Some things are just too obvious!!!

by Strawberry Jam Mon 13 Aug 2012, 9:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Olympics shot put: Nadzeya Ostapchuk stripped of gold medal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19242736
Somethings were just too obvious! Was to me - as I'm sure it was to the many millions more around the world Some things are just too obvious!!! - Page 5 57983

Some things are just too obvious!!! - Page 5 57983

She could've at least made an effort on the day to look her best and make it appear less obvious.

You got to laugh at Brett Morse's comments Very Happy

And the fact that he had to apologise - only for us all to find that he was bang on! [ Though he might've been more diplomatic Wink

].

Finally, sad that Valerie Adams had to win her Gold like that - but at least Ostapchuk got caught, and the right person gets to be called the Olympic champion Some things are just too obvious!!! - Page 5 3610695981

Some things are just too obvious!!! - Page 5 3610695981

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:36 pm

Well, since people on both sides of the argumnent are currently making up figures with little or no proof (EnglishOsprey and Azania, if either of you have proof to your figures, back it up, otherwise leave it as the unsubstantiated opinion it almost certainly is) and we're delving dangeruosly close to a race argument, hows about we get back on topic?

Yesterday was the deadline for Nadzeya Ostapchuk to appeal her disqualification. There's no word yet as to whether she submitted one.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:38 pm

azania wrote:You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?

Az, pull your head in. Throwing out unsubstantiate racism allegations is a no no.

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:42 pm

azania wrote:You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?

Counter claims of racism makes you lose the argument Azania.

The comment you made about Jamaican based sprinters and USA based sprinters is a totally biased, absurd, uneducated and unproveable.

I've also noticed how you've avoided the small matter of Yohan Blake and two other Jamaican's suspensions. It kind of disproves your argument about Jamaican sprinting being 100% clean.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:42 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Well, since people on both sides of the argumnent are currently making up figures with little or no proof (EnglishOsprey and Azania, if either of you have proof to your figures, back it up, otherwise leave it as the unsubstantiated opinion it almost certainly is) and we're delving dangeruosly close to a race argument, hows about we get back on topic?

Yesterday was the deadline for Nadzeya Ostapchuk to appeal her disqualification. There's no word yet as to whether she submitted one.

I totally agree that my figures are made up. I said that a while back. I gave my source also. It was the same source that Conte got his 70% figure from.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:43 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
azania wrote:You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?

Az, pull your head in. Throwing out unsubstantiate racism allegations is a no no.

That was in reference to his claim that I disliked white people which I find particularly offensive.

I have no problem sticking to the point of the OP and hope others do likewise.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:47 pm

azania wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
azania wrote:You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?

Az, pull your head in. Throwing out unsubstantiate racism allegations is a no no.

That was in reference to his claim that I disliked white people which I find particularly offensive.

I have no problem sticking to the point of the OP and hope others do likewise.

Good. I find people who react to someone else in kind just as annoying as those who start it.

Two wrongs and all that.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:49 pm

Super D Boon wrote:
azania wrote:You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?

Counter claims of racism makes you lose the argument Azania.

The comment you made about Jamaican based sprinters and USA based sprinters is a totally biased, absurd, uneducated and unproveable.

I've also noticed how you've avoided the small matter of Yohan Blake and two other Jamaican's suspensions. It kind of disproves your argument about Jamaican sprinting being 100% clean.

I doubt I am losing any argument. Notice that those who are throwing remarkable accusations at other posters are also those throwing unsubstantiated claims about the finalists. But glad you saw the initial claim of racism aimed at me hence my silly response.

As for blake, let me put it this way. The only other athlete outside the Jamaicans who I can believe to be 100% clean in the final was Gatlin. He has been caught numerous times before and is probably the most tested athlete out there. Blake knows there are suspiscions because of the silly mistake he made.

Also would you refer to Alan Baxter as a druggie because of the silly mistake he made? As for accusations of bias in JA drug authorities, remember they banned Mullins for life (US based) after finding PEDs in his system. He is a training partner of Gay. No suspiscions surrounding Gay though even though he has practically been surgically rebuilt and has new hips almost. How can he be the US record holder with such injuries? PEDs?

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:49 pm

Sorry but I always react. Leopard and all that.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:52 pm

In summary.

