Tiriac:"When Federer plays it seems like he's playing the piano, while with Nadal is like he's playing the drums."

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FACT

barrystar wrote:

reckoner wrote:

barrystar wrote:You are right of course - 110% is a bit of an abomination and I should steer clear.

One thing I never do is to confuse an adjective with an adverb - I write too good for that.

Well I was surprised as usually your writing is unbelievable!

You missed a trick there, should have been "you write unbelievable", and unfortunately you used an adjective Tut tut.

you know, I thought that as soon as I'd posted it... I'll try harder next time!

Will you give it 120%?

at least!

seriously, what did Tiriac do for tennis? wikipedia is most uninformative!

reckoner wrote:seriously, what did Tiriac do for tennis? wikipedia is most uninformative!

What did the bleeding Romans do for us?

However the comments along the lines of the court doesn't allow me to play my particular brand of tennis simply doesn't wash with me and is in many ways reminiscent of the refusal of so many of the Spanish and South American contingent who would never come to Wimbledon back in the 70's and 80's because it didn't suit their game. Happily things have moved on since then and there is no better example (ironically) than Rafa himself in terms of proof that you can adapt when you're willing to put your mind to it rather than creating inner demons before you step on to court

......................

It was a long time before Andre Agassi played Wimbledon.. however a lot behind that decision is he thought it hoity toity and refused to be told he had to wear white... that was his reason whether it was secretly that he did not like the surface your guess is as good as mine

Me being my usual cynical (realistic) self is that as far as I can remember way back to the time he played Tiriac has always been concerned for Tiriac before tennis

Haddie-nuff wrote:Me being my usual cynical (realistic) self is that as far as I can remember way back to the time he played Tiriac has always been concerned for Tiriac before tennis

I'm sure that there's a lot in that - but the interests of Tiriac and tennis have coincided to an extent for quite a long time, and in wanting to make it an attractive spectacle and being prepared to put forward new ideas he's pretty useful, no? He's at least got a wider view than a player who's still in the trenches and whose all-consuming concern is his career. We've all agreed that nobody would give Tiriac his head completely, but chappies like him are a very useful ingredient in the stew. It would be far more worrying if he wanted to walk away from tennis because he couldn't see how to make it sufficiently attractive to make money.

Barry that is the bottom line isn´t to make tennis (something he knows a little about) more attractive in order to make money.
When he was interviewed in Madrid shown on Spanish tv .it was voice over in Spanish I heard him say Nadal and erm erm that other Spanish player. Well come on would you not think for someone interested in the tennis he would have had some idea of the names of other players apart from the top three. ???
No Im not giving him any credit thats true.. but I am and always have been suspicious of Tiriac´ s motives . I always like Nastase as a player and as a person but again I now view with suspicion his close assiciation with Tiriac

barrystar wrote:

reckoner wrote:seriously, what did Tiriac do for tennis? wikipedia is most uninformative!

What did the bleeding Romans do for us?

aqueduct.... sanitation and the roadss

but aparrtt from that... what have the romans ever done for us!??!

irrigation, medicine, education and the wine, public baths, safe to walk at night in the streets.

but apart from all that... WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US?

brought peace? .... brought peace ???? SHUT UP gotta it

I don't think we are miles apart - we wouldn't give him the keys - but both appreciate that he's trying to make tennis a money-making sport. I don't think any of the players object to that.

Dr. Johnson said, "Never are people more innocently employed than when they are making money". Well we wouldn't agree with that 100% of course, but any sport should welcome the participation of an innovative successful guy who's played a bit, been coach and manager to some of its most colourful stars and who has been a promotor or backer of a handful of tournaments. Welcoming participation does not mean you can't separate the wheat from the chaff of his ideas.

It does mean that the likes of Nadal and Djokovic need to do a bit better than threaten not to come back publicly unless everything is precisely to their liking, especially when he has acknowledged the need to address the most serious problem. Sometimes you wonder if the players realise that guys that organise tournaments create the stage on which the players make their money and are entitled to something in return.

I just can't help thinking (am I the only one ...??) that all this has become dramatically over-personalised with regards to what one man, Tiriac, has done and said.

I know so very little about Tiriac myself that I'm not inclined to make too many judgements about him one way or the other.

But I'm willing to bet that if Barcelona FC came over here to play Woodbridge Rovers (apologies to any fans if such a team exists ) that they would not find the pitch to their liking. But I'd also bet that Barca would comfortably win the match.

