Best Winger in the World

So today I couldn't make it to go to Twickenham again because already I am a little bit wearsome of always the tube break down and train have "signal failure". So I stay home in the garden and watching on TV the barbarians play my new country of England.

And again I hear commentators mention that Chris Ashton is the best winger in the world and he prove today by score three more tries.

It is some good entertainment to watching the open game like this but I doubting that this kind of match up prove anything and maybe this commentator get a bit sun on his head.

Who agree with me about it?

I completely agree GG

One question that I am riddle about is this expression "GG". A lot of poster make ending the sentence reply with it.

What it means? I am ponder on Good Grief from Charlie Brown or something similar. But I check the google and still can't finding the answer.

Mmm, interesting

Can this claim be backed up with facts? They never can, it's just one man's view over another. Ashton ain't my cuppa, but many probably do think he is the 'worlds best'. I'd be to scared he was going to break his back if he was in my team.

GG means 'gods gift' to 606v2

Oh thank you for this explain. For me you are GG to do this EBOP!

I ask myself would he be an automatic selection on the wing for any other side? I'm not sure he would.

For instance: Would he be an automatic wing selection for the All Blacks. I doubt it. We rend to play one multi skilled player (e.g. Corey Jane) and at least one runner (e.g. Hosea Gear). I'm not sure he'd make the side given the depth we still have in wings.

Another thought: Would he be an automatic choice for the Lions. Would you pick him above the Welsh and Irish wings, or the Dutchman. Would another pom beat t5o the position.

Could people in future please not wilfully misinterpret what commentators have said.

IIRC Barnes said that in Autumn 2010 Ashton was in such good form that he considered him the best in the world at that time, and that it was good to see signs that he was getting back to that form. At no point did he describe Ashton as the current best in the world.

You've just gone and destroyed a perfectly good thread..................

thomh wrote:Could people in future please not wilfully misinterpret what commentators have said.

IIRC Barnes said that in Autumn 2010 Ashton was in such good form that he considered him the best in the world at that time, and that it was good to see signs that he was getting back to that form. At no point did he describe Ashton as the current best in the world.

so who is the best winger in the world? Habana, Digby or someone from the Northern Hemisphere? How do we rate Onozawa from Japan who has just got past 50 tries -just an average player who scores often due to playing mediocre sides?

thomh wrote:Could people in future please not wilfully misinterpret what commentators have said.

IIRC Barnes said that in Autumn 2010 Ashton was in such good form that he considered him the best in the world at that time, and that it was good to see signs that he was getting back to that form. At no point did he describe Ashton as the current best in the world.

He say (quote transcribed) "In Autum 2010 Chris Aston was universally regarded as the best winger in the world. Today he has shown he is back in similar form. If he can reproduce this form in South Africa he will unquestionably be considered in that regard again."

Except he don't really use the sentences there. I just put that in a bit like some good grammaticar for writing. Commentary was more wistfulish and continuing on. But I don't know or is it right to put "..." elipses in there by make way of the full stops because then is imply I remove some wordings. Is it correct?

On form with a good fly half Ashton is a try scorer. He runs fantastic lines....and his support play is excellent. Hes not the best winger in the world...but he is up there...as one of them....

Well he has pace, you give any player with pace enough space and he'll be a try scorer.

Not if they have no idea of running the right lines or being in the right support position. He. Reads the game well

GeordieFalcon wrote:On form with a good fly half Ashton is a try scorer. He runs fantastic lines....and his support play is excellent. Hes not the best winger in the world...but he is up there...as one of them....

Completely agree. People give him so much abuse because apparently all he does is 'receive a pass and run straight', but these people are obviously very narrow minded. Ashton's game revolves around his work off the ball, and getting himself into the right position to shred apart a defence. His work rate off the ball is phenomenal and he doesn't receive enough credit for that.

Sure, he's not the best in the world by a long way probably, but he does what is required of him to a very high standard.

