Will this loss teach Wales a valuable lesson?

After the game i was distraught, so many times I’ve seen Wales be nearly men. Only to lose in the last 10/5 minutes due to poor tactical choices or a lapse of concentration. After having a good amount of time to reflect on the game I’ve been thinking that this loss may have been a hard lesson learnt. But a valuable lesson learnt. The top teams, whoever they are. NZ, Leinster, Munster going all the way back to Wasps and Leicester have always had a fantastic knack of holding on to the ball in the last minutes of a game. The forwards keeping the ball tight for 15,20 phases to murder the clock and then belt it out. My thinking is that this defeat will be so hurtful that the player will take it on board as they will never want to feel like it again.

I'm not going to blame Priestland, I thought he had a good game all in all. Was kicking the ball away at that point stupid? Yes! But will he make this mistake again? I don’t think so. He is only 25 and may have 6 or 7 years of test football left in him. As a team everyone will be aware of the repercussions of booting that ball away so late in the game. If you have the ball destiny is in your hands.

So as a conclusion, I’m going to take a positive, and only one positive out of the game. I think this defeat may be a good thing for the players psychologically as this kind of loss will linger in their minds for the rest of their carriers and they will develop an instinct to keep the ball until the clock ticks over 80.

Coleman,

We havent' learnt in the past so I am not holding my breath at the moment.

Kicking the poor away wasn't a poor option but the execution of that option was poor, as was a lot of his kicking yesterday.

He should have played theouchline and rolled it into touch 5 metres out ala ROG when he kicks the corners.

"He should have played theouchline and rolled it into touch 5 metres out ala ROG when he kicks the corners." -- The problem in those dying minutes was not just Priestland's. Where was the communication? A lot of the Wales fowards were on the floor and quite a distance away from P when he received the ball. Everyone should have been focussed then and singing from the same songsheet but they weren't. Hibbard gave the game away by giving away a stupid pen, which they kicked to the touchline for the lineout. Dreadful lack of discipline.

It’s not about who gave the game away, but if the players will learn how to close out a game like the great teams of the past and present do.

"It’s not about who gave the game away" -- It's about the why. But stupid mistakes like this have been made before (poor disciline, poor game management/poor tactical kicking). Players should be dropped so they can stew over their blunders. That way, individuals may learn from their blunders, which might help to make the team stronger and more effective.

Ok then, as a solution who do we drop? I know Priestland is a candiate. Hibbard? Hes on the periphery, that wont achive anything. Webb? He passed the ball, guess hes got to go too?

[quote="Ospreydragon"]" Players should be dropped so they can stew over their blunders.

Exactly, how is Popham doing these days

As I stated on another post I Evans said it all with 2 mins left "someone needs to take control of the ball" that someone should be the captain, he should have taken the ball on through the forwards as against Ireland and England in the 2008 GS games, the difference is we had a captain during 2008.

Some headless chicken suggestions there lads...

I dont want to see many changes... I liked Beck and Davies in the centre. I think Persisting with Priestland is a difficult call. He did a lot right but he also made a few blunders.

Webb did well off the Bench.

We need Warburton Priestland and Phillips to have bigger games. We know they can do it.

Look if we played like we did on Saturday against any 6 Nations team we would of won. I'd rather win in the 6 Nations than some end of season tour.

Truth be told I was quite pleased and proud of the Welsh lads, they played rugby against a team who also likes to play rugby. the lead changed hands god knows how many times and they pushed the second ranked team in the world really close.

This Welsh team could mature into a great one, the players were gutted after the game, I was amazed to see that. Hell for most of my life time if we'd of played like that against Australia we'd close streets off and throw street parties! the boys were broken hearted they believe in themselves and expect and put pressure on themselves to win. That's a good thing.

these boys had almost no off season at the end of the year, then went straight into a world cup, and have been flogged for ages. they need a break badly, yet still after a year long season they are fighting hard and competing against Australia!

If anything, this series has shown so far that Wales can play very poorly and come close to beating Australia away,

our lineout was a shambles in the 2nd test, we didnt create many tries after the first 5 minutes but we were still within a whisker of beating Australia in their own back yard.

I don't think we should be satisfied with losing, especially the way we did.

Scotland and England have beaten this Oz side home and away.

samuraidragon wrote:I don't think we should be satisfied with losing, especially the way we did.

Scotland and England have beaten this Oz side home and away.

Ifwe had played a little better I am sure we would have too. Unfortunately we didnt this weekend.

Of course Wales can close out tight games are we forgetting Twickenham this year or the game in Dublin where we did the reverse snatching the game at the end .The frustration is that we haven't done it yet against the SH .

I don't think we played well at all yesterday but that is the thing we can play a lot better teams are sometimes tempered and made better in the long run through these adversities. How long did Clive Woodwards England have to take the Celtic slambusters p**s taking for before they got success .

