Which is more disliked London Welsh Or Bankers Or Politicians

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Which is more disliked London Welsh Or Bankers Or Politicians?

Bathite wrote:

beshocked wrote:

What do they add though? Don't paper over the cracks and flaws. I defend my club and their players ferociously but I also acknowledge their flaws. Shame others cannot or refuse to do the same.

What do they add? Umm, they are professional players playing in a club. So what if they won't play international rugby, for England or another country, only a handful will be luckily enough to do so. Struggling to see how you think a club should be full of players all capable of playing for their country, that's a dreamworld, unless you go to the Italy model and only have 2 clubs!

Bathite -: The ideal is to have every team playing in the Jeff filled with English players all of a high standard. That is not realisitically achievable. However what is realisitcally achievable is to ensure that the players that are not English are of a good quality, and actually good enough to be internationals (whether they want to or not). Dollman and Steensen for example are both decent players, however could you really see Dollman ousting Manu, Barritt etc from England (or Davies, Roberts, Williams, Beck from Wales), and likewise with Steensen could you see him being up to the standard to replace Flood or Farrell (or Sexton and O'Gara). If you look at the Irish (and yes they have less teams before you say) they bring in unqualified players who are of the best quality, and who would probably oust their Irish counterparts out fo the national side if they were qualified (Nacewa, Howlett, Mafi, Thorne etc).

Bathite wrote:The more I read, the more I have to say, but there simply isn't enough time to address the c rap chatted here!

A rugby clubs primary aim is to win games, not to produce England internationals. They run like a business in order to do this. Like a business, they aim to get the best employees together, whilst managing their overheads (in this case done by the salary cap).

They are businesses, and they get bonus' for producing/supplying English internationals, so why feild an average non-english lad when you could feild an average english lad. Or do the English players come with an over inflated price tag compare to the non-english?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Bathite wrote:

beshocked wrote:

What do they add though? Don't paper over the cracks and flaws. I defend my club and their players ferociously but I also acknowledge their flaws. Shame others cannot or refuse to do the same.

What do they add? Umm, they are professional players playing in a club. So what if they won't play international rugby, for England or another country, only a handful will be luckily enough to do so. Struggling to see how you think a club should be full of players all capable of playing for their country, that's a dreamworld, unless you go to the Italy model and only have 2 clubs!

Bathite -: The ideal is to have every team playing in the Jeff filled with English players all of a high standard. That is not realisitically achievable. However what is realisitcally achievable is to ensure that the players that are not English are of a good quality, and actually good enough to be internationals (whether they want to or not). Dollman and Steensen for example are both decent players, however could you really see Dollman ousting Manu, Barritt etc from England (or Davies, Roberts, Williams, Beck from Wales), and likewise with Steensen could you see him being up to the standard to replace Flood or Farrell (or Sexton and O'Gara). If you look at the Irish (and yes they have less teams before you say) they bring in unqualified players who are of the best quality, and who would probably oust their Irish counterparts out fo the national side if they were qualified (Nacewa, Howlett, Mafi, Thorne etc).

Perhaps the difference is simply 12 AP clubs vs 3 main Irish provinces, that is the point!

Asbo - Yeah there are less Irish teams, and they are supported by the IRFU etc. However, how much is Dollman on (just using him as an example)? would you not be able to find an equivalent level English lad for similar money? Or does and average EQ player cost more than an average NEQ player? Or is it that at the accademies are throwing out players reanging from excepitionally good to very good, and average to poor, but not turing out the 'better than average' players which is where the NEQs are required to fill the gap?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Asbo - Yeah there are less Irish teams, and they are supported by the IRFU etc. However, how much is Dollman on (just using him as an example)? would you not be able to find an equivalent level English lad for similar money? Or does and average EQ player cost more than an average NEQ player? Or is it that at the accademies are throwing out players reanging from excepitionally good to very good, and average to poor, but not turing out the 'better than average' players which is where the NEQs are required to fill the gap?

Where would we find this English-born lad of similar quality? At another prem club? So Exe would sign this player, release Dollman, and he would be snapped up by the other prem club.

And they are EQ, that is the whole point!

Shhhhh, don't tell anyone, but it's all a plot. In about twenty years time, Devon will be awash with English-born players with good rugby genes from Ireland, Wales, Samoa, NZ, Oz, France, Fiji, Tonga and Argentina.

