Adam Jones ruled out of Autumn Internationals

So our campaign gets a major set-back. Who would you like to see step up?

Aaron Jarvis for me, in an Ospreys front-row (sort of).

James, Hibbard, Jarvis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20069327

Just heard on BBC Wales Today (the local news programme) that Adam Jones has been ruled out of the Autumn Internationals altogether after suffering a knee injury.

From BBC Wales:

Wales will be without key tight-head prop Adam Jones for the autumn international series against Argentina, Samoa, New Zealand and Australia. Jones suffered a recurrence of a knee injury in Ospreys' Heineken Cup defeat away to Leicester. His absence may give Ospreys colleague Aaron Jarvis a chance to make his Wales debut while teenage Scarlets prop Samson Lee has been called up as cover.

Blues youngster Scott Andrews is the other specialist alternative. Bath prop Paul James, however, could move across from loose-head but Wales under-20 international Lee has won a call after just seven regional appearances for the Scarlets.

"Adam has been struggling with his knee for four or five weeks now," said Ospreys forwards coach Jonathan Humphreys before his absence was confirmed. "He's put the team first, he's played through a bit of pain, but on the weekend he re-injured that area. "It's an area in the past that [Wales] haven't had a lot of strength in, but hopefully Aaron will get some game time, some opportunities and push his claim forward."

Meanwhile, Ospreys back-rower Ryan Jones could miss the Ospreys' Pro12 match against Connacht with a dead leg, although there is no suggestion the knock will affect his Wales involvement.

Wales caretaker coach Rob Howley has named a 35-man Wales squad for the series that starts against the Pumas, before Wales face Samoa, New Zealand and Australia.

Wales are without first-choice blind-side Lydiate for the autumn series after the Newport Gwent Dragons star suffered an ankle fracture.

As part of their preparations for the autumn series, the Wales squad will return to Spala in Poland for a traing camp on 29 October-5 November, although they will be without those players contracted to French and English clubs.

The hazards of having so few professional players in each position...

Lost Jones and the backup is a risk.

I hope it's not Paul James or Scott Andrews selected at TH, especially against Argentina. I would prefer a specialist, one who is of decent standard (which rules out Andrews). Steele just mentioned he was a contender, he must have just said it out of guilt as he previoulsy said an hour ago Lee and Jarvis were in contention...

Not great news but Adam hadn't recovered fully the last few weeks. His performances were unusually poor.

This could be a great opportunity for another to step up.

Jesus 4 internationals!

Thats flogging your players IMO. Could be a long autumn for Wales but you never know. As maestag said it could be just the right opportunity for someone

Don't worry Ulstermen Wales will live, it's Ireland i fear will have a long Autumn no Kiwis or South Africans for the International squad to help strengthen the pack.

viewtothegym wrote:Don't worry Ulstermen Wales will live, it's Ireland i fear will have a long Autumn no Kiwis or South Africans for the International squad to help strengthen the pack.

Que?!

Bizarre

"Adam has been struggling with his knee for four or five weeks now," said Ospreys forwards coach Jonathan Humphreys before his absence was confirmed. "He's put the team first, he's played through a bit of pain, but on the weekend he re-injured that area. "It's an area in the past that [Wales] haven't had a lot of strength in, but hopefully Aaron will get some game time, some opportunities and push his claim forward."

I know hindsight & all that but it doesn't strike me as the best decision making by the Regional Coaches if they allowed him to play. After all most players will offer themselves up for a game.
National coaches sometimes take a lot of flack for pushing players into games & injuries getting worse. This sounds a similar story & one that hopefully won't shorten his career.

thebluesmancometh wrote:The hazards of having so few professional players in each position...

Each region has at least three tighthead props in their squad, plus there is one playing in the English premiership. Quantity is not an issue, it is having a player to fill the gap left by the best in the business is the problem. The only teams in the world that can name two THs as good as each other are France and SA.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lost Jones and the backup is a risk.

