair Geoff we both know that Ulster will be told where to play him if Dublin truly see him a second row

This pisses me off no end. They want that, pay him a central contract then. Does anyone still believe this top down Poopie is anything but a hindrance to the provinces without being a help to the national side?

Notch wrote:

red_stag wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:One outcome of this is that Henderson will be a full time 6 and will not be considered in the 2nd row by Ulster.

Ireland may not be pleased

To be fair Geoff we both know that Ulster will be told where to play him if Dublin truly see him a second row

This pisses me off no end. They want that, pay him a central contract then. Does anyone still believe this top down Poopie is anything but a hindrance to the provinces without being a help to the national side?

2006 - Munster win Heineken Cup Final
2008 - Munster win Heineken Cup Final
2009 - Leinster win Heineken Cup Final
2011 - Leinster win Heineken Cup Final
2012 - Leinster win Heineken Cup Final, Ulster are also in the Heineken Cup Final

The provinces aren't exactly hindered by anything that I can see. Even in the league we had Irish champions in 2007, 2009 and 2011 with runners up in 2010 and 2012. Ulster and Leinster both look likely to make the playoffs this season.

Provinces are in no way affected from what I can see.

Most Irish posters claim the biggest thing stopping the national team is the coaching staff.

The idea might pish you off but I dont see it as a problem. Essentially all players in Ireland are registered to the IRFU and they pay the provinces who pay the players. What they say goes. Every province has had to deal with it at one point or another.

It's not a problem- IF the IRFU know what they're doing. If I thought there was the same basic level of competence in the the central IRFU as there is in the provinces I would see it as a good system. But if the people at the top aren't competent, then any system is bad.

To put my case frankly, who is in the better position to make the call of where a players best position is? The provincial coaches who work with them all day, almost every day? Or a faceless bureaucrat in Dublin?

We've had guys in the past like Tom Court and Paddy Wallace show good form in 1 and 12, but to be periodically forced back to 3 and 10 because the IRFU demand thats where they play. We can see what their best position is, where they feel most comfortable, but they have had to play in their weaker positions from time to time because of a line in their old contracts.

Now Henderson has come in and impressed as a blindside flanker whilst showing he's not able to be quite so impressive as a lock. So the coaches put him in at 6 and he does well.

Who benefits if the powers that be intervene to reverse that decision and he doesn't do as well? The player? No, his performances drop. Ulster? No. Ireland? Well, no, not really. It's not as simple as seeing we need a lock. It's a round hole to be filled. Lets try and jam this square peg in. It doesn't do anything for Ireland.

If Henderson keeps going the way he is, with Ferris hypothetically off the scene he could easily displace O'Mahony as first choice 6. But O'Mahony now has the big bucks central contract as a 6 so it's not an issue for them. As far as their concerned, that jersey is now filled for two years or whatever. So we need a lock and to hell with what the players best position is.

I think Henderson probably will end up at lock, but what position he plays should be based on where he's performing best and most comfortable. If it's as a 6 and he never makes the transition to lock, so be it. The IRFU try and control everything from the top down. It's completely ass backwards. We need to grow from the bottom up.

I'm all for Henderson moving to lock if he matures physically and fills out and that organically becomes his best position over time. Some guy in Dublin saying we need to shoehorn players into roles to fill gaps in our team is never going to work. If he's a 6, let him be a 6. If he's a lock, let him be a lock. And as far as the pool of players available to the national team, let the dice fall where they may.

Maybe we should just get rid of central contracts altogether. They're a good idea in theory but a mess in practice.

geoff998rugby wrote:One outcome of this is that Henderson will be a full time 6 and will not be considered in the 2nd row by Ulster.

Ireland may not be pleased

Ireland has put Peter O'Mahoney on a central contract and he is playing 6. Henderson might not be pleased though as there will be a lot more competition in the backrow than for lock in the years to come.

Can't see Henderson getting game time at six as long as POM is uninjured..

Give it a year. Hendy has bags more potential and less red mist

toml wrote:Give it a year. Hendy has bags more potential and less red mist

3 Yellow Cards in 14 games for Ulster says otherwise (and all this year) for Hendy.

(For the record - POM has 2 YCs in 43 games for Munster - none this year).

Can we knock this poor discipline Poopie on the head now about POM please. With 2 penalties so far in this 6Ns, he is no worse than Heislip and way, way better than SOB with 7 penalties.