Rob Baxter, with his bloodstock farming background, is no doubt on the lookout for a Saffer and a Scot to replace Rennie and, I daresay, Georgians, Russians, etc.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Shhhhh, don't tell anyone, but it's all a plot. In about twenty years time, Devon will be awash with English-born players with good rugby genes from Ireland, Wales, Samoa, NZ, Oz, France, Fiji, Tonga and Argentina.

Rob Baxter, with his bloodstock farming background, is no doubt on the lookout for a Saffer and a Scot to replace Rennie and, I daresay, Georgians, Russians, etc.

Don't forget Muldowney, DLO!

Asbo - it wasn't a dig, and Dollaman was only an example as he was NEQ (unless he is a half and half).

So lets use Steve Shingler instead. I know when he left the Scarlets to LI he was on something like £40k year 1 and £45k year 2. If London Irish had a nose down in the Championship would theyhave been able to hav found an EQ player of similar standards for a similar price tag?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Asbo - it wasn't a dig, and Dollaman was only an example as he was NEQ (unless he is a half and half).

So lets use Steve Shingler instead. I know when he left the Scarlets to LI he was on something like £40k year 1 and £45k year 2. If London Irish had a nose down in the Championship would theyhave been able to hav found an EQ player of similar standards for a similar price tag?

Spidey, knew that and hadn't taken it as such. I see where you're going, but there is a difference between Dollman and Steve Shingler in that the former is English qualified (thru residency) and the latter can never be (thru the IRB's ruling). I guess the direct answer to your question is that London Irish didn't believe they could find a player of similar quality for a similar price tag

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Shhhhh, don't tell anyone, but it's all a plot. In about twenty years time, Devon will be awash with English-born players with good rugby genes from Ireland, Wales, Samoa, NZ, Oz, France, Fiji, Tonga and Argentina.

Rob Baxter, with his bloodstock farming background, is no doubt on the lookout for a Saffer and a Scot to replace Rennie and, I daresay, Georgians, Russians, etc.

Don't forget Muldowney, DLO!

Yes, but he's only a token Scot, diluted by being English-born. Are his genes pure Scottish, though?

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Shhhhh, don't tell anyone, but it's all a plot. In about twenty years time, Devon will be awash with English-born players with good rugby genes from Ireland, Wales, Samoa, NZ, Oz, France, Fiji, Tonga and Argentina.

Rob Baxter, with his bloodstock farming background, is no doubt on the lookout for a Saffer and a Scot to replace Rennie and, I daresay, Georgians, Russians, etc.

Don't forget Muldowney, DLO!

Yes, but he's only a token Scot, diluted by being English-born. Are his genes pure Scottish, though?

Nope, only his jeans

Asbo - Dollman was not English Qualified when he signed though, so he was a project player then? Sort of?

Thinking about the baby farming, that is probably another plus to signing high-quality NEQs if possible. Just think Dan Carter comes over to play, brings his misses over and has a kid, that kid is then EQ from birth!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Asbo - Dollman was not English Qualified when he signed though, so he was a project player then? Sort of?

Thinking about the baby farming, that is probably another plus to signing high-quality NEQs if possible. Just think Dan Carter comes over to play, brings his misses over and has a kid, that kid is then EQ from birth!

True, but Exe were not in the AP then.

On the baby farming, don't the Irish get very excited that some of their NIQs have sprogged down while in Ireland, like Nacewa, Muller and Pienaar?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:.........don't the Irish get very excited that some of their NIQs have sprogged down while in Ireland, like Nacewa, Muller and Pienaar?

Sprogged down, mate? Sprogged?

doctor_grey wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:.........don't the Irish get very excited that some of their NIQs have sprogged down while in Ireland, like Nacewa, Muller and Pienaar?

Sprogged down, mate? Sprogged?

You're not a fan of my newly made-up technical term for bringing a child into the world then, Dr G?!

Actually, I like the creativity of it.
Sprogged rather sounds like putting down a bottle of the cheap stuff and going at it in the back seat of an old Ford.........

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:.........don't the Irish get very excited that some of their NIQs have sprogged down while in Ireland, like Nacewa, Muller and Pienaar?

Sprogged down, mate? Sprogged?

You're not a fan of my newly made-up technical term for bringing a child into the world then, Dr G?!

ASbo - I thought it was more a female sprogged, or calfed or dropped or whatever. I thought it was the act of giving birth.

doctor_grey wrote:Actually, I like the creativity of it.
Sprogged rather sounds like putting down a bottle of the cheap stuff and going at it in the back seat of an old Ford.........