Now, obviously, neither Verdasco nor Tipsarevic are minnows of the tennis world, so the comparison is somewhat skewed ; but all the same .......

Apart from roads, sanitation, public order, wine and peace, what specifically has Tiriac done for tennis? Lots of vague suggestions that he has done amazing amounts for the game but very little specific information...

I saw bits of the Madrid open and I didn't see what the fuss was about. A bit fast for clay . Did federer and Murray object too?

Lags

I apoloise to anyone who has read my post on this before but I will say it one more time.
Madrid is every Spanish Tennis enthusiasts "Wimbledon"
You would agree would you not that the size of Spain is vast
Spain is at present in the deepest recession that you could possibly imagine.
So make this more personal... ME... I want to see Rafa play I cannot afford to see him play live in any other part of the world so I travel to Madrid... 500 miles away. I want to see him perform at his best (he wants to perform for all his Spanish fans in the Capital of his own country).. I find him scooting around on a blue ice rink like a fish out of water (he knows what I am seeing and all his fans are seeing) he is outraged.. and says so... right or wrong I am not going to defend or persecute him for it,. He did it end of ... a year is a long time in tennis and all things can and probably will change

Put it another way... A Scotsman travels all the way to Wimbledon to watch his man Andy Murray play.. he wants to see the boy play to the best of his ability... they have changed the courts to clay. (Please no Andy bashing if you dont mind)


It is my belief that whether Rafa and Nole had said publicly their intentions the Spanish people would still have whistled and jeered Tiriac they knew that the court did not suit "their boy" so Tiriac can blame those two as much as he likes the Spanish people would have made their feelings known I guarantee it.

coolpixel wrote:I saw bits of the Madrid open and I didn't see what the fuss was about. A bit fast for clay . Did federer and Murray object too?

Shows you didnt watch it Murray didnt even play :doh:

As far as I know he managed a few tennis players, and a few german tennis events. His wealth from creating a bank in Romania has allowed him to "buy" the Madrid Open. I dont know what all these other great things he's supposed to have done in tennis are. I read on wiki that tennis takes up 5% of his time.

reckoner wrote:Apart from roads, sanitation, public order, wine and peace, what specifically has Tiriac done for tennis? Lots of vague suggestions that he has done amazing amounts for the game but very little specific information...

I have been reliably informed that he invented the modern day tennis ball. Before Tiriac they used to play with painted grapefruits.

Also he invented the tennis net. Before Tiriac they used to play on either side of a trench with a metal railings on either side. Into the trench would go the defeated player with their heads removed and impaled onto the metal railings as a reminder as to what happens when not giving it 120%.[1]

Apparently this is all true.


[1] Before Tiriac, tennis followed the rules of fellow Romanian, Vlad the Impaler

Tiriac has moved from player to coach to svengali to promoter during his long and varied career. My main point is that he is one of the reasons why modern players make so much money, and they ought to be a bit more respectful of that.

This tells you about the birth of the Madrid event, he spotted a gap due to Spain's lack of a truly big tournament. He has very big ambitions for it and he's looking beyond the end of Nadal's career for sure and he's wanting it to rival the slams:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/09/sports/tennis/09iht-SRMADRID.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

In particular this:

“Respectfully, it’s not going to be a warm-up for Roland Garros,” Tiriac said. “It’s going to be a stand-on-its-own tournament."

You can see why he's ruffled a few conservative feathers.

This is rather a colourful piece about him

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/24/garden/at-wimbledon-with-ion-tiriac-tennis-s-grandest-bad-boy.html?src=pm

Well I'm a bit unimpressed at what I've read of Tiriac's contribution to the great game thus far. coolpixel, I believe Federer was not particularly keen on the surface and said as much. However he didn't throw all his toys out of the pram unlike some lol.

... this was posted before barrystar posted his article...

Haddie-nuff wrote:Lags

I apoloise to anyone who has read my post on this before but I will say it one more time.
Madrid is every Spanish Tennis enthusiasts "Wimbledon"
You would agree would you not that the size of Spain is vast
Spain is at present in the deepest recession that you could possibly imagine.
So make this more personal... ME... I want to see Rafa play I cannot afford to see him play live in any other part of the world so I travel to Madrid... 500 miles away. I want to see him perform at his best (he wants to perform for all his Spanish fans in the Capital of his own country).. I find him scooting around on a blue ice rink like a fish out of water (he knows what I am seeing and all his fans are seeing) he is outraged.. and says so... right or wrong I am not going to defend or persecute him for it,. He did it end of ... a year is a long time in tennis and all things can and probably will change

Put it another way... A Scotsman travels all the way to Wimbledon to watch his man Andy Murray play.. he wants to see the boy play to the best of his ability... they have changed the courts to clay. (Please no Andy bashing if you dont mind)


It is my belief that whether Rafa and Nole had said publicly their intentions the Spanish people would still have whistled and jeered Tiriac they knew that the court did not suit "their boy" so Tiriac can blame those two as much as he likes the Spanish people would have made their feelings known I guarantee it.