All we have are that the JA runners are dominating so they must be on something. Their bodies are different and err umm they must be on juice. Conte says so. Bolt knows some geezer who knows some geezer who dabbles in PEDs.

What a bunch of muppets.

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 1:55 pm

I wasn't suggesting you were racist azania. I've been reliably informed (perhaps by you, amongst others) that black people cannot be racist against white people.

So, you're free to hate away champ.

Jamaica had to ban Mullings for life, it was his second steriod offence. If they hadn't WADA would have had to do it themselves. This doesn't show the Jamaicans are tough on PEDs.

Gatlin 100% clean? You're a funny guy.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 2:01 pm

Cut out the race baiting son. I have never said any of those things. Your level of understanding of the written word is shockingly bad.

And where did Mullings train?

Yep, at the Olympics, outside all the home trained JA sprinters, only Gatin I am certain was clean. That is not to say he isn't a cheat. All semi finalists outside of Gatlin and the JA (possibly Chambers) were juicing. Gemeli, all Americans and Euros. How do I know? From the same source Conte used. From the same source you use to claim the JA sprinters are dirty.

They are clean bro. Enjoy them.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 04 Sep 2012, 2:11 pm

djlovesyou wrote:I wasn't suggesting you were racist azania. I've been reliably informed (perhaps by you, amongst others) that black people cannot be racist against white people.

So, you're free to hate away champ.

Jamaica had to ban Mullings for life, it was his second steriod offence. If they hadn't WADA would have had to do it themselves. This doesn't show the Jamaicans are tough on PEDs.

Gatlin 100% clean? You're a funny guy.

My "pull your head in" comment to Az earlier applies to you to DJ.

Of late there's several people on this thread behaving like ****holes and I'm getting more than a little tired of it.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 04 Sep 2012, 2:21 pm

For what it's worth (now that I've yelled at all sides of the argument Wink

) I don't believe that any nation is 100% clean. Human nature dictates that if nothing else the guys who're not quite quick enough to get into their respective national squads for the major championships are going to be sorely tempted to cheat.

That said, I'm not prepared to write off a whole sport without more evidence than is currently on offer - as I said a week or 2 back I don't necessarily trust the likes of Conte to be completely honest, nor do they necessarily have access to as much inside information as they claim.

I do believe that the testers are behind the cheats in terms of coming up with tests - if nothing else a doping method has to be identified then a test developed. But I don't believe they're 8 years behind the cheats. Given that samples are being retained for 8 years I expect we'll know for sure at some point anyway. Even if the testers don't catch up, someone'll talk a la Tyler Hamilton eventually if there is something going on.

So in the meantime I'm happy to enjoy watching on the basis of innocent until proven guilty.

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 3:33 pm

azania wrote:
Super D Boon wrote:
azania wrote:You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?

Counter claims of racism makes you lose the argument Azania.

The comment you made about Jamaican based sprinters and USA based sprinters is a totally biased, absurd, uneducated and unproveable.

I've also noticed how you've avoided the small matter of Yohan Blake and two other Jamaican's suspensions. It kind of disproves your argument about Jamaican sprinting being 100% clean.

I doubt I am losing any argument. Notice that those who are throwing remarkable accusations at other posters are also those throwing unsubstantiated claims about the finalists. But glad you saw the initial claim of racism aimed at me hence my silly response.

As for blake, let me put it this way. The only other athlete outside the Jamaicans who I can believe to be 100% clean in the final was Gatlin. He has been caught numerous times before and is probably the most tested athlete out there. Blake knows there are suspiscions because of the silly mistake he made.

Also would you refer to Alan Baxter as a druggie because of the silly mistake he made? As for accusations of bias in JA drug authorities, remember they banned Mullins for life (US based) after finding PEDs in his system. He is a training partner of Gay. No suspiscions surrounding Gay though even though he has practically been surgically rebuilt and has new hips almost. How can he be the US record holder with such injuries? PEDs?

Ha ha

That's your problem. You never "lose" any arguments because you must always have the last word even if it's to come back with backing up nonsensical theories with further nonsense.

Gay, I actually agree with you on him. How many injuries?? Then he runs 9.69! I think he's been PEDded up to the eyeballs as the USAs answer to Usain Bolt. I think Blake is also dirty.