Ok apologies if I misremembered, but I was pretty sure that he was talking about his own opinion.

Reckon Digby Ioane is class, wouldnt mind if he was born in nz

I remember seeing a lot of hype around Ashton, but when I saw him play, I couldn't see why but maybe it was just the game I watched. There must be something there and I'm sure he's not just the guy that does that funny dive.

Ashton is one of these players that people have decided they just dont like...ans I think its more about his perceived arrogance or personality...than his ability.

He's by no means my favorite player...but if he can continue scoring the tries for England then he'll do for me...

I agree with Digby. North will be up there in a few more seasons along with Cuthbert.

Can't knock Ashton with his try scoring abilty, all be it allot of the teams he scores the most tries against are against the minows (4 vs Italy) but a try is a try, however, he is nowhere near the best winger in the world.

Ashton runs great lines and theres a lot of players who can learn a thing or two from him but he is reliant on others creating the oppurtunity players like Nacewa at times create something out of nothing which is something he needs to do more of as he has the ability

Ashton's certainly not among the top wingers when it somes to beating a defender one-on-one, but he's definately in the top handful for workrate and being able to read a game and sense when a half break might happen.

Would he get into the NZ team? Probably not. Although I actually think he'd score a hat full of tries being able to feed off the half breaks of Nonu, SBW and others!

martyr_94 many people on here have said that he only scores against the minnows. Someone actually took the time to work out percentages of tries scored against top tier teams and the tri nations. If memory serves he has a higher percentage of tries scored against 3N teams than one Shane Williams and is only behind either Campo or Kirwan in that regard.

Its obvious that good wingers will score more against poorer quality but people seem to make out that this is the only time he scores tries, which frankly isnt true. Geordie is right when he points out that people have decided to dislike him and so will not give him any credit and constantly belittle his achievements.

I don't know why Quins didn't snap up Ashton. Could do with a high class winger to partner Monye and Brown in the back three.

Ashtons a good test standard winger, but a long way from being "the best winger in the world".

Hes a good test winger who will do very well if theirs a smart midfield who can distribute. He has searing pace and theres not really anyone in England you'd want to have hands on the ball more to finish an opportunity. His defense isnt a strong point.

In the world scheme of things, he'd struggle to make it into the current top 10 imo.

anotherworldofpain wrote:So today I couldn't make it to go to Twickenham again because already I am a little bit wearsome of always the tube break down and train have "signal failure". So I stay home in the garden and watching on TV the barbarians play my new country of England.

And again I hear commentators mention that Chris Ashton is the best winger in the world and he prove today by score three more tries.

It is some good entertainment to watching the open game like this but I doubting that this kind of match up prove anything and maybe this commentator get a bit sun on his head.

Who agree with me about it?

I think the commentator said he's the best whinger in the world mate

Ashton may struggle at Saracens next season when he doesnt have the like of Dickson and Foden opening the game up for him

My mind is he would benefit from season witn England 7s to learn about working rate, positional and one on one tackler in defending mode.

He scored more than Shane Williams did at the weekend, hes more better

Ashton is not the greatest one on one finisher in the 5 metre channel but he can certainly beat a man with some space, remember how he made Drew Mitchell look a bit silly when scoring 'that try'. And to say he cannot create something from nothing is plain incorrect. How many times has he turned innocuous looking half breaks into tries? He created Wigglesworth's try in the BaaBaa's game and would have finished that move as well if Wigglesworth had fixed the man and passed rather than stepping inside. That was something from nothing. There was a try last year against London Irish in the league where he picked it up from deep, arced around a few players, exchanged a few passes then flew off up the opposite wing to score. He is probably the most potent finisher in the world.

He might struggle at Saracens if he gets no service, but equally he could add a new dimension to their game, feeding off breaks made by guys like Brits and Joubert. He should also link up well with Goode, we saw some of Goode's skills yesterday in creating space for Wade and Joseph.

If I were selecting a World XV with everyone on their best relatively recent form I would be have Digby Ioane on the left wing and would struggle to choose between Ashton and Cory Jane on the right wing.