Well if you had a wee look at the offences rather than the old faceless statistics you would know they were technical infringements rather than anything you could label red mist. Hendy is a cool character

toml wrote:Well if you had a wee look at the offences rather than the old faceless statistics you would know they were technical infringements rather than anything you could label red mist. Hendy is a cool character

.... and getting yellow carded/giving away penalties for technical offenses is somehow better than not getting Yellow Carded or Giving away penalties for some mythical Red Mist.

Sign of an intelligent backrower to be able to appear aggressive but not give away penalties or get yellow cards.

POM is Gerry Thornley's Irish Player of the Tournament and Jeremey Gusketts "Most under rated player of the 6Ns". Neither of them mentioned any Red Mist.

.henderson is too big for the backrow and isn't a patch on o'mahoney nor will he be..

Phillip Matthews always raves about him and that is enough for me...

Pom is going to be an awful long time in a green jersey

Munster being the 3rd Irish province this season and for the foreseeable future starting to take its toll judging by the above two posts.

Really...chickens, eggs, count

DOD wrote:.henderson is too big for the backrow and isn't a patch on o'mahoney nor will he be..

Phillip Matthews always raves about him and that is enough for me...

Pom is going to be an awful long time in a green jersey

bahahaha! DOD, you clearly havnt been watching Henderson much this season. He will surpass POM and maybe very soon if he is chosen as a backrow.

I don't think POM is that great as an English fan. Henderson looks like he may surpass him soon(don't think he's as good yet).

I'd actually start Henry at 7 and put SOB back to 6 or 8.

Sin é wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:One outcome of this is that Henderson will be a full time 6 and will not be considered in the 2nd row by Ulster.

Ireland may not be pleased

Ireland has put Peter O'Mahoney on a central contract and he is playing 6. Henderson might not be pleased though as there will be a lot more competition in the backrow than for lock in the years to come.

Henderson will be delighterd in being first choice for Ulster in a particular position at this stage in his career.

Stag Ireland might ask Ulster to play him at 2nd row in a few games but 90% of the time he will be a 6.
They only dictate for a handful of games a year.

I believe that Henderson will surpass POM. Not a criticism of POM but Henderson has the potential to go all the way.
Nothing to do with Red mist re his yellow cards - some over eagerness at the breakdown - he'll learn.
He has only just turned 21 last month.

In a year or two he may well move to the 2nd row but not this coming year. The one big asset he has for the backrow is genuine pace. Also playing him in the backrow gives us a 3rd line out option

Done some serious digging last night and got good and bad news

Good news is - Ferris has approach no one, no one has approach Ferris.
My source was 90%+ certain on this.
His Ireland future will not be decided until a full medical report is received.
The expected result is him being given a 1 year central contract on the same terms as now.
This talk of him being unhappy with the situation and how he has been treated is total bullsh!t - papers making things up

The bad news is that if he goes he will, almost certaintly, not be offered a central contract straight away - he would need to prove himself for a year first. Given his salary he would be very unlikely to return to Ulster.

Notch wrote:Then Ireland should make the effort to keep Ferris. We need to replace him and Henderson is the very obvious long term replacement for Ireland and Ulster- he's been doing it seamlessly since the Castres game for a start.

At what point in negotiations breaking down do Ulster get to offer him a contract. It's pretty frustrating to see one of our best players leaving and Ulster not getting the chance to offer him a deal to stay. But with his injury record he's clearly not going to get anything equivalent to the money he's on now from club or country. It's harsh but budgets are too tight to be paying big bucks to guys who don't play.

Given we've stood by him through all these injuries, it would be devastating to see him recover and play elsewhere. And it's all out of our hands, it's still at this point a decision made in Dublin. Frustrating.

At no point. Provinces cannot outbid eachother, and they certainly cannot outbid the IRFU when it comes to contracts. Which is why Sexton is gone, why Ferris could be going, and no doubt will be the catalyst for other players leaving in the future. The central contract system is biting us in the hole and we're going to be bollixed completely before something is done to fix it.

Mickado wrote:

Notch wrote:Then Ireland should make the effort to keep Ferris. We need to replace him and Henderson is the very obvious long term replacement for Ireland and Ulster- he's been doing it seamlessly since the Castres game for a start.

At what point in negotiations breaking down do Ulster get to offer him a contract. It's pretty frustrating to see one of our best players leaving and Ulster not getting the chance to offer him a deal to stay. But with his injury record he's clearly not going to get anything equivalent to the money he's on now from club or country. It's harsh but budgets are too tight to be paying big bucks to guys who don't play.