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 3:35 pm

Retaining the samples for 8 years or a million years is just one of those soundbites that anti-doping agencies use to scare people (and as a PR exercise) and the people who believe that the majority of sprinters are clean use to make themselves believe it's actually going to scare people into not doping.

When they get tested, they have nothing in their system. When they have something that could be detectable in their system, they're not available for testing. It's as simple as that. In a thousand years time, those tests they took with nothing in their system will still show that they have nothing in their system, it doesn't matter about the testing technology.

As for DJK who stated earlier that I was 'trying to insinuate' that the IAAF were corrupt when it came to anti-doping. It wasn't an insinuation, it was a straight up comment. The IAAF are corrupt. Certain people are protected by them and will always be protected by them, that's why you only see big scandals when law enforcement and governments get involved in an investigation, despite the sport being dirty to the core.

These discussions come about when you get athletics people discussing with non-athletics people.

by djkbrown2001 Tue 04 Sep 2012, 4:07 pm

"Where were they between 1976 and 2008 when jamaica didn't win a single olympic medal? What do you think is the essential difference between those oh so empty 30 years and the sudden success of now?"

Personal attack removed - KRD

Between 1976 and 2008 Jamaica won the following medals and this is off the top of my head:

Ottey won numerous bronze about 8 o 9r behind the East Germans and the Americans between 1980 and 2000.

Juliet Cutburth won double olympic silver at barcelona 1992.
Grace Jackson Small won medal silver i think at seoul 1988.

James Beckford won silver in long jump 1996. Deon hemmings Gold at 400m hurdles in 1996.

VCB won 2 gold and 1 bronze at athens 2004.

Tanya Lawrence won Silver (Gold* at Sydney 200). We know who come first and 2nd in that race

Plus Sandi Richards and numerous other 400m runners and 4x400m, 4x 100 relay during these period (all win silver comming behind the americans in that period.

You have just embarrassed yourself.
Typical you making statements without any facts. A simple google search would have shown that.

English. apologise for your ignorance and lack of facts before you speak nonsense, you have just embarassed yourself.

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 4:11 pm

Ottey also failed a drug test, but was let off on a technicality by the IAAF for being too big a name.

A few medals, mostly minor, over a period of 30 years is hardly indicative of the absolutely domination they enjoy now.

Absolute domination in sprinting has only ever meant (and will continue to mean) one thing. The length of the domination depends only on how long the IAAF can provide protection.

You're getting a tad abusive DJK. Be careful.

by djkbrown2001 Tue 04 Sep 2012, 4:24 pm

English I am still awaiting for your apology for the following ignorant quote:

Please admit that you are wrong.

"Where were they between 1976 and 2008 when jamaica didn't win a single olympic medal? What do you think is the essential difference between those oh so empty 30 years and the sudden success of now?"

Jamaica at the olympics: Between 1976 and 2008. The period you refer to:

1976: Gold and Silver in the 200m and 100m Male.

1980: 2 bronze in athletics and 1 in Cyling

1984: 2 bronze at 1 silver

1988: 200 Silver

1992: 3 Silver and 1 Bronze

1996: 1 Gold , 2 Bronze and 1 Silver

2000: 5 Silver and 3 Bronze

2004: 2 Gold , 2 Bronze and 1 Silver.

Around the year 2000 when testing began to be more stringent Jamaican medal count and quality began to increase. Coincidence?

So English during that time you refer to Jamaica Won 25 medals.

personal attack removed

Please respond. I wont hold my breath.

Added to the point I outlined abouve you can add this as well:

K. Hunger for success, a way of escaping poverty, There are no safety net in Jamaica to catch the lazy. Unlike Britain where a reward for failure is a council flat, £120.00 per week on the dole. Where is the motivation?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 04 Sep 2012, 4:27 pm

DJK, seeing as you're ignoring your PM's

You make some valid points, which then get ruined when you resort to petty childish name-calling. See you in 24 hours.

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 4:56 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
DJK, seeing as you're ignoring your PM's

You make some valid points, which then get ruined when you resort to petty childish name-calling. See you in 24 hours.

Anyway, I don't think people should get so wound up about the Jamaicans. I think as Dj and English point out it's a lot about big names and not especially focussed on any nationality even though the Jamaican testing system is still pretty inept.

