Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Rafa has a ridiculously good record on clay. 254 wins and only 19 losses (win/loss ratio of 93.04). I thought it would be interesting to see who he lost to and when

In 2003 Rafa lost to Moya, Gonzalez, Lapentti, Gaudio, Correttja, Coria and Volandri

2004 Mutis, Ferrer and Guadio

2005 Andreev and Guadio

2006 Didn't lose!

2007 Federer

2008 Ferrero

2009 Federer and Soderling

2010 Didn't lose

2011 Djokovic twice

2012 Tiriac oops I mean Verdasco

So seven of Rafa's losses took place when he wasn't really old enough to be out without his mothers permission. If I remove them Rafa now has 234 wins and only 12 losses (win loss ratio of 95.12). I'm tempted to remove the stats up to April 2005 when he lost to Andreev too. He was still only 18 but I don't want to upset anyone... Rafa has only lost one five set match on clay to Soderling. When a player is as dominant as this any loss is an anomaly and it is difficult not to look for reasons for such an unusual occurrence. Why were these few matches different? Untested surface, blisters, mental or physical fatigue or of course exceptional play by an opponent.

Being so good in Sport is unusual but doesn't necessarily get the appreciation that a more unusual win will get. There isn't much of a story line if a player just keeps winning. It isn't "news" although conversely it is big news when a loss occurs. Not many players in any sport are good enough to "own" something in the way that Rafa owns clay. He is therefore playing to keep what he already owns. So he can't win anything. Whereas all of his opponents on clay are playing with nothing to lose. I'm not sure how he can handle such pressure.

It is indeed very remarkable and impressive.
Could you put the total number of clay matches for each year, if it's not too much trouble?
I think the knowledge that he is virtually unbeatable actually reduces the pressure and his opponents go in with the mind-set of not believing they can win ("I've got nothing to lose, but I'm going to lose anyway").
All the great sportsmen had that advantage, once a period of dominance is established.

didn't he have a match winning streak on clay of 81?!?!?

phenomenal effort, just unreal!

Difficult to believe anybody certainly in the Open Era come close to such dominance on any given surface.

Thinking about it on grass would it be a close call in terms % matches won between Sampras and Federer?

Also widening this out slightly who'd have the highest win % on all surfaces? Borg and possibly Connors would be up there with (no surprises here ) Nadal and Federer at a guess.

On grass Federer now out on his own of all players :

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-Grass-Career-List.aspx

But across all surfaces combined, he trails Borg, Nadal, Connors, & Lendl

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-Overall-Career-List.aspx

I'm amazed Connors is so close to Borg, given that one retired at 26 and the other at 40.

Thin margins at the top, we're talking a handful of matches here and there.

Starting with 2002, his yearly stats on clay are as follows:
1–1 11–6 14–3 50–2 26–0 31–1 24–1 24–2 22–0 28–2 23–1 0–0

He has 36 tournament wins out of 55 participations, 254 match wins and 19 defeats.

I wonder if he ever won the first set in any of those 19 defeats?

I don't agree with HE that you need to explain all his defeats after 2005 as aberrations, he's human and his level and that of his opponents invariably changes. Also, some of the wins have been quite tight - especially a couple vs. Federer, one or two vs. Djoko, and even Murray and Isner each pushed him hard once.

I often wonder whether it would have made a difference to the Fedal rivalry had Federer won that final in Rome 2006.

@Barry ... which tournament on Clay in 2002 did you start with?

laverfan wrote:@Barry ... which tournament on Clay in 2002 did you start with?

I must confess, the same as wikipedia!

2012 (Losses - 1)

Madrid - R16 Fernando Verdasco (ESP) 19 L 3-6, 6-3, 5-7

2011 (Losses - 2)

Rome - F Novak Djokovic (SRB) 2 L 4-6, 4-6
Madrid - F Novak Djokovic (SRB) 2 L 5-7, 4-6

2009 (Losses - 2)

RG - R16 Robin Soderling (SWE) 25 L 2-6, 7-6(2), 4-6, 6-7(2)
Madrid - F Roger Federer (SUI) 2 L 4-6, 4-6

2008 (Losses - 1)

Rome - R32 Juan Carlos Ferrero (ESP) 23 L 5-7, 1-6

2007 (Losses - 1)

Hamburg - F Roger Federer (SUI) 1 L 6-2, 2-6, 0-6

2005 (Losses - 2)

Valencia - Q Igor Andreev (RUS) 47 L 5-7, 2-6
Buenos Aires - Q Gaston Gaudio (ARG) 8 L 6-0, 0-6, 1-6

