The 31 Fights Question

Okay, bare in mind how late Froch turned bro.

Right, take Froch's 31 fights and consider the amount of top level opponents, think of it in ratio terms, not age. Now, take any other pro fighter active today, look at their first 31 fights, and tell me they have fought at the same level? Tell me they put it on the line, left their backyard, won, fought varied talent or elite skill like Frochy?

Froch is number one in the world on that list, right?

Sugar Ray Leonard. I think Duran twice, Hearns and Benitez with a record of 3-1 trumps anything Carls done..

Edit: Whoops I should really learn to read. Didn't see the word active. Ignore me.

Are you saying he has the best record in terms of who he has fought? In that I agree but if you mean number 1 boxer in the world then surely the two who beat him are better.

Chad Dawson would have an argument,

Harding, Adamek, Johnson x 2, Tarver x 2, Hopkins, x 2, Pascal, Diaconu and now Ward.

Donaire must be considered, too. I'm pretty sure he's not reached thirty-one fights yet, but he's already done enough to secure 'great' status in my estimations.

manos i hope your comment was mean't as irony.

pound for pound i mean in terms of fights fought. In that sense he is number one, you can have all the skill-set in the world and if you do nothing with it then it means just that, nothing. Ward is behind him for me for his stay at home and his less stella record. this sounds strange as he beat froch but i believe on this form froch would steamroll him in a rematch, we all have off nights. kessler's record is nowhere near froch's, but good nonetheless.

donaire is good but not golden.

I agree that he has the best record but i think in a rematch with Ward we will see a very similar outcome, people are just getting too excited over one victory against anopponent who showed serious technical flaws and a dodgy chin. It's kind of like when Prescott blew away Khan and Nelson and Mcrory said we had just seen a future multi-weight world champ. I would however pick him in a Kessler rematch.

I think Froch is universally praised world wide for one of if not the toughest current run of fights and considering most are outside his home country makes it even more impressive. Dawson is a good shout but as his are all at home I think I would give the nod to Froch.

WAR Froch!

Froch is a different beast at home Valero, war Froch!!!!!!

Froch did not get lucky that night, he blasted, out-boxed, out moved a very skillful fighter. He won the fight through talent, and he has adapted before to win in equally convincing fashion, it's focus, if he is focused, 'in the zone' he can beat Ward. Ward has a soft chin.

davidemore wrote:manos i hope your comment was mean't as irony.

pound for pound i mean in terms of fights fought. In that sense he is number one, you can have all the skill-set in the world and if you do nothing with it then it means just that, nothing. Ward is behind him for me for his stay at home and his less stella record. this sounds strange as he beat froch but i believe on this form froch would steamroll him in a rematch, we all have off nights. kessler's record is nowhere near froch's, but good nonetheless.

donaire is good but not golden.

No not irony, I think Dawson in 31 fights can boast an similarly good set of opponents. Hes fought nearly all the top light heavyweights often more than once, established himself as the man there and is now set to face a the man in another division.

I hope your comment that Froch is ahead of Ward and would steamroll him in a rematch was meant as irony.....

What I like about Froch is that he's willing to fight Ward again despite being beaten fairly easily last time. Most boxers would take big money fights against others where he has a better chance of winning but Froch will risk a good chance of another defeat to get another chance.

Its actually a good question. Cottos not miles off.

Torres, Quintana, Judah, Mosley, Margarito, Malinaggi aint bad. The 3 less heralded names on the list were all undefeated at the time. Could through in Corley and Ndou if being generous....

Amen to that Valero, and i honestly believe this. If he beats Kessler, Ward and Bute in a rematch, this is all possible, believe, and if this happens. He's an ATG.

That's right, an ATG. Not top 10 or anything but still, ATG.

Yeah and if he steps up and beats Wlad he will be the best ever. That is as likely as Froch beating Ward.

azania, the greatest cynic since john lennon. hi!

manos no irony, froch is king today, king.

Froch isn't even number 1 on any list. Beating hype jobs who have had a bad day at the office does not maketh you the most fearsome warrior! Dawson has fought better opponents.

Froch is not number 1 in his division and until he beats Ward or unless Ward moves on Froch is just a paper champion like Nathan Cleverley

I wouldn't say Bute was a hype job. He was good. But lets not hype up Froch to another plateau.

He probably makes the top of the list, but the fact remains is that he lost 2 fights and they where perhaps his biggest fights. Froch should get loads of credit but this is becoming a bit too much.

