Nigel Owens and Ireland and the Ruck Monkey

So with all the emotional from the air disappear I take another look to yesterdays games.

First up Ireland.

Now all week we read about in the papers how Ireland better NZ at the breakdown. And a lot of complaining from Ireland about the rules at the ruck not going there way.

So this weekend Nigel Owens seem to go out with the mind already that Ireland better and really let them away with a lot of things.

"Obstruction, Obstruction, Obstruction" must have been Irish game plan because from very start this is what they doing. Watch the game again. Always have the Irish back row, particular no.6 run horizontal in front of the Irish attacker. At the ruck Ireland have "pillars" out like it was 2004. On the kick off Ireland give up catch the ball and look to impeding advancing all blacks "second receiver" to take the tip. They just barge them off the way before the ball arrive.

Second Nigel Owens allow the Irish to enter the defensive ruck in "ruck monkey" position. They flop over the tackle area and take the weight to their hands then start to grapple at the ball. This is not allowed in the SH where attacking clearance is favour and defenders must attack only the isolated runner and stay to the feet always. No wonder Richie McCaw look so confused most of the game!

On the contrary Owens penalise the all blacks on the clear out who lose their feet try to clear away the Irish defenders. This is refereeing from a decade ago.

Add to that the knee-jerk yellow card for israel dagg who was already commit to a innocuous charge down and we see that Owens was clearly start the game on the north side of euqator and too influence by the Irish fans in the crowd and media run up to the game.

This tubby Welshman is the center of a lot of controversy. And is it time to give him the pension and move on with younger fitter referees who can keep up with the rules and the match?

All evidence that McCaw is on the wane if you ask me

Owens is a good ref and a did a good job on Saturday. Don't have much more to add sorry.

You don't need any more evidence than watch Owens when all balcks score the try.

He sound so dejected and wont award the try even though is clear.

The tone in his voice is so deflated when he ask "Oh, is it a try? I can't see." just listen to the tone of his voice he is upset and angry.

This man is truely referee from stone age and must be move on for better younger referee who are fit to keep up with the match and not favour one team.

Or perhaps when he penalise Thompson for "not roll away" when he is injured and cant get up!

The man might have put to his back a green jersey!

Amazing the all blacks still win really.

Why would owens want us to win? This is the stupiest thing i have ever read on this forum...if he wanted us to win then why would he give a penalty against us on that scrum at the end?

Leinster, don't worry, the All Blacks are used to McCaw reffing the breakdown, when the real ref decides to police the breakdown in accordance with the rules, and refuses to just toe the McCaw line, they don't like it.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Or perhaps when he penalise Thompson for "not roll away" when he is injured and cant get up!

The man might have put to his back a green jersey!

Amazing the all blacks still win really.

Sounds a lot like something grey ghost would say.

Nigel is one of the best ref's around at least he does not apply different rules for each team very apparent with the SH ref's they all appear to be homer's, I had to write that with care. Nigel is also very fit he trains with the regional rugby teams in Wales. I only saw the first 25mins and thought he was doing well, Ireland deserved to be up at that point.

You almost sounded convincing until you said Dagg's blatent jump into Kearney was innocuous, but given this ridiculous statement the rest now sounds like bitter winging.

Last thing we need is more idiots on here.

These Irish boys are reffed by Owens every week, they know exactly howto play him and what his strengths and weaknesses are. austraslia knew how to play the referee in the welsh second test on Saturday, they knew what he would penalise and what he would be looking for. It's familiarity not cheating.

Can't wait for Nige to ref the England U20 boys when they grow up .
Boy are they gobby.

Sin é wrote:Can't wait for Nige to ref the England U20 boys when they grow up .
Boy are they gobby.

It won't happen, they would be told not to annoy him, refs like Nigel and Rolland are so self assured the players would know not to cross them.

anotherworldofpain wrote:
"Obstruction, Obstruction, Obstruction" must have been Irish game plan because from very start this is what they doing. Watch the game again.

Now watch the game and look out for AB Obstructions..... thanks in advance.

Owens was solid yesterday. He favoured Ireland at times admittedly, but to say he was biased to the point of wanting Ireland to win is laughable. To say any ref does that is just a joke!

Best of all maybe when he try to call "no knock on" until both touch judges call to his ear and it come over the microphone and he have to change his mind.

Also call "touch in flight" come from the touch judge after he call for 22.

I watch the Dagg yellow card ten times and cant see how is even a penalty for this. He is in the air before the kick is made and he try to turn his body away from the impact. Not even a penalty.

Standulstermen wrote:Last thing we need is more idiots on here.

Ulsterman, rodders arranged some project players for you on the SA vs ARG U20's match, maybe change of scenery will be good.