I think Carl Lewis has one hell of a brass neck to refer himself as the "clean guy" against Ben Johnson in Seoul 1988. Lewis should never have been there but his stimulant use was covered up three times by the US authorities. They wanted to make Johnson the scape goat.

When I heard that story about the oh so "clean" Carl Lewis I think I lost my faith in athletics being anything other than stinking dirty. He was supposed to be the good guy but ended up as bad as the others. Now I can't help but think the top level guys and girls must be on something. I can only hope one or two of them are ACTUALLY CLEAN. I doubt it though.

by Babario Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:05 pm

djlovesyou wrote:Ottey also failed a drug test, but was let off on a technicality by the IAAF for being too big a name.

A few medals, mostly minor, over a period of 30 years is hardly indicative of the absolutely domination they enjoy now.

You're getting a tad abusive DJK. Be careful.

I can definitely understand the suspicions but there's quite a big difference beetwen this statement :

The boys and girls championships that you love so much? Where were they between 1976 and 2008 when jamaica didn't win a single olympic medal?

and the reality which is that Jamaica won 33 medals (31, if you meant after 1976) in athletics alone. I wouldn't say that's it is a "few medal", especially for such a small country.
And seriously, can one make such an obviously wrong claim and then calling people out ?

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:17 pm

Wasn't me, so I don't care.

I'm guessing he meant no male 100m medals, but I have no idea.

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:26 pm

On a different point altogether.

I think Carl Lewis should be stripped of his two golds and one silver gained from the Seoul Olympics in 1988.

Who's with me?

by english_osprey Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:28 pm

djk my good friend

as we were discussing the utter domination of jamaican sprinting and mens sprinting in particular I was of course referring to the mens 100m and 200m in which jamaica did not achieve a medal for 30+ years but recently contrived a clean sweep in the MENS 200m

apologies if that wasn't clear

top class ranting by the way

The women? Lots of those you mentioned peded right up of course. Let's get to them later though.

see you in 24hrs Very Happy

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:32 pm

I don't really care about stripping people of medals after so much time to be honest, but I'm a sceptic of any member of the Santa Monica Braces club, so I think the stimulants were probably the least of Carl's doping indiscretions.

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:50 pm

djlovesyou wrote:I don't really care about stripping people of medals after so much time to be honest, but I'm a sceptic of any member of the Santa Monica Braces club, so I think the stimulants were probably the least of Carl's doping indiscretions.

Pretty much all the Santa Monica club doped up during that time and probably still do. If they can strip Lance Armstrong of titles he won over ten years ago I see no reason why Lewis shouldn't be stripped of titles he won 24 years ago. It would send a message of "dope now and pay later".

They should also strip the Americans of the 4x100m men's relay gold in Sydney and reopen the case against the Amercan 4x400m relay women's in Sydney and strip all of them of their golds. Both teams profitted from cheats.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:51 pm

Super D Boon wrote:
azania wrote:
Super D Boon wrote:
azania wrote:You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?

Counter claims of racism makes you lose the argument Azania.

The comment you made about Jamaican based sprinters and USA based sprinters is a totally biased, absurd, uneducated and unproveable.

I've also noticed how you've avoided the small matter of Yohan Blake and two other Jamaican's suspensions. It kind of disproves your argument about Jamaican sprinting being 100% clean.

I doubt I am losing any argument. Notice that those who are throwing remarkable accusations at other posters are also those throwing unsubstantiated claims about the finalists. But glad you saw the initial claim of racism aimed at me hence my silly response.

As for blake, let me put it this way. The only other athlete outside the Jamaicans who I can believe to be 100% clean in the final was Gatlin. He has been caught numerous times before and is probably the most tested athlete out there. Blake knows there are suspiscions because of the silly mistake he made.

Also would you refer to Alan Baxter as a druggie because of the silly mistake he made? As for accusations of bias in JA drug authorities, remember they banned Mullins for life (US based) after finding PEDs in his system. He is a training partner of Gay. No suspiscions surrounding Gay though even though he has practically been surgically rebuilt and has new hips almost. How can he be the US record holder with such injuries? PEDs?

Ha ha That's your problem. You never "lose" any arguments because you must always have the last word even if it's to come back with backing up nonsensical theories with further nonsense.