Sounds worryingly familiar

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:.........don't the Irish get very excited that some of their NIQs have sprogged down while in Ireland, like Nacewa, Muller and Pienaar?

Sprogged down, mate? Sprogged?

You're not a fan of my newly made-up technical term for bringing a child into the world then, Dr G?!

ASbo - I thought it was more a female sprogged, or calfed or dropped or whatever. I thought it was the act of giving birth.

Artistic license, Spidey?!

You are suggesting that females of Nacewa, Muller, Pienaar, et al calfed whilst in Ireland?

doctor_grey wrote:You are suggesting that females of Nacewa, Muller, Pienaar, et al calfed whilst in Ireland?

I think they might have, yes (failing memory issue)

Sprogged and calfed does rather take the romance and wonder out of it all, eh?
But considering some of my old girlfriends before I met my glorious missus, calfed might have been a very polite term...........

doctor_grey wrote:Sprogged and calfed does raher take the romance and wonder out of it all, eh? But considering some of my old girlfriends before I met my glorious missus, calfed might have been a very polite term...........

And apt?

doctor_grey wrote:Sprogged and calfed does rather take the romance and wonder out of it all, eh?
But considering some of my old girlfriends before I met my glorious missus, calfed might have been a very polite term...........

The thing to be careful is not to use those words when your wife is overdue. Mine didn't particularly see the funny side to calfed (or dropped when I was refering to a mates partner giving birth).

apt! Indeed!
would have been right on! (fortunately not needed in my case).

to the both of you!

doctor_grey wrote:Actually, I like the creativity of it.
Sprogged rather sounds like putting down a bottle of the cheap stuff and going at it in the back seat of an old Ford.........

You're familiar with the Devon etiquette, then.

That's too funny!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Asbo - it wasn't a dig, and Dollaman was only an example as he was NEQ (unless he is a half and half).

So lets use Steve Shingler instead. I know when he left the Scarlets to LI he was on something like £40k year 1 and £45k year 2. If London Irish had a nose down in the Championship would theyhave been able to hav found an EQ player of similar standards for a similar price tag?

In terms of comparisons to Shingler, there sre decent players in the Championship and lower. Top dollar would be about £30k - Exeter had a wage bill of about £1.5m in the Championship, and were the wealthiest apart from the parachute team.

In this last season, Matt Hopper went from Pirates to Quins, got a chance in the 1st team thanks to injury, and ended up a Saxon. Similarly, Ben Spencer went from Cambridge (level 3) to Sarries as injury cover and also ended up a Saxon and U-20's.

This season, amongst others, just from Pirates, Glaws have signed Drew Locke and Rob Cook, Dave Ward to Quins, Rimmer to Exe. Woos raided their pack both last season and this, and also have Drauniniu (previously of Exeter, Quins, Welsh and England 7's) and Matavesi (Cornish-born Fijian international) from Racing Metro and formerly Exe. Most of those players will only get their chance through injury, and some won't come up to grade, but will likely be solid squad players.

Josh Matavesi is one of those for which the breeding programme went awry - his Fijian dad settled in Cornwall and married a local girl, but Josh opted to play for Fiji when they came calling. Fortunately, he has two younger brothers.

Dubbelyew - so there are quality english players that are cheap enough in the lower leagues. which then leads to the question why go NEQ instead of EQ for the same money (maybe EQ is slightly cheaper).

"Josh Matavesi is one of those for which the breeding programme went awry - his Fijian dad settled in Cornwall and married a local girl, but Josh opted to play for Fiji when they came calling. Fortunately, he has two younger brothers"

That must be gutting! Although as Meatloaf says two outta three ain't bad (Well if they stay anyhow).

I can only speculate, but it may be that there is still prejudice about the perceived gulf in playing standards between Prem and Champ, and there is a risk in signing "untried" players. For example, Matt Hopper was a late developer, I think he's 25 now - he didn't come through the Academy system, but Cardiff Uni, travelling in Aus, then came back to Devon, played a season for Plymouth then one for Pirates when he got noticed. If George Lowe hadn't been injured, he probably would only have played in Quins A team.

There also isn't an unlimited supply of English talent in the Championship - there are plenty of NEQ but RFU are gradually reducing the threshold in return for paying the teams some of what they originally promised on its inception. The Championship are currently taking legal action against RFU.