We may not call people idiots mate, you should know better.

Actually the "ruck monkey" thing is a very valid point . NH teams seem to do it a lot . Whenever theres a tackle one player flops over the tackled player and bridges with his hands on the deck nowhere near the ball. And the refs let them get away with it all the time it was very annoying , i thought bridging on opposition ball was illegal? Arent you supposed to support your weight and challenge for the ball if you're second man in not bridge ?

It happened in every game this weekend, what bothers me more is the offside positioning by Franks especially when he blocks access to the halfback in an offside position

Yes Bullsbok thankyou! this is my main point. It is impossible to clear the bridging monkey away legally because on contact they tend to fall over more and block the ball and you have to be so low to get them out you can't stay on the feet. Is also dangerous because exposes the curve back to the opposition. If someone go in hard down with the elbow or knee could be easy to break the back.

More dangerous than the "tip tackle" and should be refereed hard in the NH too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4 like that biltong?

I also don't like the arrival of the centipede. So many times today and yesterday commentator mention this is illegal because centipede players not bound properly so they offside and the ball is out. But why the referee dont know this?

Was Owens lenient on Dagg and should ID actually have been red carded for a deliberate attempt to injure an opponent with his elbow? Whilst I think Owens got it right, does he really have that level of autonomy?

Bullsbok wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4 like that biltong?

Dont worry about the australian properganda ! just spend the time watching to learn from a master https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II71OLPEJ_g&feature=related

The Great Aukster wrote:Was Owens lenient on Dagg and should ID actually have been red carded for a deliberate attempt to injure an opponent with his elbow? Whilst I think Owens got it right, does he really have that level of autonomy?

Very red card happy people on this side of the globe . Even on the stream i was watching my nhers were immediately calling for the red card and the excuse given was Sam Warbuton (Everytime)

Bullsbok wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4 like that biltong?

Exactly like that bullsbok.

Many times in the game a tackler jump to charge the kick and make contact with the player. Watch again Dagg is in the air already BEFORE the kick and he just turn his body. Keaney just milk it like a thirsty baby and get the penalty. Owens was 50 meteres away and typical just to think what the crowd is shouting.

1:37:36. If you don't think that's a penalty then there is something wrong. Leads with the elbow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqJ-KxVMRPc&list=UULDuHINtL5GN1PMroNv-hxQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Sorry but I don't. He turn his body and there is impact. It's a contact suport! not tiddlewinks!

Nobody is injury by this.

Some softies at the moment want to make everything about rugby illegal! Start with the tip tackle after the BOD accident but now every time is a tackle or a contact someone want a red card. Is pathetic!

Even the Kiwis agree it was a penalty. Dagg doesn't complain.

He said he just jumped to charge down the kick and there was contact and" the referee made his call". This is all blacks speak about they think the wrong call but part of agreement in the players is not to criticise the referee.

I dont care who agree. Is my opinion that is turning into a soft game when this is the yellow card!

Is it a penalty though?

I dont think so at all. Just a collision after the ball is gone. Happen all the time.

You must have a hatred of the Irish then, I don't see how that isn't a penalty. He can't control the collision fair enough, he turns and leads with the elbow.

Thomond wrote:You must have a hatred of the Irish then, I don't see how that isn't a penalty. He can't control the collision fair enough, he turns and leads with the elbow.

yes penalty . Thats all. Its not worthy of a card as the biased irish comms were suggesting on skysports yesterday

If it's a penalty, why isn't it a card? Just wondering, it had little impact on the game really.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Sorry but I don't. He turn his body and there is impact. It's a contact suport! not tiddlewinks!

Nobody is injury by this.

Some softies at the moment want to make everything about rugby illegal! Start with the tip tackle after the BOD accident but now every time is a tackle or a contact someone want a red card. Is pathetic!

It was a yellow...not a red. It was deserved and it was all that was required. The yellow not the red. Now, New Zealand met Ireland in 2010 when rugby was also a contact sport, not tiddlewinks. ABs won that one too and who were down to 13 men (one yellow one red)? Yes, Ireland who play the tiddlewinks rugby. What goes around comes around... you make contact in an inappropriate way to considered rules on fairness and you walk for 10 or for the entire game.

SecretFly wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Sorry but I don't. He turn his body and there is impact. It's a contact suport! not tiddlewinks!

Nobody is injury by this.

Some softies at the moment want to make everything about rugby illegal! Start with the tip tackle after the BOD accident but now every time is a tackle or a contact someone want a red card. Is pathetic!

