Nadal Will Not Play On Blue "Clay" Again

According to this tweet Nadal has issued an ultimatum to Tiriac. If Madrid courts remain blue he will not play.

If it doesn't change next year, there will be one less tournament in my schedule.

http://twitter.com/#!/neilharmantimes

It would be great if Monte Carlo followed suit and went blue let's have quick tennis back on the schedule. Cry baby!

More dignified stuff from Nadal.

Is there anyone left still buying the 'humble champion' act?

HE.. how come Frenando won the same 'blue' clay in the 14th try. Should he say he will not play Madrid unless the clay is blue?

Just one loss, and this type of statement reflects very badly. Also very badly on not giving credit to Verdasco to come back from a deficit.

Nadal led 5-2 in the deciding set and twice served for the match.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/05/19/Madrid-Thursday-Berdych-Tops-Monfils-Nadal-In-Action.aspx

To be fair LF, Nadal a few times in his interview that the better man on the day won. He didnt ascribe the loss to the court. But all that said I think we all know Nadal has been the staunchest critic of this surface from its inception. He clearly hates the stuff, hasnt felt comfortable on it so has now made his thoughts clear by boycotting the event in future if it stays the same.

What if Ferrer now loses to Almagro when he's 9-0 H2H...these courts are sure turning whats expected on its head. Surely Stan wont....

What IS the difference? Please don't say 'different colour'........

Not sure BB. I've heard some say the layer of clay is too thin on top of a cement hardcourt base, and for some reason the dressing doesnt act as normal, rather than acting as grit on top of the clay its acting as ball bearings so clearly something is different.
The clay itself shouldnt be the same as its basically had iron oxide removed, and blue dye added.

What's your take on the difference between Madrid and other clay courts?

Tiriac himself has admitted that it is more slippery, but he anticipates it can be fixed. Apart from the colour, that is the key difference, IMO.

Quite a bit of discussion here... https://www.606v2.com/t28510-it-s-blue

(There was a link to the methodology and preparation steps in this one, IIRC).

I posted a link somewhere too LF. At the end of the day Djokovic and Nadal are the two fastest/best movers on tour, and its both of them seemingly who hate the surface the most given that movement is the key foundation of their games...they clearly feel they cant move on it as normal.

You do wonder how they didnt know it was this slippery as they were developing the surface. I guess all its done is create a weird, anomaly event on the tour calendar. An interesting spectacle no doubt though...

bogbrush wrote:What IS the difference? Please don't say 'different colour'........

This is what Djokovic had to say about blue "clay".

''To me that's not tennis. Either I come out with football shoes or I invite Chuck Norris to advise me how to play on this court,'' said Djokovic, who like Rafael Nadal has been critical of the new-look surface. ''Center court is impossible to move on. I hit five balls throughout the whole match. With everything else, I was just trying to keep the ball in the court.''


''When you slide on the red clay you have a feeling you can stop and recover from that step. But here, whatever you do ... you are always slipping,'' said Djokovic, who hit 20 winners to 24 unforced errors. ''Not a single player - not woman not man - I didn't hear anyone say 'I like blue clay.'''

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=17562&zoneid=4

So the answer is it is not just about the colour...

I have to admit that I am not a fan of the whole blue clay. Seriously are we going to have purple grass next?

I think Nadal is being melodramatic. It's a defeat. We all lose at some time and I think maybe a silent response would've ticked more dignified boxes.

Blue clay is given a try for the first time, its to bad to be so critical of it straight away, with time what ever the slippery problem is will be sorted out.

It shouldn't be changed just coz players didnt like it, it should be changed if the problem mentioned cannot be addressed. Hope the administrators look into the issue seriously and test the surface with some small tournaments in it with some challenger series before its unveiled next year.

In the poll that I put up yesterday, Tiriac has stated his side of the case. If the surface characteristics (apart from the colour) are no different than clay of another colour, than it is not useful.

IIRC, Djokovic has stated somewhere that the 'practice' courts and the show courts play differently. That, to me is a larger issue, because the players need to acclimatize themselves before a match.

Watching the matches, some players seem to have adjusted better than others, losers and winners alike.

laverfan wrote:HE.. how come Frenando won the same 'blue' clay in the 14th try. Should he say he will not play Madrid unless the clay is blue?

Just one loss, and this type of statement reflects very badly. Also very badly on not giving credit to Verdasco to come back from a deficit.