Another factor is the Academy system - the 14 English Regional Academies are affiliated to the Prem teams (excluding Welsh, plus Bris, Newcastle and Leeds) and hoover up most of the young English players. These players are then commonly Dual Registered or loaned to lower league teams - that's why Lahiff played HC for London Irish this season and also for Welsh in the Championship finals. So, Championship players tend to be grizzled veterans, foreigners, risky late developers, or youngsters already tied to a Prem team.

Dub - so the Championship is a great place to go hunting something to plug a gap, but if your looking for long term it is either from the academy or buy someone in?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dub - so the Championship is a great place to go hunting something to plug a gap, but if your looking for long term it is either from the academy or buy someone in?

I don't know why, but I want to disagree with that, but I can't.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:I don't know why, but I want to disagree with that, but I can't.

That feeling is worse than when you know you should know someones name but you just can't remember it.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:I don't know why, but I want to disagree with that, but I can't.

That feeling is worse than when you know you should know someones name but you just can't remember it.

Yeah imagine how embarrassed Cohen mustve been when he forgot SWilliams' name

Shane who?

Bushys wrote:Shane who?

Ahh S Williams is Shane, I was thining Scott Williams.

Hate is such a strong word.

LordDowlais wrote:Hate is such a strong word.

Lord this thread game about due to a the constant 'london wlesh are poopie' threads on here, I defended them and got a heap of agro. Then I suggested that they are more hated thatn bankers, and was laught at, so finally this thread was born, and so far saying you hate london welsh seems to be the latest craze for them kids the wrong side of the bridge.

Scarletspiderman I made a new thread in yours and Peter seabiscuit wheeler's honour.

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman I made a new thread in yours and Peter seabiscuit wheeler's honour.

I know this word is bounded around too often by Legend!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman I made a new thread in yours and Peter seabiscuit wheeler's honour.

I know this word is bounded around too often by Legend!

Just want to prove that London Welsh aren't as unpopular as you think by putting them against the greatest club on the planet (well that's what Portnoy tells us again and again), the one true region and the most boring club on the planet/full of South Africans.

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman I made a new thread in yours and Peter seabiscuit wheeler's honour.

I know this word is bounded around too often by Legend!

Just want to prove that London Welsh aren't as unpopular as you think by putting them against the greatest club on the planet (well that's what Portnoy tells us again and again), the one true region and the most boring club on the planet/full of South Africans.

Since when have Leicester claimed to be a region? (Boring - Saracens, best ever -Ospreys).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman I made a new thread in yours and Peter seabiscuit wheeler's honour.

I know this word is bounded around too often by Legend!

Just want to prove that London Welsh aren't as unpopular as you think by putting them against the greatest club on the planet (well that's what Portnoy tells us again and again), the one true region and the most boring club on the planet/full of South Africans.

Since when have Leicester claimed to be a region? (Boring - Saracens, best ever -Ospreys).

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman I made a new thread in yours and Peter seabiscuit wheeler's honour.

I know this word is bounded around too often by Legend!

Just want to prove that London Welsh aren't as unpopular as you think by putting them against the greatest club on the planet (well that's what Portnoy tells us again and again), the one true region and the most boring club on the planet/full of South Africans.

Since when have Leicester claimed to be a region? (Boring - Saracens, best ever -Ospreys).

Hang on, the Bulls have a claim to the best ever tag, they're boring and full of Saffas, and they represent a region in SA

Kiwireddevil wrote:

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman I made a new thread in yours and Peter seabiscuit wheeler's honour.

I know this word is bounded around too often by Legend!

Just want to prove that London Welsh aren't as unpopular as you think by putting them against the greatest club on the planet (well that's what Portnoy tells us again and again), the one true region and the most boring club on the planet/full of South Africans.

Since when have Leicester claimed to be a region? (Boring - Saracens, best ever -Ospreys).

Hang on, the Bulls have a claim to the best ever tag, they're boring and full of Saffas, and they represent a region in SA

One dimensional isn't necessarily boring Kiwi.

I'd say the Western Force, Brumbies, Waratahs, Lions, Blues (this year) are more boring than the Bulls. At least they play with intensity and purpose.

Stormers and Waratahs make me fall asleep when they are on attack.

biltongbek wrote:Stormers and Waratahs make me fall asleep when they are on attack.

Are you saying that Super Rugby isn't up to the NH standards? (please)

gowales wrote:I'd say the Western Force, Brumbies, Waratahs, Lions, Blues (this year) are more boring than the Bulls. At least they play with intensity and purpose.

I was stretching a point on the "boring" to try to make the joke work (I was also stretching on the "best team" bit too )