Sorry but I think this is all nonsense. ....Someone else would probably want to see Delpotro or Berdich or Federer playing at their very best and this is not probably on the slow dirt conditions.

Furthermore: didn't you know there is Barcelona also for the amateur of the grind ....ehrm defensive style.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Lags

I apoloise to anyone who has read my post on this before but I will say it one more time.
Madrid is every Spanish Tennis enthusiasts "Wimbledon"
You would agree would you not that the size of Spain is vast
Spain is at present in the deepest recession that you could possibly imagine.
So make this more personal... ME... I want to see Rafa play I cannot afford to see him play live in any other part of the world so I travel to Madrid... 500 miles away. I want to see him perform at his best (he wants to perform for all his Spanish fans in the Capital of his own country).. I find him scooting around on a blue ice rink like a fish out of water (he knows what I am seeing and all his fans are seeing) he is outraged.. and says so... right or wrong I am not going to defend or persecute him for it,. He did it end of ... a year is a long time in tennis and all things can and probably will change

Put it another way... A Scotsman travels all the way to Wimbledon to watch his man Andy Murray play.. he wants to see the boy play to the best of his ability... they have changed the courts to clay. (Please no Andy bashing if you dont mind)


It is my belief that whether Rafa and Nole had said publicly their intentions the Spanish people would still have whistled and jeered Tiriac so Tiriac can blame those two as much as he likes the Spanish people would have made their feelings known I guarantee it.

Everyone agrees the surface was not up to puff, everyone has said it and Tiriac has acknowledged it. That's a shame of course - but it's possible for a grown man to criticize it and to keep the dummy in.

My criticism of Nadal's reaction is precisely because it seems to have come out of the school you describe as,

they knew that the court did not suit "their boy"

. Well stuff that attitude - so long as the surface is not dangerous it 'suits' everyone in the sense that a pro tennis player should be able to play on it. It's still not clear whether it was unsafe or not to me. An international tennis tournament should have a safe surface, but it is not supposed to suit the host's best player.

Im not going to go into the different styles of play being more conducive to one kind of surface than the that as been done to death on this subject anyway.
But I will say I find your response both offensive and rude.. your normal style it has to be said. You consider Spanish tennis enthusiasts "amateurs" !!!! I should try keeping up if I were you. The Spanish are very knowledgeable about their tennis especially the Madreleños bearing in mind they have two local boys in the Spanish Armada. Tiriac should remember them at least

The above post Barry is not to you

barrystar - that was an excellent article on Tiriac - thanks for that!

Haddie-nuff wrote:Im not going to go into the different styles of play being more conducive to one kind of surface than the that as been done to death on this subject anyway.
But I will say I find your response both offensive and rude.. your normal style it has to be said. You consider Spanish tennis enthusiasts "amateurs" !!!! I should try keeping up if I were you. The Spanish are very knowledgeable about their tennis especially the Madreleños bearing in mind they have two local boys in the Spanish Armada. Tiriac should remember them at least

Still howling with outrage at nothing I see.

"An amateur (French amateur "lover of", from Old French and ultimately from Latin amatorem nom. amator, "lover") is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science"

Nadal the money grabbing monstrosity couldn't even be bothered when Verdasco started fighting back!

Blue Clay > Red Martian Sand

When my father-in-law asks me, "si tu es un amateur pour une coupe", it's not because he thinks I am bad at drinking champagne

"money grabbing monstrosity"...lol - this thread has now 110% officially lost it

barrystar wrote:When my father-in-law asks me, "si tu es un amateur pour une coupe", it's not because he thinks I am bad at drinking champagne

Well, barry most people know what the word means... LOL

lydian wrote:"money grabbing monstrosity"...lol - this thread has now 110% officially lost it

That sort of stuff creeps in when there's not a great deal more to say...

barrystar wrote:

lydian wrote:"money grabbing monstrosity"...lol - this thread has now 110% officially lost it

That sort of stuff creeps in when there's not a great deal more to say...

true... plus it is almost going home time and I have tomorrow off woooooooooooooo la dolce vita!