As for thr dead rubber aren't there still ranking points up for grabs and series lost or not a first win in A ustralia since Gareth Edwards played straight out of school .Enough I hope for the players to get motivated about. .

In short - no. This is just history repeating itself and Wales lacking the mentality and compusure to see out a game against a SH side as is a regular occurance with them.

Lessons should have been learned from the world cup, the SA game, the first test against Australia but its the same old story. Mentally they just seem incapable of getting over that hurdle when it comes to the SH teams.

Do not be surprised if the final test is more of the same. Shame, because Wales have the quality. They just lack the belief.

I'm not convinced its a mentality thing, if we had lost this test by some distance then yes I would say we couldnt bounce back from a defeat.

The fact we lost on the last penalty of the game says nothing about the menality, but more towards tactics and selection.

Why do you need the changes? You was close and only lost at the last minute to a very good kick and lost composure about the brink to win!

Why not just play again and learn collective on the experience and back the player to win!!

The two teams are very evenly matched an a win next weekend will give Wales some valuable IRB ranking points.

I am sure lessons are learnt in all games. Putting those lessons into practice is what defines a teams improvement.

No progress as yet, though we have tested a few good players since the RWC and have increased the wealth of talented and capable players within the squad.

I assume that whoever is reffing the 3rd Test will have gone ex-directory.

This match was always going to be a lottery in the second half,

The referee saw it like this:

47 minutes. Penalty Barnes
49 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
58 minutes. Penalty Barnes
60 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
64 minutes. Penalty Barnes
66 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
80 minutes. Penalty Harris
81 minutes. Penalty Harris

So the decision made by Priestland was the right one, get out of your half, perhaps he should just have kicked it out, rather than to the back three.

I think Wales fan need to reframe this one as not "another loss" but to a game they compete well enough to win and just lose.

Watch this sequence and tell me what reminds you of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRLB7gjoy4g

(Except that Jon Kaplan runs 20 minutes extra time until Australia win)

Now did NZ change the all team and blame the coach and whinge? Not. They just go back and win 10 times in a row! So wales compete regularly in the 3N sometimes makes the heartbreak but doesnt mean you did something wrong!

Notice also apart from symmetry that Larkham kicks deep away the ball just like Priestland!

I'm sure NZ just lacked the winning mentality and composure to win that game.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Now did NZ change the all team and blame the coach and whinge?

No they just blame the food/ref/irb/england/gouging/custard or whatever else they can think of

Now PSW I dont remember them blame custard

Youre right, new zealand are not to be trifled with

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Youre right, new zealand are not to be trifled with

That has to be the funniest thing you have ever said.

biltongbek wrote:This match was always going to be a lottery in the second half,

The referee saw it like this:

47 minutes. Penalty Barnes
49 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
58 minutes. Penalty Barnes
60 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
64 minutes. Penalty Barnes
66 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
80 minutes. Penalty Harris
81 minutes. Penalty Harris

So the decision made by Priestland was the right one, get out of your half, perhaps he should just have kicked it out, rather than to the back three.

There was absolutely nothing in it... The second half shows how tight the games was.

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:This match was always going to be a lottery in the second half,

The referee saw it like this:

47 minutes. Penalty Barnes
49 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
58 minutes. Penalty Barnes
60 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
64 minutes. Penalty Barnes
66 minutes. Penalty Halfpenny
80 minutes. Penalty Harris
81 minutes. Penalty Harris

So the decision made by Priestland was the right one, get out of your half, perhaps he should just have kicked it out, rather than to the back three.

There was absolutely nothing in it... The second half shows how tight the games was.

An important two points were "in it".

I think Wales have blown their best chances of a win against Oz in these first 2 tests.

It is true the 2nd test could have gone either way but it has happened so many times against SH opposition.
The welsh management have constantly said we aren't far away but it never seems to come to fruition.
This young welsh squad came on the back of a grand slam & alleged confidence of a young team that has no baggage or fear.
But in the first test for whatever reason Wales seemed half asleep.

Neither side played well in the second test & it could have gone either way but lack of nouse handed the penalty to Oz.

Beale will be back for the third test & I fear things will get even harder.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I think Wales have blown their best chances of a win against Oz in these first 2 tests.

It is true the 2nd test could have gone either way but it has happened so many times against SH opposition.
The welsh management have constantly said we aren't far away but it never seems to come to fruition.
This young welsh squad came on the back of a grand slam & alleged confidence of a young team that has no baggage or fear.
But in the first test for whatever reason Wales seemed half asleep.

Neither side played well in the second test & it could have gone either way but lack of nouse handed the penalty to Oz.

Beale will be back for the third test & I fear things will get even harder.

Agreed. For some reason, there are some out there who think that Australia can't improve. Aus are without a few key players at the moment and are not playing great. Even in a dead rubber they will have more than enough. Wales have missed their chance.