It was a yellow...not a red. It was deserved and it was all that was required. The yellow not the red. Now, New Zealand met Ireland in 2010 when rugby was also a contact sport, not tiddlewinks. ABs won that one too and who were down to 13 men (one yellow one red)? Yes, Ireland who play the tiddlewinks rugby. What goes around comes around... you make contact in an inappropriate way to considered rules on fairness and you walk for 10 or for the entire game.

i think theres a difference between pulling someone back to prevent a try and repeatedly kneeing the All black Captain in the head compared to a botched charge down attempt

Wasn't really botched, he went out of his way to lead with the elbow.

Bullsbok wrote:
i think theres a difference between pulling someone back to prevent a try and repeatedly kneeing the All black Captain in the head compared to a botched charge down attempt

The difference Bullsbok...the difference is you and worldofpain see it as a "botched charge down" whilst I and others (plus a ref) didn't. That's the difference. Had Kearney (that's the Irish player ) impacted with Dagg in that way, there wouldn't be excuses churned out now by you. The charge is that the Irish player would have been less talented and therefore needed to be dirty and cheap, but Dagg is superskilled and therefore doesn't need to be. That's the deal I'm hearing from the apologists.

The All Blacks are human...they do cheat, they do take cheap shots when and if they think they need to. This was one of them A yellow...it happens. No big deal.

Apart from his exceedingly annoying voice and slightly school-masterly attitude Owens is a good ref.

from what i saw of the match there were only two dodgey decisions i saw from owens.
1st was the yellow card when i initially saw it, but in hindsight it was,
2nd was the scrum which the AB's got a penalty for in the last few minutes.

I didn't have a problem with Owens first game or second game. I felt there were times when he was unduely tough on Ireland but in a sense I like that. I wanted and want this to be a tough tour for the Irish players. Playing the ABs in their home is seriously tough enough and then a meticulous ref is just another pressure point that will push these newer Irish players along a very steep learning curve. That's what I want. Brutal realism at the toughest coal face.... absolutely great experience

Owens was great in both games. Ireland lost the second game due to our own lack of discipline. Stupid, stupid penalties. We let the ABs into the game.

Bullsbok wrote:

Thomond wrote:You must have a hatred of the Irish then, I don't see how that isn't a penalty. He can't control the collision fair enough, he turns and leads with the elbow.

yes penalty . Thats all. Its not worthy of a card as the biased irish comms were suggesting on skysports yesterday

It makes me laughing when the IRISH commentators say "Yes that's definitely a yellow card, no question about it" and they were so exciting about the chance to winning.

Anyone remember the reaction to the penalty given to SA in the last Lions series when ROG did something similar?

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Thomond wrote:You must have a hatred of the Irish then, I don't see how that isn't a penalty. He can't control the collision fair enough, he turns and leads with the elbow.

yes penalty . Thats all. Its not worthy of a card as the biased irish comms were suggesting on skysports yesterday

It makes me laughing when the IRISH commentators say "Yes that's definitely a yellow card, no question about it" and they were so exciting about the chance to winning.

Anyone remember the reaction to the penalty given to SA in the last Lions series when ROG did something similar?

So what you're really complaining about is the commentators? And not the actual offence? Could you not have said this at the start of the post and saved all the roundabout bickering and point scoring?

And to be fair when you listen to the NZ and Oz commentators and how one eyed they are then you can hardly hold it against one Irish ex player.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Thomond wrote:You must have a hatred of the Irish then, I don't see how that isn't a penalty. He can't control the collision fair enough, he turns and leads with the elbow.

yes penalty . Thats all. Its not worthy of a card as the biased irish comms were suggesting on skysports yesterday

It makes me laughing when the IRISH commentators say "Yes that's definitely a yellow card, no question about it" and they were so exciting about the chance to winning.

Anyone remember the reaction to the penalty given to SA in the last Lions series when ROG did something similar?

Do you? Name and shame world...name and shame. And concentrate on the specific Irish reaction (as distignuished from the Scots, English and Welsh who might have been complaining at the time). Seems to have got under your skin a little - this laughable idea that the Irish thought they could have won a game against the ABs, the cheeky devils!

I just watched the match again with the NZ commentry and Justin Marshall thought it was a certain penalty and card, he actually pointed out numerous AB infringements throughout the game which I and the sky commentators actually missed such as the obstruction of our kick chasers, in particular on Rob Kearney...... top bloke Marshall...sharp a a razor

I though Owens had an excellent game and was pretty fair to both teams but missed a few infringements on both sides.

rodders wrote:Justin Marshall pointed out numerous AB infringements throughout the game which I and the sky commentators actually missed such as the obstruction of our kick chasers, in particular on Rob Kearney...... top bloke Marshall...sharp a a razor

I asked worldofpain to go over the game again and point out the obvious AB "obstructions" for balance sake, but he seems too busy at the moment