I know some have issues with his personality for whatever reason, but people who criticise him as a player have short memories. In 2011 he set the joint record for most tries in an individual 6N tournament and was joint top try scorer in the World Cup, despite playing in a bad side who were eliminated relatively early.

Ashtons going to struggle to make the starting lions squad imo. He should definitely be touring though (form/injury dependant of course).

how he could be considered as one of the best in the world is baffling, again imo. its all subjective depending on what you're looking for.

hes a very good winger at club level, and has the ability and potential to be a very good test winger for England, as he gets more understanding in union he'll improve. He'll also improve his defence at sarries, thats one thing they wont tolerate to be fair, everyone puts in their defensive shift.

Hes been hot and cold for england though, as he does seem to be at his best with a creative midfield which england have been lacking for a while now. Hes capable of creating for himself, no question, but again, thats too inconsistent to be considered anywhere near the top of the tree at world level.

he can come across badly on the pitch but ive never seen him come across as anything but a gent in his interviews to be fair to him.

North, Bowe, Cuthbert, Visser, Nacewa are all better than Ashton IMO and that's before we look at the french and SH wingers - Its all pretty subjective but when I heard Barnes say best in the world!!! I thought what the feck is he on about and that comment against a pourous Baa Baas back line - Strange comment indeed, the guy was anonomous in the 6 Nations and some english fans were calling for him to be dropped.

Bloody hell the deity Visser seems to appear in every article about wingers.

Surprised it took so long for Visser to be named actually.

North - sure,Bowe- sure,Cuthbert - debatable, Nacewa -difficult as he's got no international form.

Visser? On what grounds? He has no international form to speak of.

beshocked, ive learnt you're not allowed to question visser's dominance at test level on this forum.

Show me a world class winger and I'll show you one or maybe two world class centres!

Winger is a hard position to judge IMO, most wingers at some point of their career will look unstoppable until another guy comes along whose better.

I'd still rate Shane above Ashton as more often or not he makes an impact.

North also looks good but I can’t see him staying a winger over the course of his career, I am surprised to see people say Cuthbert is a world class winger! Not in a month of Sundays.

Apparently he is the second coming

It does seem that way Comfort. Some are very defensive of the new Scottish saviour that is Tim Visser. It's not as though there's been similar comments about brilliant attacking threats coming into the Scottish team in the past...

Hersh it's actually all about consistency and adaptability in my opinion as people eventually work player's out/target them.

Ashton's international strike rate is good. You can say he scores a lot of tries vs minnows but which wingers don't.

You mention ickle Shane. It's tough to say whether he's better but he's a big game player who rises to the occasion. Been around for ages now but still can put in a good shift. Someone like BOD is similar.

Both world class players who have proved themselves time and again.

Ashton is not yet on their level but he might get there.

I'm a welshman, you might not have noticed, and Tim Visser is a monster of a winger - I would expect him and North to be the Lions wingers. If someone can't judge a player because he has not played international rugby then that's their perogative, this guy is John Kirwan incarnate and Kirwan for me was one of the most destructive wingers in world rugby. I guess the rest of you will just have to wait and watch for Visser to enter the field of international rugby.

I think the Aussies have abundant class in this area. JOC if you play him there, Ioane, Mitchell and now it seems this Kiwi-born / Tongan origins Cooper Vuna. I think they have a lot of depth in this area.

NZ has depth but it seems it will be tested against the Irish as Jane and Kahui are out and we might have Gear and Savea who both are strong runners. Jane is a bit like Thorn - not the automatic choice for best in his position - but though I'd welcome Ioane with open arms into the team I think Jane is so reliable he's worth having in your team much like Conrad Smith.

SA have a lot of depth too but often use their wingers as chasers rather than as players released inside or on the touchline.

Wales and Ireland look pretty handy in this area and England undoubtedly have a man in Ashton who can score tries but he has yet to learn the task of scoring tries in the big games.