Nadal led 5-2 in the deciding set and twice served for the match.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/05/19/Madrid-Thursday-Berdych-Tops-Monfils-Nadal-In-Action.aspx

laverfan

Verdasco shouldn't say anything but he should of course enjoy his victory. On the other 13 attempts to beat Nadal he didn't play on blue clay (including his 6-0 6-4 loss just a few days ago on "real" clay) so I can imagine that if he has any influence over Tiriac he would be pushing for it to remain blue. Did you see him kneel and kiss the court at the end? From what Nadal says however he will never get a second victory over Nadal on this surface and neither will anyone else.

IMO Nadal should never have played Madrid in the first place. I am sort of hoping that Tiriac stubbonly refuses to change and that Nadal will have a good excuse not to play.

I know you dislike Nadal but can you imagine if Wimbledon decided to "experiment" with a new red sort of grass in an attempt to get a bit more publicity and it played exactly like clay?

Just found a more complete quote from Nadal. I can remember the good old days when we got to see interview transcripts...

"Being able to move is very important for me and if I can't move well, I can't hit the ball well either," said Nadal, a two-time Madrid champion. "If things don't change, this will be one less tournament on the calendar for me.

"This surface destabilizes the game. It is a completely different game and I don't want to take risks."


http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=17597&zoneid=4

hawkeye wrote:Verdasco shouldn't say anything but he should of course enjoy his victory. On the other 13 attempts to beat Nadal he didn't play on blue clay (including his 6-0 6-4 loss just a few days ago on "real" clay) so I can imagine that if he has any influence over Tiriac he would be pushing for it to remain blue.

You are showing a clear bias and are unwilling to accept the fact that 'other' players have adjusted, whether they dislike the surface or not.

hawkeye wrote:Did you see him kneel and kiss the court at the end? From what Nadal says however he will never get a second victory over Nadal on this surface and neither will anyone else.

Yes, I did. After 13 tries, he did savour victory. Do not be so sure about the second part of your statement.

hawkeye wrote:IMO Nadal should never have played Madrid in the first place. I am sort of hoping that Tiriac stubbonly refuses to change and that Nadal will have a good excuse not to play.

It is like saying Djokovic should not have played MC (and SoCal just did that). Why not let the players make that decision? Are they not the best judge of their schedule, no matter how their respective fans opine?

hawkeye wrote:I know you dislike Nadal but can you imagine if Wimbledon decided to "experiment" with a new red sort of grass in an attempt to get a bit more publicity and it played exactly like clay?

Wimbledon has already experimented and changed their grass, purple or not, so has the USO and AO (from green to blue, IIRC - you can verify if you like - http://vault.australianopentv.com/).

I have never disliked Nadal and have no morbid rabidity against any Tennis player (including the underpaid Stakhovsky ). You are drawing your conclusions based on my viewpoint being different than yours. See Lydian's comment and my followup about 'practice' vs 'show' courts being different.

I just hope Nole finishes off Wawrinka and finds an excuse not to play further. What, they should break their neck there and then to please the fans and organizers?

No, it's not the same Nadal playing on this blue court and Verdasco playing on this same court. Nadal has sacrificed more for his career and his life for this sport and should not play on it again. Same applies to Nole. Those how did not accomplish anything yet, can be my guest and take a chance.

touch(A)parabola wrote:I just hope Nole finishes off Wawrinka and finds an excuse not to play further. What, they should break their neck there and then to please the fans and organizers?

No, it's not the same Nadal playing on this blue court and Verdasco playing on this same court. Nadal has sacrificed more for his career and his life for this sport and should not play on it again. Same applies to Nole. Those how did not accomplish anything yet, can be my guest and take a chance.

What happens if Tiriac and Madrid organisers fix the slipperiness issue and still keep the court blue? Should Nadal play or not?

There is saying where I come from... 'Do not cut the hand that feeds you'.

Who knows LF....
With his history at Madrid ('only' won it once since it went to clay) it isnt a great loss to his season by and large. He's never liked the clay at Madrid, even less so now, and his clay season you feel revolves around winning MC/Barca, Rome then RG. The loss gives additional time off to rest, adjust back to the normal clay, etc. BTW - I have a feeling that Nadal wont give Verdasco much respect the next time they play...I think he was pretty miffed that Fernando stayed lying down on the ground for so long after the win keeping him waiting at the net. Anyway, I dont think Nadal will ascribe much importance to the loss though, and next year he'll be getting on for 27...he may start dropping events...Fed has dropped MC...Rafa drops Madrid.