Gay, I actually agree with you on him. How many injuries?? Then he runs 9.69! I think he's been PEDded up to the eyeballs as the USAs answer to Usain Bolt. I think Blake is also dirty.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:56 pm

djlovesyou wrote:Retaining the samples for 8 years or a million years is just one of those soundbites that anti-doping agencies use to scare people (and as a PR exercise) and the people who believe that the majority of sprinters are clean use to make themselves believe it's actually going to scare people into not doping.

When they get tested, they have nothing in their system. When they have something that could be detectable in their system, they're not available for testing. It's as simple as that. In a thousand years time, those tests they took with nothing in their system will still show that they have nothing in their system, it doesn't matter about the testing technology.

As for DJK who stated earlier that I was 'trying to insinuate' that the IAAF were corrupt when it came to anti-doping. It wasn't an insinuation, it was a straight up comment. The IAAF are corrupt. Certain people are protected by them and will always be protected by them, that's why you only see big scandals when law enforcement and governments get involved in an investigation, despite the sport being dirty to the core.

These discussions come about when you get athletics people discussing with non-athletics people.

Dont tell me you saw Elvis in a shopping mall in Stratford buying toilet roll and peanut butter also. All these conspiracies with no evidence to support it. It sounds like ramblings of a lunatic.

The IAAF may be corrupt, but the JA sprinters who train in JA are 100% clean. I get my facts from the same place you get yours. Its only when they get to Europe and USA that they start taking PEDs. Case in point being Mullings. Prove me wrong.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 5:58 pm

djlovesyou wrote:Ottey also failed a drug test, but was let off on a technicality by the IAAF for being too big a name.

A few medals, mostly minor, over a period of 30 years is hardly indicative of the absolutely domination they enjoy now.

Absolute domination in sprinting has only ever meant (and will continue to mean) one thing. The length of the domination depends only on how long the IAAF can provide protection.

You're getting a tad abusive DJK. Be careful.

The have a golden generation of sprinters. Nothing wrong with that or surprising. They're clean bro. Cleeeen I tell ya. Appreciate and enjoy their yam and dashin (you know what that is) powered speed. No PEDs as that's for Euros and US based runners.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:00 pm

A general question to all the naysayers. Of the 24 semi finalists, name a few who you thought were clean. Answer is you can and try not to dodge again.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:01 pm

english_osprey wrote:djk my good friend

as we were discussing the utter domination of jamaican sprinting and mens sprinting in particular I was of course referring to the mens 100m and 200m in which jamaica did not achieve a medal for 30+ years but recently contrived a clean sweep in the MENS 200m

apologies if that wasn't clear

top class ranting by the way

The women? Lots of those you mentioned peded right up of course. Let's get to them later though.

see you in 24hrs

They train and work hard. Ate the right food and had self belief. thumbsup

Which of those women were PED'd up to the eyeballs. Go on. Name names and show some evidence. Ottey I'll give you seeing as she trained outside JA (Italy I believe).

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:03 pm

azania wrote:
djlovesyou wrote:Ottey also failed a drug test, but was let off on a technicality by the IAAF for being too big a name.

A few medals, mostly minor, over a period of 30 years is hardly indicative of the absolutely domination they enjoy now.

Absolute domination in sprinting has only ever meant (and will continue to mean) one thing. The length of the domination depends only on how long the IAAF can provide protection.

You're getting a tad abusive DJK. Be careful.

The have a golden generation of sprinters. Nothing wrong with that or surprising. They're clean bro. Cleeeen I tell ya. Appreciate and enjoy their yam and dashin (you know what that is) powered speed. No PEDs as that's for Euros and US based runners.

Yohan Blake and two other sprinters tested +'ve in 2009.

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:07 pm

I appreciate you have zero background in the sport, but let me educate you.

Running crazy fast as a training group is enough evidence for most knowledgable people to have some quite strong doubts.

Particularly combined with the fact that it's a tiny country, lax drug testing and previous indiscretions.

Coming out with '100% clean' with zero evidence is far more 'out there' than having some quite serious reservations, but you would know that if you weren't just some guy looking for an argument without any real knowledge to back it up. But you still believe that drug testing works, don't you?