Why are they a risk?

Jarvis has been playing better than Jones all season at the Ospreys? Sampson Lee deserves a call up he looks a great prospect, James has switched across from Loosehead and done a good job.

Haven't seen too much of Andrews though.

Your a Blues man, what do you think of him?

By the way Scott Andrews is a tighthead not a loosehead.

Topics merged.

Cheers bil

MM

So your saying all regions have 3 international quality TH's playing week in week out?? Whats the problem then?

Jones is a huge loss because Scarlets have an old fella and kid sharing the role, Dragons and the blues do not have decent TH's at all (despite blues trying to buy one in) and the only reason the O's have back up is because they pilaged Baths academy.

It is quite clear that only 4 prof teams in wales cannot support a competitive national team adequately, if 1 or 2 are struggling in a position Wales struggles in a position. Now don't get me wrong I know Jones is world class, but he got there by being the best in wales and proving himself over the years against the best, international rugby exposure made him world class.

So in the Autumn you honestly beleive that Jarvis, Lee, or Andrews (who has barely played this season because of injury and IMHO will be a solid TH in about 3/4 seasons) arent a risk when up against the hard nosed Argys or the Kiwis? Infact I'd say the Aus would fancy having a pop at them too.

PS the one playing in the prem and one in france will not be available for the last game.

thebluesmancometh wrote:MM

So your saying all regions have 3 international quality TH's playing week in week out?? Whats the problem then?

Jones is a huge loss because Scarlets have an old fella and kid sharing the role, Dragons and the blues do not have decent TH's at all (despite blues trying to buy one in) and the only reason the O's have back up is because they pilaged Baths academy.

It is quite clear that only 4 prof teams in wales cannot support a competitive national team adequately, if 1 or 2 are struggling in a position Wales struggles in a position. Now don't get me wrong I know Jones is world class, but he got there by being the best in wales and proving himself over the years against the best, international rugby exposure made him world class.

So in the Autumn you honestly beleive that Jarvis, Lee, or Andrews (who has barely played this season because of injury and IMHO will be a solid TH in about 3/4 seasons) arent a risk when up against the hard nosed Argys or the Kiwis? Infact I'd say the Aus would fancy having a pop at them too.

PS the one playing in the prem and one in france will not be available for the last game.

Nobody pillaged Bath's academy. He couldn't get a look-in with Bath so moved West when he got the opportunity, and the Ospreys have built him up to be considered international standard now. Yeah, he's my starter. The closest we got to Adam Jones. As for the final game, well that is bad news. Guess that leaves us with Bevington who I don't consider good enough. No doubt Howley will select him from game number one then.

Morg

Bath produced him, he only came to the O's a few months ago didn't he???
Don't get me wrong he has done well and prob be my choice too, but doesn't mean he's up to the job yet, he's the best of a poor bunch!!

If the Argies come up against...

Bevington Hibbard Jarvis

They'll be licking their lips!!! The Argie scrum was very good this year, and infact they were very competitive for 60 mins against all, they will want to eat some young forwards up for breakfast!!!

Jarvis came to the ospreys over a year ago.

maestegmafia wrote:This could be a great opportunity for another to step up.

Well I suppose PJ will come back over the Severn Bridge from Bath to cover? There's also talk of Samson Lee from the Scarlets coming into the mix. It's a big loss for the O's and Wales, but who knows, maybe he'll be fine come Lions pickings...

I also agree with whoever said it earlier, four internationals is a bit much for the Autumn. I wish they'd drop the December Oz match at least. That's right before the Heino matches the week after.

He's been there over 2 years as far as I know. Argentina are without Roncero now. James, Hibbard, Jarvis always did quite well for the Spreys, probably our best option.

thebluesmancometh wrote:MM

So your saying all regions have 3 international quality TH's playing week in week out?? Whats the problem then?.