-Bute should have lost to Andrade, his best wins where Magee and Johnson
-Johnson wa suppose tone easy and got caught with far too many right hands, it wa sorely even untill Carl's youth outlasted the 42 year old
-Taylor has yet to show that he is a super middleweight. He beat Hopkins but lost to pavlik twice at 160. He was outboxing and beating froch before the stoppage.
-Abraham was another good win but was another middleweight
-ward comfortably beat him.
-Kessler beat him also and manage to do it fighting frochs type of fight.

Pascal is his best win imo, does that rank higher than Montiel or darchiniyan who donaire blasted away.

He has done great in 31 fights but I think you guys need to calm down abit

Montiel and Darchinyan are no bones about it great great wins for Donaire and even as a Froch fan will admit they far outdo anything on his ledger. By a fair margin it's Donaire for me. Pacquiao and Mayweather can't be far of either, can't pinpoint who they fought in their first 31 fights but can't imagine it's lacks quality.

Dawson would be unfortunate if we limit it to 31 fights because we then take away Hopkins and Diaconu but unfortunately the biggest names in his division were fairly old but looking at it objectively he has never shirked a challenge and always wanted to face the best available. Moving down to 168lbs to face Ward proves that beyond any doubt, he could easily have rested on his laurels at 175lbs but not really his style.

Clinton Woods was number 31 for Tarver. That man has a good list if you just consider the names rather than their age. Same with Holyfield if you still consider him active even though he isn't really relevant any more.

Abner Mares still has time on his side and is fighting very good opposition for a guy with 25 fights. There are a couple who could eclipse everyone like Rigondeaux and Ioka who are world champs after only 9 fights. Ioka by the way is going for a unification fight in only his 10th pro fight does anyone know if that is some kind of record?

88Chris05 wrote:Donaire must be considered, too. I'm pretty sure he's not reached thirty-one fights yet, but he's already done enough to secure 'great' status in my estimations.

The coward needs to fight rigondeaux

I'm not sure if Ioka is breaking any records but he is an outstanding talent.

Mayweather had wins over Corrales and Castillo within his first 31 fights. The Corrales win pumps anything on Frochs record especially the manner he beat him in.

TheMackemMawler wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Donaire must be considered, too. I'm pretty sure he's not reached thirty-one fights yet, but he's already done enough to secure 'great' status in my estimations.

The coward needs to fight rigondeaux

Really?

azania wrote:

TheMackemMawler wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Donaire must be considered, too. I'm pretty sure he's not reached thirty-one fights yet, but he's already done enough to secure 'great' status in my estimations.

The coward needs to fight rigondeaux

Really?

There is nothing to suggest Donaire has ducked anyone. Rigondeaux need to be more active or his immense talent is going to go to waste. Time isn't on his side.

I thought Rigo only had about ten fights? how old is he?

He's in his early 30's the guy had a ridiculous amount of amateur fights. I think he has 2 Olympic golds.

I've been following Rig since 01, he is the greatest of any generation, his acheivements outweigh anyones. He is the greatest! I know this and donaire knows this

TheMackemMawler wrote:I've been following Rig since 01, he is the greatest of any generation, his acheivements outweigh anyones. He is the greatest! I know this and donaire knows this

He struggled with Cordoba. Cordoba is no slouch but if you consider him to be the best of his generation he should have had no problems. Even Jason Booth victim Lanty Addy had some success against him. I would consider Donaire a 50/50 fight.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

TheMackemMawler wrote:I've been following Rig since 01, he is the greatest of any generation, his acheivements outweigh anyones. He is the greatest! I know this and donaire knows this

He struggled with Cordoba. Cordoba is no slouch but if you consider him to be the best of his generation he should have had no problems. Even Jason Booth victim Lanty Addy had some success against him. I would consider Donaire a 50/50 fight.

Cordoba was a 42 fight ex world champion with only 2 defeats.

Rig beat him in his 6th Pro fight. I will permit the.. "struggle".

He won the world title in his 9th fight, no one has acheived what he has in boxing and i doubt they ever will.
I stand corrected if his acheivements have been bested

Tim Bradley? Amir Khan is an abvious omission but he is 28-0 with wins over Witter away from home, Well beat Peterson & handled Alexander. Also holds decent wins over Holt, Vazquez, Campbell, Abregu and a very devalued cassamayor.
Now hes stepping upto Pac for his 29th.

Also Mares has had a decent run of late

Aren't you from the old dayz, David? And did you call yourself "Dave Moron" at one point? Not trying to be rude, but have been away from this site awhile and surprised to see the name...if it is you..!

Rigondeaux was calling out Donaire before he even won a title. I am still not that impressed with him.

I'm confused, what has Rigondeaux achieved that no one else has or will?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I'm confused, what has Rigondeaux achieved that no one else has or will?

400 fights with only 12 losses. Cuban National Champ over and over again, 2 olympic gold medalist and 4 World championship medals in one carnation or another.