Looking over the last few years, Wales have lost a fair number of tight matches against SH teams. Not sure why this defeat will teach them a lesson specifically. They do need to start turning close losses into wins, otherwise it becomes this huge cloud - and every time you enter the last few minutes with a narrow lead, there will be that nagging voice in th eback of the player's heads.

Gordy wrote:In short - no. This is just history repeating itself and Wales lacking the mentality and compusure to see out a game against a SH side as is a regular occurance with them.

Lessons should have been learned from the world cup, the SA game, the first test against Australia but its the same old story. Mentally they just seem incapable of getting over that hurdle when it comes to the SH teams.

Do not be surprised if the final test is more of the same. Shame, because Wales have the quality. They just lack the belief.

Well you certainly lack the belief. You could see Wales were absolutely gutted to lose. Like we all were time to take it on the chin and man up.

Learn this lesson can take some time!

Not sure the other close loss count as a "choke" like this one. I remember against NZ Wales almost made the draw with a AWJ interception, but instead of running to the line he tripped up and drop the ball. I think that was a choke too.

But it took NZ 24 years to unchoke in the RWC and nearly was again! So maybe Wales can beat this for just one win next week because is not really any important game any more.

maestegmafia wrote:We need Warburton Priestland and Phillips to have bigger games. We know they can do it.

We need to drop Warburton and Priestland. It was a mistake to have started Warburton in the last two Tests. There's a simple rule of thumb: you pick your best XV, then you pick your captain from that XV. Justin Tipuric has been in superb form the last few months, whereas Warburton's barely played. It was bad management to select Warburton, who - surprise, surprise - has looked off the pace.

As for Priestland, he's a talent when he's on song but he's clearly not on song at the moment. Bullocks to 'votes of confidence': drop him and play Hook.

Will this Loss teach Wales a valuable lesson?

Em............ let's try winning next time?


Sorry, couldn't resist ...carry on

And another thing: our game plan is still flawed. We like to kick and there's nothing wrong with kicking, but out choice of kick is poor. Garryowens from our own 22? That's a daft tactic even when it's executed well because there's a risk of conceding possession. There's also an obsesssion with playing territory, which is okay, but we go about gaining territory in a completely @rse-backwards way. We kick long, but infield, meaning the ball's going to come back to us: no territory gained whatsoever. The Wallabies showed us we should be doing on Saturday: we kicked long and infield; they kicked long for touch, thus winning the battle for territory.

This should be common sense, but not for the Welsh management.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And another thing: our game plan is still flawed. We like to kick and there's nothing wrong with kicking, but out choice of kick is poor. Garryowens from our own 22? That's a daft tactic even when it's executed well because there's a risk of conceding possession. There's also an obsesssion with playing territory, which is okay, but we go about gaining territory in a completely @rse-backwards way. We kick long, but infield, meaning the ball's going to come back to us: no territory gained whatsoever. The Wallabies showed us we should be doing on Saturday: we kicked long and infield; they kicked long for touch, thus winning the battle for territory.

Now I'm being serious. Why does that comment, every last word and comma of it, strike me as the constant drone of us Irish followers about our side. If Wales want a plan that works, please don't follow the Irish one!

The biggest factor missing in priestlands game is patience.

At the RWC he wasn't scared to play phases. But recently we have become more and more rushed, or we just kick ball away.

Thing is I don't think Hook is likely to play a different game, so dropping Priestland would do little.

A large number of errant kicks were from Phillips not Priestland. During the RWC Phillips was on good form, his game protected and helped Priestlands. Phillips needs to buck his ideas up, in many ways, much more than RP.

Warburton is just shy of games, he may need to swap out for Tuperic if he can't lift his game a bit.

maestegmafia wrote:Warburton is just shy of games

Which was always going to be the case, especially early in the series. But they still picked him over an openside in great form. Why? Did they think he had magical powers?

Mike Phillips is always a frustrating scrum half to watch, but he hasn't been playing poorly enough to be dropped. If Rhys Webb had more international game time under his belt, then maybe, but seeing as he's still very inexperienced, we have to stick with Phillips.

Maybe they have painted themselves into a corner where they must keep playing Priestland for the forseeable future, no matter what his form is. Not a conspiracy theory, but put yourself in the management's shoes.

A) You pick Hook at 10 and he plays badly. You get criticized for not persevering with the "up-and-coming" Priest.

B) You pick Hook and he plays a blinder. This is actually much worse because people say "If we'd had Hook, we would have won the series" and start to mutter about coaches not being up to the job.

Same goes for Biggar, to some extent. If he starts in the AI and does well, people say how come he wasn't good enough even to travel to Oz?

The CYA rule of organizations says the safest thing is to carry on picking the Priest. Then there's nothing to compare with.

I don't really know if it will to be honest, we've been saying the same thing for the past 8 years or so

The only thing Wales will learn from this is: Don't lose.