No I did not say that whatsoever did I..! I said each region has three tightheads in their squad. There is a choice player, a reserve and an apprentice younger player in general.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Jones is a huge loss because Scarlets have an old fella and kid sharing the role, Dragons and the blues do not have decent TH's at all (despite blues trying to buy one in) and the only reason the O's have back up is because they pilaged Baths academy..

Jones is a huge loss, he would be a huge loss to any international side, what I also said was that we are not unique in not having two world Class option, we are just like everyone else. At least we have welsh players being identified and progressed by the WRU and regions to bolster our areas where we lack depth.

thebluesmancometh wrote:It is quite clear that only 4 prof teams in wales cannot support a competitive national team adequately, if 1 or 2 are struggling in a position Wales struggles in a position. Now don't get me wrong Iy know Jones is world class, but he got there by being the best in wales and proving himself over the years against the best, international rugby exposure made him world class..

Absolute rubbish. For one, probably the sole reason we can't afford more than four regions. Secondly there are not enough players. The quality of welsh rugby would be pathetic. Or, as in England and France we would have 12 clubs, of those there would be two or three good ones the rest average at best, all full of foreign players.

You seriously have to think about your non regional angst, you constantly bring it up and I have never seen you post anything that shows reason and justification.

thebluesmancometh wrote:So in the Autumn you honestly beleive that Jarvis, Lee, or Andrews (who has barely played this season because of injury and IMHO will be a solid TH in about 3/4 seasons) arent a risk when up against the hard nosed Argys or the Kiwis? Infact I'd say the Aus would fancy having a pop at them too..

Very happy with Jarvis and Lee. As you said Andrews injury has kept him out. Jarvis has been fantastic this season, he has been more than adequate cover for Jones for the Ospreys, who as you said on another thread have a very good front five.

thebluesmancometh wrote:PS the one playing in the prem and one in france will not be available for the last game.

Possibly, though the WRU is working hard to get releases, so cyrrently it is under discussion not final...

Jarvis joined O's in the off season according to someone I know up west.

Roncero isnt with Argy now, but he still left a very hard nosed scrum, efficient lineout and honest work in the grunt behind him.

I agree James Hibbard Jarvis is prob our best bet, but with AWJ and Evans behind we will have an O's linoute a sub par international scrum and a tight 5 who have been beaten together a lot this season

Argentina are buoyed by their 4N performances, and they were very good IMO, they will now target a weakened Wales set peice (ask the Blues how that feels) and fancy their chances!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Jarvis joined O's in the off season according to someone I know up west.

Ok here

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/rugby/fixtures/squad_seniors.php?player=86522&includeref=dynamic

This is a list of all the games he played for the Ospreys last year. There is a Biog for him too.

MM

I'll take your comments one by one. Firstly we are talking international back up to Jones, so when you say we have depth because each region has 3 TH's per squad you are clearly talking in the int context, which is quite clearly not true then is it!!

Regarding your 2/3 good clubs in England and France...

Leicester, Northampton, Quins, Sarries are all very good teams.
Gloucester, Exeter, and Bath are solid enough.

So over half of the English league is above average, and lets take each squad for int / saxon players... (i'll let you work that out)

France...

Toulon, Toulouse, CA, are all top notch
Perp, Montpe, Castre, Biaritz are all good teams

Again half of the league is strong.

ALL ABOVE TEAMS ARE FAR SUPERIOR TO WELSH REGIONAL LEVEL IMHO!!!

Jarvis and Lee are untested at the highest level, infact both players were part of scrum who were murdered last weekend (and last night in Lees case) If Jarvis and co couldn't cope with Leicesters scrum what makes you think the same pack will cope with Argentinas???!!!

And your right but if the WRU are having to spend time and money trying to get these players releaesed it is one more headache we don't need, one more issue to take our eye off the ball.


I understand my tone regarding the regions has been poor of late, but so have the regions on and off the field, I fear we are losing the club game in wales and can foresee a future where we have a welsh representitive club competing in the 2nd tier of English rugby ala our football teams!!