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:14 pm

djlovesyou wrote:I appreciate you have zero background in the sport, but let me educate you.

Running crazy fast as a training group is enough evidence for most knowledgable people to have some quite strong doubts.
Particularly combined with the fact that it's a tiny country, lax drug testing and previous indiscretions.

Coming out with '100% clean' with zero evidence is far more 'out there' than having some quite serious reservations, but you would know that if you weren't just some guy looking for an argument without any real knowledge to back it up. But you still believe that drug testing works, don't you?

I don't think it's possible anymore to run clean in the 200m and have a cat in hell's chance of winning. The 100m may still be possible.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:19 pm

Super D Boon wrote:
azania wrote:
djlovesyou wrote:Ottey also failed a drug test, but was let off on a technicality by the IAAF for being too big a name.

A few medals, mostly minor, over a period of 30 years is hardly indicative of the absolutely domination they enjoy now.

Absolute domination in sprinting has only ever meant (and will continue to mean) one thing. The length of the domination depends only on how long the IAAF can provide protection.

You're getting a tad abusive DJK. Be careful.

The have a golden generation of sprinters. Nothing wrong with that or surprising. They're clean bro. Cleeeen I tell ya. Appreciate and enjoy their yam and dashin (you know what that is) powered speed. No PEDs as that's for Euros and US based runners.

Yohan Blake and two other sprinters tested +'ve in 2009.

I know. They had some\minor drugs which can be bought over the counter. Like Alan Baxter. No big deal. They stopped it and are now runing clean. More importantly they have seen the system at work.

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:21 pm

What gave it away for the Jamaicans was guys like Nesta Carter and Michael Frater making these huge jumps late in their careers. Along with other athletes like Melaine Walker coming from nowhere in Beijing.

They were well trained and completely exposed over a period of perhaps 10 years, and then bam they start busting 9.8x.

These were world record times in the 'dirty era'. Now we've got half a dozen guys from the same street doing it for fun. I can try to accept the whole 'prodigy' thing, but when you've got a bunch of late 20 something 10.1 guys 'emerging', it kinda gives the game away.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:22 pm

djlovesyou wrote:I appreciate you have zero background in the sport, but let me educate you.

Running crazy fast as a training group is enough evidence for most knowledgable people to have some quite strong doubts.

Particularly combined with the fact that it's a tiny country, lax drug testing and previous indiscretions.

Coming out with '100% clean' with zero evidence is far more 'out there' than having some quite serious reservations, but you would know that if you weren't just some guy looking for an argument without any real knowledge to back it up. But you still believe that drug testing works, don't you?

I have more background than you imagine sonny boy.

Running crazy fast times is evidence of hard work and talent. You accuse me of having no evidence and you come up with this tripe. Who are these knowledgeable people who know so much? Conte?

So far you goons have made wild accusation without so much as evidence. Just gossip which some geezer in a boozer after 10 pints can come up with.

Either back up what you say or shut up. It is that simple.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:24 pm

djlovesyou wrote:What gave it away for the Jamaicans was guys like Nesta Carter and Michael Frater making these huge jumps late in their careers. Along with other athletes like Melaine Walker coming from nowhere in Beijing.

They were well trained and completely exposed over a period of perhaps 10 years, and then bam they start busting 9.8x.

These were world record times in the 'dirty era'. Now we've got half a dozen guys from the same street doing it for fun. I can try to accept the whole 'prodigy' thing, but when you've got a bunch of late 20 something 10.1 guys 'emerging', it kinda gives the game away.

Better coaching and training is a giveaway? You are like an old woman who reads the gossip rags. You are clutching at straws and coming up with gossip.

Put up or shut up.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:25 pm

Super D Boon wrote:
djlovesyou wrote:I appreciate you have zero background in the sport, but let me educate you.

Running crazy fast as a training group is enough evidence for most knowledgable people to have some quite strong doubts.
Particularly combined with the fact that it's a tiny country, lax drug testing and previous indiscretions.

Coming out with '100% clean' with zero evidence is far more 'out there' than having some quite serious reservations, but you would know that if you weren't just some guy looking for an argument without any real knowledge to back it up. But you still believe that drug testing works, don't you?

I don't think it's possible anymore to run clean in the 200m and have a cat in hell's chance of winning. The 100m may still be possible.