Given we've stood by him through all these injuries, it would be devastating to see him recover and play elsewhere. And it's all out of our hands, it's still at this point a decision made in Dublin. Frustrating.

At no point. Provinces cannot outbid eachother, and they certainly cannot outbid the IRFU when it comes to contracts. Which is why Sexton is gone, why Ferris could be going, and no doubt will be the catalyst for other players leaving in the future. The central contract system is biting us in the hole and we're going to be bollixed completely before something is done to fix it.

I've been thinking for a while, that IRFU would consider 4th autumn internation to boost income? Most said IRFU income is fine and wasn't needed, but with Sexton going and maybe Ferris not getting the deal he wants, will we maybe see the unwanted 4th international introduced?

If Geoff is right and Ferris has to pass a medical to get a one year contract I'd say POC would have to go through the same process to get a central contract again, they have both be out as much as the other over the last few years, and PoC is older?

Personally I thought PoM was given a central contract very quickly, Henderson and Henry could overtake him in the pecking order,
Fully fit squad 6 Ferris 7SOB 8Heaslip, bench could make case for Henry (specialist 7) or Henderson (covers 2nd row) ahead of PoM?

Anyway what central contracts will be up soon, Wallace, BOD, Darcy, POC, ROG did Court have one? DOC,

Does Donnacha Ryan have one? if not when Doc's expires put him on a Munster contract and Donnacha Ryan on central one.

Marshall should be in line for one of those ones, Gilroy gets Trimble's, PJ gets RoG's?

I agree surely when all are fit POM wouldn't be starting????

I can see Henderson going to lock as that is where the opportunities will be

There will be less Central Contracts going forward.
In theory the criteria is a guaranteed starter and, I think, the backup 3 and 10.

Wallace, Trimble, Ferris, and ROG are all up this year - only Ferris (1 year) will be offered a new one.
Court and D'Arcy are both up next year - cant see either being offered a new one.

I would expect Marshall and Jackson to get Central contracts but not Henderson or Gilroy.

Would leave Ulster with Best, Jackson, Marshall and Bowe for 2014-15

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I agree surely when all are fit POM wouldn't be starting????

I can see Henderson going to lock as that is where the opportunities will be

POM getting a Central Contract does not fit the criteria Dublin set themselves

Henderson will, almost certaintly, move to lock - just not next year

I can see a new coach coming in and having

Fully fit squad 6 Ferris 7SOB 8Heaslip, bench could make case for Henry (specialist 7) or Henderson (covers 2nd row) ahead of PoM?

or depending on new coach, and if Ferris is out,

6 SOB 8 Heaslip 7Henry with either Henderson or POM on bench

Which to my mind, means we could see someone on a central contract not in the team, or someone without a central contract starting ahead of him.

This isn't a dig at POM, as hes a good player, but with the Irish backrow having so many options, I don't think hes a nailed on starter or even certain of a bench place, and cannot understand why he was offered a central contact so quickly,
With SOB and Ferris being 6's on central contracts surely offering another 6 a central contract wasn't the best use of it.

Really sad to see ferris go as when he is fit he is one of the best in the buisness. He reminds me of lewis moody the way he plays though and with all these injuries its only a matter of time before he has to retire, so going to japan makes sense, prolonge your career and earn as much money as possible while your body is still working.

geoff998rugby wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I agree surely when all are fit POM wouldn't be starting????

I can see Henderson going to lock as that is where the opportunities will be

POM getting a Central Contract does not fit the criteria Dublin set themselves

Henderson will, almost certaintly, move to lock - just not next year

POM at the moment (and foreseeable furture) is guaranteed to make every match day 23 minimum because of his ability in the lineout and cover all positions in the backrow.

Also, he has captained every team he has ever played for and this Ireland team is in bad need of leadership.

Since he won't be available to Munster for large chunks of the season, its only right that Munster get compensated for him (allowing Munster to keep another backrower on their books to cover for when he is away).

It is not the 23 that is the criteria though it is the 15 - POM is not a guaranteed starter.

Missing large chunks of the season for the Province is not a criteria either.
Nor is being Captain material

Ulster arre likely to lose Gilroy, Henry, Henderson for large chunks of next year - none of them are likely to get Central Contracts

geoff998rugby wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I agree surely when all are fit POM wouldn't be starting????