So I'd vote for Ioane based on the fact he is a winger that looks dangerous with every touch of the ball.

Ashton goes missing far too often for my likening

HERSH wrote:Ashton goes missing far too often for my likening

And you can cut those sensible posts right now mate or I'll get the MODS on you - It just aint right

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think the Aussies have abundant class in this area. JOC if you play him there, Ioane, Mitchell and now it seems this Kiwi-born / Tongan origins Cooper Vuna. I think they have a lot of depth in this area.

NZ has depth but it seems it will be tested against the Irish as Jane and Kahui are out and we might have Gear and Savea who both are strong runners. Jane is a bit like Thorn - not the automatic choice for best in his position - but though I'd welcome Ioane with open arms into the team I think Jane is so reliable he's worth having in your team much like Conrad Smith.

SA have a lot of depth too but often use their wingers as chasers rather than as players released inside or on the touchline.

Wales and Ireland look pretty handy in this area and England undoubtedly have a man in Ashton who can score tries but he has yet to learn the task of scoring tries in the big games.

So I'd vote for Ioane based on the fact he is a winger that looks dangerous with every touch of the ball.

Kia to be fair, no one really knows if we have good wingers or not.

RubyGuby wrote:I'm a welshman, you might not have noticed, and Tim Visser is a monster of a winger - I would expect him and North to be the Lions wingers. If someone can't judge a player because he has not played international rugby then that's their perogative, this guy is John Kirwan incarnate and Kirwan for me was one of the most destructive wingers in world rugby. I guess the rest of you will just have to wait and watch for Visser to enter the field of international rugby.

The worrying thing is that I can't tell if you're joking or not.

Ruby

Visser is a great finisher, but he can be exploited when turned. He has to up his defence for the international stage!

Also why is the OP using google translator to translate english to another language then back again to sound foreign? Who is it really?

RubyGuby wrote:North, Bowe, Cuthbert, Visser, Nacewa are all better than Ashton IMO and that's before we look at the french and SH wingers - Its all pretty subjective but when I heard Barnes say best in the world!!! I thought what the feck is he on about and that comment against a pourous Baa Baas back line - Strange comment indeed, the guy was anonomous in the 6 Nations and some english fans were calling for him to be dropped.

Let me add a few from the Top 14 - I wouldn't say Ashton is better than Nagusa (whom I think is the best in the NH along with Bowe, Williams and North), Huget, Malzieu or Medard and whilst his tracking is great, he isn't as quick as guys like Ngwenya or Tekori.

Can we please reign in the generalisations a little bit? Ashton simply has not replicated the form of last season and that is an unfortunate fact. Could he get his form back? Of course. Will he? Probably not in time for the summer internationals. He wouldn't be my first name on the team sheet.

Like I said to you the other day Biltong, we'd gladly take Habana to test that theory out. So much pace it's a crime he doesn't get to show it running off a pass into space.

I agree he is a bit like George North in defense but he is a truck and trailer in attack and I think he's the real deal and will get better with international exposure.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Like I said to you the other day Biltong, we'd gladly take Habana to test that theory out. So much pace it's a crime he doesn't get to show it running off a pass into space.

The contracts were ready, but...

I agree mate! He will get better and I cannot wait to see him in a Scotland shirt, he's Bowe but a touch quicker and more aggressive, plus he loves to put it about a bit. Not quite as rounded as Bowe though.

I'd say North has a slight defencive weakness in that he knows he's quicker and stronger than most, so he gives the opposition more of a chance than they should have, but he is definately not weak. He is however a teenager learning the game so I will give him that.

My favourite wings have to be North, Ioane, and Malzieu, very exciting when they get half a sniff all 3!

Ruby, Visser looks a very good winger, at club level.

Test level is a different animal like it or not, I imagine he'll do well at test level, but proclaiming him as the next Kirwan is way OTT for me.

I'll wait to see how he does against test backlines before giving him the player of the year award though