MM

Ok he's been there a season, my bad apologies. Still hardly states that the club produced him in the argument though, they merely gave him an opportunity to play.

Absolutely devastating for Wales to lose their best player. It's a real drop down in quality whoever is picked. Depth is often an issue, but especially at tighthead.

Every game will be that much tougher now. Shame for Jones too.

Jones out is a huge loss and we have this fear everytime he takes a knock, its the one position that we really haven't developed a genuine alternative to Adam.

In the past when he's been out we have tended to switch James across so hopefulyl this series either Jarvis or Lee (not Andrews plaese) will get at a run out.

Look BMC

I like many others read your posts as they are so often in contrast to the majority opinion but your opinions so often seem based on little more than personal opinion. Not reason, experience or researched facts.

We are all welcome to post our thoughts, as I said particularly yours as it so frequently differs to others, adding and starting debate.

Please don't feel like I am having a personal dig at you.

But with the reply above and a number of others I have read, I would say you rather proved your lack of interest in the subjects briefed rather than extolled areas we were lacking reflected experience on.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Jarvis joined O's in the off season according to someone I know up west.

Roncero isnt with Argy now, but he still left a very hard nosed scrum, efficient lineout and honest work in the grunt behind him.

I agree James Hibbard Jarvis is prob our best bet, but with AWJ and Evans behind we will have an O's linoute a sub par international scrum and a tight 5 who have been beaten together a lot this season

Argentina are buoyed by their 4N performances, and they were very good IMO, they will now target a weakened Wales set peice (ask the Blues how that feels) and fancy their chances!!!

This is why I'd partner Charteris with AWJ, with Evans on the bench. Can't leave out Ian, he's our toughest nut in the engine room IMO but like Bradley will give away too many penalties.

Arg can fancy their chances all they want. They'll have to do a lot more than that to win.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Jones out is a huge loss and we have this fear everytime he takes a knock, its the one position that we really haven't developed a genuine alternative to Adam.

In the past when he's been out we have tended to switch James across so hopefulyl this series either Jarvis or Lee (not Andrews plaese) will get at a run out.

World Class Tightheads are in short supply throughout the game. We are not an exception.

England without Cole, Ireland without Ross et etc etc are just as culpable as Wales.

The bonus is, as we found last time Jones was injured, that this gives great opportunity to work on depth for now and the future.

Aaron Jarvis has been superb this season. He will never be as good as Adam at his best, but he has been better than Adam with an injury.

I hope, as has happened before, that Adam remains with the Welsh squad through his injury, so he can assist with the coaching and techniques of our props.

He is invaluable to Wales in more ways than one.

Morgannwg wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Jarvis joined O's in the off season according to someone I know up west.

Roncero isnt with Argy now, but he still left a very hard nosed scrum, efficient lineout and honest work in the grunt behind him.

I agree James Hibbard Jarvis is prob our best bet, but with AWJ and Evans behind we will have an O's linoute a sub par international scrum and a tight 5 who have been beaten together a lot this season

Argentina are buoyed by their 4N performances, and they were very good IMO, they will now target a weakened Wales set peice (ask the Blues how that feels) and fancy their chances!!!

This is why I'd partner Charteris with AWJ, with Evans on the bench. Can't leave out Ian, he's our toughest nut in the engine room IMO but like Bradley will give away too many penalties.

Arg can fancy their chances all they want. They'll have to do a lot more than that to win.

The locks is a tough call, lucky to have four good players though, we had too long a period with only one maybe two.

Horses for courses, good point though.

Charteris showed great ball carrying as well as line out in the top14 this season.

I'd say we got 3. Davies has been playing a bit powder puff this season. Looked like he was afraid of Bakkies Botha too, and looked small stood next to him.

Morg I'd tend to agree with you, Evans is one step from clotheslining a 9 at all times he is rather dull. And Davies can lose the plot too.