There is more scope for improving the 200m record if the race is run properly. In particular how they adjust from the bend to the straight and if they retain their form and technique along the way.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:27 pm

I'll add, one sprinter who I have massive doubts about is Adam Gemili. Such an improvement in 6 months is near on impossible without PEDs. Watch him. My source is the same as DJ and EO.

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:34 pm

djlovesyou wrote:What gave it away for the Jamaicans was guys like Nesta Carter and Michael Frater making these huge jumps late in their careers. Along with other athletes like Melaine Walker coming from nowhere in Beijing.

They were well trained and completely exposed over a period of perhaps 10 years, and then bam they start busting 9.8x.

These were world record times in the 'dirty era'. Now we've got half a dozen guys from the same street doing it for fun. I can try to accept the whole 'prodigy' thing, but when you've got a bunch of late 20 something 10.1 guys 'emerging', it kinda gives the game away.

In fairness some sprinters peak in their late twenties. Allan Wells won the Olympics at 28 years old as too did Donovan Bailey and despite it being far from a guarantee I think these two were rare examples of clean sprinters.

Agree with Nesta Carter though who was an absolute nobody who suddenly is able to run 9.78, one of the fasters guys ever! Blake knocking off half a second in the 200m in less than a year is the one that gets me the most. Blake's whole image is based around "hard work" which makes me extremely suspicious of him. His body looks too pumped to be natural and his face looks like it's been blown out of proportion to his head. He really looks like a juice guzzler.

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:40 pm

Take a breath, or you'll end up the same way DJK went.

I would have doubts about Gemili too if 6 of his schoolmates qualified for the Olympics also.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:41 pm

Blake is clean. The Canadians are probably the cleanest but they had Bruni Surin who ran some crazy times late in his career. He was tested practically every day. Carter ran that time with a 2m following wind. Perfect conditions. He is probably a high 9.8 runner under normal circumstances at his best.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:42 pm

djlovesyou wrote:Take a breath, or you'll end up the same way DJK went.

I would have doubts about Gemili too if 6 of his schoolmates qualified for the Olympics also.

Hahaha. I'm not losing my temper. Gemili goes to a school with 2.5m other people? What school is that?

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:43 pm

Why are you guys not answering the question? Which sprinters are clean?

by Super D Boon Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:44 pm

azania wrote:
Super D Boon wrote:
djlovesyou wrote:I appreciate you have zero background in the sport, but let me educate you.

Running crazy fast as a training group is enough evidence for most knowledgable people to have some quite strong doubts.
Particularly combined with the fact that it's a tiny country, lax drug testing and previous indiscretions.

Coming out with '100% clean' with zero evidence is far more 'out there' than having some quite serious reservations, but you would know that if you weren't just some guy looking for an argument without any real knowledge to back it up. But you still believe that drug testing works, don't you?

I don't think it's possible anymore to run clean in the 200m and have a cat in hell's chance of winning. The 100m may still be possible.

There is more scope for improving the 200m record if the race is run properly. In particular how they adjust from the bend to the straight and if they retain their form and technique along the way.

It's far harder to maintain flat out sprint speeds over 200m than 100m. In the past you had guys that cruised on the bend and brought it home in the straights or guys that did their best work on the bend and tried to hold on in the straight. Now you have guys that can blast out both and make a 25 year old record of 19.72 look like it could be run by my deceased nan. I can't believe the human form (unaided) is capable of that. For the average person the 100m is actually quite a long way to run as fast as you possibly can so the 200m is obviously double that. 200 meters is a long way to run stupidly fast let's not forget that.

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:49 pm

Speed endurance. Personally I could never run the 200 and keep my form. But some guys have faster 200m splits than 100m.

When MJ broke the world record, he also dragged Fredericks to 19.66. Other followed shortly after. If a sprinter sets the bar high, others will follow.

by djlovesyou Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:50 pm

azania wrote:Speed endurance. Personally I could never run the 200 and keep my form. But some guys have faster 200m splits than 100m.

What does that even mean?

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:53 pm

Divide 200m by 2. Look at their 100m PB.

Clean athletes? Are you going to duck that question son?

by azania Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:55 pm

Another question which I doubt the rejectionists will even look at. Are the JA sprinters dirtier than the Team GB cycling team?

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