I can see Henderson going to lock as that is where the opportunities will be

POM getting a Central Contract does not fit the criteria Dublin set themselves

Henderson will, almost certaintly, move to lock - just not next year

The writing is on the wall with regard to Fez. Compare Fez to Jamie Heaslip & Denis Leamy (similar ages).
Heaslip (age 29) - 56 Ireland caps, 3 Test Lions. Leinster 140 caps.
Denis Leamy (age 29 when he retired): Ireland 57 caps. Munster 145 caps.
Fez (age 27) - 36 Ireland caps. 85 caps for Ulster.

Someone worked it out on Munsterfans (based on reported wage) that it cost the IRFU 20K per international game for Fez's last contract.

Whatever about the frequency of his injuries stabilising, its hard to see how they could improve at this stage and the IRFU are recognising that (and why they are now looking to POM as the new first choice 6).

The arguement that POM is seen as the guaranteed starting 6 doesn't fit with the new criteria if Ferris is given a central contract as well.

You cant have 2 guaranteed starting 6's.

geoff998rugby wrote:It is not the 23 that is the criteria though it is the 15 - POM is not a guaranteed starter.

Missing large chunks of the season for the Province is not a criteria either.
Nor is being Captain material

Ulster arre likely to lose Gilroy, Henry, Henderson for large chunks of next year - none of them are likely to get Central Contracts

POM is a guaranteed starter at the moment, though.

Ulster won't lose both Gilroy & Bowe at the same time (one or other will be sent back to their province for gametime if they are not playing).

Henderson is still behind POC, Ryan, DOC, McCarthy (first 3 have central contracts).

Who says being captain material is not a criteria (being captain material makes you a more valuable player).

geoff998rugby wrote:The arguement that POM is seen as the guaranteed starting 6 doesn't fit with the new criteria if Ferris is given a central contract as well.

You cant have 2 guaranteed starting 6's.

More than likely the IRFU are (rightly) looking after Fez. If he has to retire, it would make a huge difference to him compensation wise if he has a contract. Something like he would get what he would be earning if playing up to age 35 or something like that.

Sin e Heaslip is two years older, and is renowned for being indestructable, (less injuries than most players in his position).

I agree with geoff
Missing large chunks of the season for the Province is not a criteria either.

"Since he won't be available to Munster for large chunks of the season, its only right that Munster get compensated for him"

its not likily one of Bowe or Gilroy will be released, just because they come from the same province. The IRFU will only release players if they don't need them, not because a province needs them.

Also Ulster are likily to be missing Ferris and Henry, should Henry not have a central contract on the same principle? Connacht with McCarthy?

I can't work out POM's central contract,
If Ferris has one for 6 heaslip one for 8 and SoB's would then be for 7
and one as back up, surly the IRFU should have waited to see who the back up would be, POM, Henry or Henderson
I think they decided on POM a bit quickly as there is stiff competation for his place.
If leadership is key Henry has captained Ulster numerous times, and is one of the leaders,

I think that it was more likiley that the IRFU saw it as, if that by not awarding it to POM then Munster would lose out on a central contract and hence would mean their funding would be reduced?

I know geoff says Ulster received extra to make up for lack of central contracts, so maybe they wanted to keep spread number of central contracts evenier?

geoff998rugby wrote:Done some serious digging last night and got good and bad news

Good news is - Ferris has approach no one, no one has approach Ferris.
My source was 90%+ certain on this.
His Ireland future will not be decided until a full medical report is received.
The expected result is him being given a 1 year central contract on the same terms as now.
This talk of him being unhappy with the situation and how he has been treated is total bullsh!t - papers making things up
The bad news is that if he goes he will, almost certaintly, not be offered a central contract straight away - he would need to prove himself for a year first. Given his salary he would be very unlikely to return to Ulster.

A cynical man might speculate that this would have been leaked to the papers via Ferris or his representatives as leverage in his negotiations with the IRFU.

Rumour has it he's been lined up as a kicker for the Miami Dolphins too......

Regardless I wish him well, he's been a force of nature for Ulster and Ireland when he's played and I don't think anyone would begrudge him a good payday given the fragile state of his skeletal system and connective tissue.

I actually think news of Ferris' demise have been greatly exaggerated. If he goes to Japan it will be really good for him, as he will be afforded the luxury of being able to manage his game rather than be charging into walls every five minutes and seeing if he's still standing at the end. I could see him becoming a Rush type 8 and playing with his head and able to utilise his running/handling skills a lot more.

It is no coincidence that Heaslip's effectiveness takes a dip when Ferris isn't in the backrow beside him. Ireland simply don't have a player who can free-up Heaslip the way 1F can, but it has now dawned on them that even Ferris can't put in that sacrifice any longer.