By fancy their chances it's like smelling blood in the water, everyone fancies their chances against NZ, but rarely smell blood in the water.

With wales club form and recent injury list I think Argy will up their game, and if they can compete for 80 instead of the 60 they managed in the 4N I give us a 50/50 shot at the win.

Like always it'll be down to our tight 5 giving a platform, I just hope we don't bring our club form to the int stage.

MM

You can be as condascending as you like mate, but the fact is you are offering no solutions to our problems, you are one of many who like to stay in their safe little bubble of the crowd, never give an opinion against the tide and tear down progressive thinkers. You base your arguments on old rehashed stuff that has been adressed but not considered (again and again)

As Ive said a hundred times, I am not all for a prem return, or all against regional rugby, I go by what I see and envision of the way things have gona and are going.

Like Ive said the prem is the key to a competitive club game in wales in some form, but not as it is now.

Please add something more usefull to a discussion than 'your deluded' or 'it wont work'

Bmc

I did not say I thought you were deluded. Watch what you write, no need to tell porkies.

As I said your against the grain posts are welcome food for thought, great for debate. Though researching them with more depth would improve your case in point no end.

Is Craig Mitchell fit?

Why wasn't he called up, as he would be able to play against all but Aus, and I rate him a lot more than the other 3 THP options.

Again you need to contribute a little more than 'you're wrong' type comments.

All my POV are exactly that, I havn't the time to research every little fact about everything, I get the odd thing wrong, as does everyone.

wales

Isn't Mitchell still injured? He's not playing V Bath today I think because of it.

Against NZ it has to be Paul James with Jenkins at loosehead.

I'd try Jarvis out against Samoa, i'm not sure on Argentina for obvious reasons.

Aus will depend on form.

Jarvis has been alright for the Ospreys, nothing special though. He has been pretty damn poor in some games this season.

go

The same could be said about Bevington though, shows some great qualities against poor opposition and looks lacking against the better teams. Mind you you could apply that to Beck, S. Williams, Fussel, Dirkson and a host more welsh players (or should that be welsh qualified?)

wales606 wrote:Is Craig Mitchell fit?

Why wasn't he called up, as he would be able to play against all but Aus, and I rate him a lot more than the other 3 THP options.

Mitchell injured his elbow in September unfortunately

Injured until the new year at least I believe...?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19630417

thebluesmancometh wrote:go

The same could be said about Bevington though, shows some great qualities against poor opposition and looks lacking against the better teams. Mind you you could apply that to Beck, S. Williams, Fussel, Dirkson and a host more welsh players (or should that be welsh qualified?)

I thought Bevington and Jarvis did very well against Munster and Tigers, even Treviso who are not week at scrummaging.

Their lack of experience told against Treviso, and although I disagreed with why he was pinged so often and carded V tigers he still proved the scrums archillies heel, Jones came on and solidified then Bev came back on for it to fall to peices again!!!

Bevington looks good around the park against big packs who lack mobility!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Their lack of experience told against Treviso, and although I disagreed with why he was pinged so often and carded V tigers he still proved the scrums archillies heel, Jones came on and solidified then Bev came back on for it to fall to peices again!!!

Bevington looks good around the park against big packs who lack mobility!

It was Adam Jones who was far more at fault than Bevington. He looked way short of fitness and was behaving like an idiot, conceding unnecessary penalties.

Bevington was pinged 5 times and given a yellow for persistant offending at the scrum, how does that make Adam Jones act naughty?

Also if it was Jones then when Jones came on nothing wouldve changed, I may be wrong but I think the pen count was 2 - 0 to the Ospreys in the sin binning period at the scrum!

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:Is Craig Mitchell fit?

Why wasn't he called up, as he would be able to play against all but Aus, and I rate him a lot more than the other 3 THP options.

Mitchell injured his elbow in September unfortunately

Damn, he has been almost continuously injured for 2 years now :/

Not really wales606, he's been playing very well for Exeter but it just seems everytime an international window nears he...

mmm