2004 (Losses - 3)

Palermo - R16 Olivier Mutis (FRA) 113 L 3-6, 3-6
Stuttgart - Q David Ferrer (ESP) 47 L 3-6, 7-6(3), 5-7
Bastad - Q Gaston Gaudio (ARG) 11 L 2-6, 3-6
Estoril - Q Irakli Labadze (GEO) 52 L W/O

2003 (Losses - 6)

Umag - S Carlos Moya (ESP) 4 L 4-6, 4-6
Stuttgart - R32 Fernando Gonzalez (CHI) 14 L 2-6, 6-3, 2-6
Bastad - Q Nicolas Lapentti (ECU) 76 L 6-3, 3-6, 6-7(6)
Hamburg - R16 Gaston Gaudio (ARG) 29 L 2-6, 2-6
Barcelona - R32 Alex Corretja (ESP) 17 L 6-3, 2-6, 1-6
Monte Carlo - R16 Guillermo Coria (ARG) 26 L 6-7(3), 2-6

2002 (Losses - 1)

Barcelona - S Albert Portas (ESP) 96 L 2-6, 1-6

I cannot find #19 unless I include the Barcelona 2002 Challenger.

I know at some point in the past, the Futures/Challengers were counted towards a career w/l, just cannot find the reference now.

He's amazing.

Those stats are insane!

I wonder chris Evert's record on clay was like.

She's probably the only one who comes close to Rafa.

emancipator wrote:Those stats are insane!

I wonder chris Evert's record on clay was like.

She's probably the only one who comes close to Rafa.

Should we not look at Borg, Vilas or Lendl?

Yeah it would be interesting although I suspect they will be far behind Rafa.

Evert may be closer.

That 2008 loss to Ferrero was undoubtedly due to those horrendous blisters he had coming into the event from the Barcelona event he won on Sunday a few days earlier. He said "Today when I woke up, I said it was impossible to play," Nadal said. "I spoke to the doctor today and yesterday, and they put special protection on it and cream, but it was still tough.". That was his 2nd loss on clay in 105 matches and we saw what he did a fortnight later at RG.

On the very toughest and demanding of all surfaces his stats are quite unreal. We're unlikely to see these stats happen again in our lifetimes. Lets see what he can add to the stats from next week...

I've split the discussion on Evert to a new topic. This one's for Rafa!

JuliusHMarx wrote:I've split the discussion on Evert to a new topic. This one's for Rafa!

Genius with a Silver Tongue.

cough!

For once I am in agreement HE

Wow, my last post was in really bad English. Sorry I had a dry January, now I have one drink and forget how to form coherent sentences.

hawkeye wrote:cough!

Not sure what you meant, HE? That I am not fit for an Edberg award... yet.

carrieg4 wrote:Wow, my last post was in really bad English. Sorry I had a dry January, now I have one drink and forget how to form coherent sentences.

You just need a bit of practice and you will be back like Nadal.

laverfan wrote:

carrieg4 wrote:Wow, my last post was in really bad English. Sorry I had a dry January, now I have one drink and forget how to form coherent sentences.

You just need a bit of practice and you will be back like Nadal.

Back like Nadal - good.
Knees like Nadal - not so good

laverfan wrote:

hawkeye wrote:cough!

Not sure what you meant, HE? That I am not fit for an Edberg award... yet.

laverfan. If someone coughs and you don't understand why don't try and put meaning behind it and then take the blame (and cry). You will turn my cough into something it wasn't.

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:

hawkeye wrote:cough!

Not sure what you meant, HE? That I am not fit for an Edberg award... yet.

laverfan. If someone coughs and you don't understand why don't try and put meaning behind it and then take the blame (and cry). You will turn my cough into something it wasn't.

I had much rather seek clarification, rather than get accused of going postal.

You could send an e-mail, unless that's going e-postal.

JuliusHMarx wrote:You could send an e-mail, unless that's going e-postal.

:roflmao:

From 2005 onwards would be an interesting stat. That's when he became good. Although I don't think anyone could justify excluding Andreev and starting at a random point in the year.

2005: 50–2
2006: 26–0
2007: 31–1
2008: 24–1
2009: 24–2
2010: 22–0
2011: 28–2
2012: 23–1

Total 228-9 (96.2%)

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-Overall-Career-List.aspx

For Connors to get so high, even above Federer, despite playing so many years, is tremendously impressive.

I do think he might have played more minor tournaments, and that there wasn't a masters series with top players continually facing off. Even so, wow.

Rafa will go first ahead of Borg if he wins his next 2 matches.