So how many of you think the ATP will sanction the blue clay again next year?

They have a difficult decision...make themselves look silly for agreeing to it this year if a 'no', or risk further fallout if a 'yes'.
I read that the ATP committee was for the first time in 6 years evenly split when voting on the issue for changing the colour...it took the deciding vote of the ex-President Helfant to say yes to "blue" - after he had received assurances it would perform the same as red clay. Assurances? Blimey, I'm sure Greece assured the European Central Bank they would pay the borrowed money back...

Well as it cost twice as much as the red stuff I'm sure they'll agree to it getting more than one outing - more expensive = better, right?

Nice one reckoner...will you have time to watch the tennis live on TV?

Tiriac has no understanding or appreciation of tennis music as this quote and the laying of those unsound blue courts demonstrate. If he did he would recognise that Federer is quite capable of playing the drums and Nadal is also accomplished on the piano...

lydian wrote:Nice one reckoner...will you have time to watch the tennis live on TV?

Y'know I just might!! I shall watch with a nice buratta basil & tomato salad to celebrate Eeeeeetaly, roll on Friday!

lydian wrote:So how many of you think the ATP will sanction the blue clay again next year?

They have a difficult decision...make themselves look silly for agreeing to it this year if a 'no', or risk further fallout if a 'yes'.
I read that the ATP committee was for the first time in 6 years evenly split when voting on the issue for changing the colour...it took the deciding vote of the ex-President Helfant to say yes to "blue" - after he had received assurances it would perform the same as red clay. Assurances? Blimey, I'm sure Greece assured the European Central Bank they would pay the borrowed money back...

I'd like to think that if some proper work is done on the surface performance they'd say yes again, but will be very strict about evidence of the performance. That would probably require another tournament to have been carried out successfully on a blue surface. Do we know whether it was agreed only for 1 year? Tiriac is determined and he's quite good at getting his way.

hawkeye wrote:Tiriac has no understanding or appreciation of tennis music as this quote and the laying of those unsound blue courts demonstrate. If he did he would recognise that Federer is quite capable of playing the drums and Nadal is also accomplished on the piano...

Tiriac got to the last 8 in Wimbledon and used to eat champagne flutes so I quite respect his opinion.

Nice one! Should be some cracking matches tomorrow...Nole vs JMPD/Tsonga, maybe Fed vs Stan, Ferrer vs Gasquet/Andy (they're 3-3 and played 40 mins!), Berdy vs Nadal.

oh yes lydian it will be ALL good!! suppose it is too much to wish for sun...

Dont know about the contract Barry but Tiriac has said he's not performing administrative duties next year...he "just" owns the tournament now, others will run it.

I think they should have rolled it out at a 250 event first before going for a huge splash like this. I know Tiriac wants Madrid Open to be the 5th major but its never going to happen...they used to say that about the Lipton (Miami) but in reality it was just another HC event, and is now just another Masters. The majors are the majors. End of - even Tiriac's billions cant buy the title of "major". It will still be seen as a warm-up to the French as long as its a clay event in May.

hawkeye

Nadal would have to play more than 1 key to be a piano player...

Probably reckoner...as they say 2 out of 3 aint bad (1 holiday + 2 tennis...3 cloud)

Josiah Maiestas wrote:hawkeye

Nadal would have to play more than 1 key to be a piano player...

Sigh... Someone else who is tone deaf...

Isnt it about time you changed tune as well JM...lol
You know you like him really...

Yeah I mean Europe already has 2 slams - if you were going to tinker with the slams it'd make sense to put one in S. America / Africa / Asia to increase global appeal one would think.

Karlovic has the most exciting game in ATP history.

lydian wrote:
I think they should have rolled it out at a 250 event first before going for a huge splash like this. I know Tiriac wants Madrid Open to be the 5th major but its never going to happen...they used to say that about the Lipton (Miami) but in reality it was just another HC event, and is now just another Masters. The majors are the majors. End of - even Tiriac's billions cant buy the title of "major". It will still be seen as a warm-up to the French as long as its a clay event in May.

I agree with that - and if there's a "second" clay tournament it's quite clearly Rome which lacks nothing for history. Madrid has a chance of being more prominent than Miami because it's one of a kind in it's host country, but that will take time.

The great thing about Karlovic is being called "Dr Ivo"...sounds and looks abit like some spin off from Dr Jekyll!