If Castro hadn't stopped him goin to beijing he would be only the fourth person in history to win three Olympic gold medals.

He didn't box for two years (2007-2009) then won the world title in his 9th fight. I doubt his acheivements will be bested, though many Cubans may come close if they manage to defect in future.

His amateur career means nothing in the pro ranks to me, think that Papp, Stevenson and Savon may trump him there anyway.

Mackem, are you related to Rigo?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:His amateur career means nothing in the pro ranks to me, think that Papp, Stevenson and Savon may trump him there anyway.

Can you read??? I did say that he would have been only the FOURTH man in history to win 3 olympic gold's (had he went to Beijing).

Well done you figured who the other three were!!

Just be pleased that someone with those credentials has managed to defect from a communist regime and join the pro game. God you are argumentative

Been a hard day?

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Mackem, are you related to Rigo?

A decade ago I was part of the international boxing academy. I remember being made to watch and study him. I admire him that is all, and wish i would have been as dedicated and talented as him. I think i may have a man crush! haha!

Argumentative you were making out as if Rigondeaux was the greatest thing since sliced bread, Papp and Stevenson stand head and shoulders above any other amateur fighters including Savon and Kindelan. Many former amateur stars fail in the pro ranks so i'll reserve judgement until he proves himself.

Winning a world title in his 9th fight is proving a lot. Ah well, there's no pleasing some people. He also said that he was the best in his generation. I doubt MM was around when Papp was doing his stuff.

TheMackemMawler wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Mackem, are you related to Rigo?

A decade ago I was part of the international boxing academy. I remember being made to watch and study him. I admire him that is all, and wish i would have been as dedicated and talented as him. I think i may have a man crush! haha!

Ha, understandable when you put it that way.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:His amateur career means nothing in the pro ranks to me, think that Papp, Stevenson and Savon may trump him there anyway.

His amateur career may not mean much to you, however, it definitely meant something to the guys he beat, and it certainly helped him to win a title with only a handful of fights.



In the short time I've spent frequenting these pages I've became aware that you're quite knowledgeable with regard to facts, stats and history and the like. Would you please be able to tell me which fighter won the world title with the least amount of fights. Cheers

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Argumentative you were making out as if Rigondeaux was the greatest thing since sliced bread, Papp and Stevenson stand head and shoulders above any other amateur fighters including Savon and Kindelan. Many former amateur stars fail in the pro ranks so i'll reserve judgement until he proves himself.

Have any of those won a pro world title?

Papp and Teo are of an older generation so automatically better seems to be the key here. No doubt Papp was the best ever. After all he is of an older generation.

TheMackemMawler wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:His amateur career means nothing in the pro ranks to me, think that Papp, Stevenson and Savon may trump him there anyway.

His amateur career may not mean much to you, however, it definitely meant something to the guys he beat, and it certainly helped him to win a title with only a handful of fights.



In the short time I've spent frequenting these pages I've became aware that you're quite knowledgeable with regard to facts, stats and history and the like. Would you please be able to tell me which fighter won the world title with the least amount of fights. Cheers

Jeff Fenech did it in 6 or 7 fights n Leon Spinks even quicker than that I think.

Do you really want to get into a history lesson on this?

Muangsurin- 3 fights
Sahaprom- 4 fights
Paul Weir- 6 fights
Kittikasem- 7 fights
Jeff Fenech- 7 fights
Sot Chitalada- 8 fights

As far as pro boxing goes Rigondeaux hasn't done anything overly spectacular as yet and as far as pro boxing goes his amateur career means nothing as far as his talent goes, some make it and some don't, it's not the greatest of indicators.

Kazuto Ioka won a World title in his 7th fight. He is in a unification bout next month which will be only his tenth fight.

Ghosty if he unifies 2 belts after 10 fights would that be a record?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Do you really want to get into a history lesson on this?

Muangsurin- 3 fights
Sahaprom- 4 fights
Paul Weir- 6 fights
Kittikasem- 7 fights
Jeff Fenech- 7 fights
Sot Chitalada- 8 fights

As far as pro boxing goes Rigondeaux hasn't done anything overly spectacular as yet and as far as pro boxing goes his amateur career means nothing as far as his talent goes, some make it and some don't, it's not the greatest of indicators.

Yeah I don't mind having a boxing lesson. The more I know the better. It also means i don't have to do the research myself which is always good. You sure know alot about boxing history and alot of boxing facts, I wonder how much you know about boxing. Don;t answer that last part as I will never get to find out. Again cheers for the stats

If anyone has won 2 olympic gold medals and at least 2 World Amateur championship's then it's a significant indicator they are an outstanding amateur who will infact go on to win a world title if they choose to turn Pro.