All together now:

"Blue is the colour
tennis is the game
he's just a sore loser
so let's use this surface again
boo him on through the sun and rain
because Rafa, Rafa is a pain"

newballs wrote:All together now:

"Blue is the colour
tennis is the game
he's just a sore loser
so let's use this surface again
boo him on through the sun and rain
because Rafa, Rafa is a pain"

looking forward to munich?

nice song btw

laverfan wrote:

touch(A)parabola wrote:I just hope Nole finishes off Wawrinka and finds an excuse not to play further. What, they should break their neck there and then to please the fans and organizers?

No, it's not the same Nadal playing on this blue court and Verdasco playing on this same court. Nadal has sacrificed more for his career and his life for this sport and should not play on it again. Same applies to Nole. Those how did not accomplish anything yet, can be my guest and take a chance.

What happens if Tiriac and Madrid organisers fix the slipperiness issue and still keep the court blue? Should Nadal play or not?

There is saying where I come from... 'Do not cut the hand that feeds you'.

What's with blue? How about football to be played on a pink pained grass? Or swimmers to swim in a salted water colored in yellow? Would you advise Andy to play Madrid the next year on blue court?

Let's be honest. Nadal was always going to use that excuse if he lost a match here.

If he'd won the event, he'd have nothing but good stuff to say about blue clay.

It's just the way Nadal works. When he loses, he needs an excuse that implies that he is the better player but circumstances were against him.

touch(A)parabola wrote:

laverfan wrote:

touch(A)parabola wrote:I just hope Nole finishes off Wawrinka and finds an excuse not to play further. What, they should break their neck there and then to please the fans and organizers?

No, it's not the same Nadal playing on this blue court and Verdasco playing on this same court. Nadal has sacrificed more for his career and his life for this sport and should not play on it again. Same applies to Nole. Those how did not accomplish anything yet, can be my guest and take a chance.

What happens if Tiriac and Madrid organisers fix the slipperiness issue and still keep the court blue? Should Nadal play or not?

There is saying where I come from... 'Do not cut the hand that feeds you'.

What's with blue? How about football to be played on a pink pained grass? Or swimmers to swim in a salted water colored in yellow? Would you advise Andy to play Madrid the next year on blue court?

Nadal complained that Madrid is already a difficult tournament as it is, because it is played 550 metres above sea level. He sees no need to add a surface he does not know, although that is partly due to the fact that in 2009-11 he refused to train on the blue clay court that organizers provided for all players to use.

Djokovic and Federer refused to try it too, although Andy Roddick did use it.

It was available for practice.

http://www.sportlive.co.za/tennis/2012/05/04/madrid-open-wants-good-faith-from-stars-on-blue-clay

No complaints after his comprehensive win over Davydenko in the previous round.

From his post-match press conference (ATP reporter) :

"I played much better than I expected," said Nadal. "I am very happy to be in the third round and tomorrow I will probably have a very difficult match against [Fernando] Verdasco"

From 5-2 15-0, Verdasco's first break back is achieved using points won on errors.

The missed OH at 5-2 15-0 and watching Nadal walk back is stooped shoulders and negative energy. I have not seen that before, not even in the AO 2012 final.

laverfan wrote:From 5-2 15-0, Verdasco's first break back is achieved using points won on errors.

The missed OH at 5-2 15-0 and watching Nadal walk back is stooped shoulders and negative energy. I have not seen that before, not even in the AO 2012 final.

You havn't seen that before because Nadal has never had to play on such an unstable surface before. This is what he said afterwoods (link with my earlier comment)

"Being able to move is very important for me and if I can't move well, I can't hit the ball well either

"This surface destabilizes the game. It is a completely different game and I don't want to take risks."

Like it or not Nadal is probably... no not probably. Nadal is the best clay court player ever and I certainly don't blame him for emitting negative energy when struggling in such conditions. But don't worry you won't see him do this again because he won't play on blue "clay" again...

Now I really am off...

"Next year there will be one less tournament in my calendar."

Losing to Verdasco has really bitten him HARD. :p

Josiah Maiestas wrote:"Next year there will be one less tournament in my calendar."

Losing to Verdasco has really bitten him HARD. :p

Federer never reacted like this when he lost to his Bunny at Miami . Players have to understand their bunny is a very good player too eventhough they are bunny to them.

hawkeye wrote:Like it or not Nadal is probably... no not probably. Nadal is the best clay court player ever and I certainly don't blame him for emitting negative energy when struggling in such conditions. But don't worry you won't see him do this again because he won't play on blue "clay" again...
Now I really am off...

The debate is not about what he has achieved in the past nor what he has done for the sport. For example, the 8-MCs-in-a-row will be good record for a long time. He has lost to Djokovic on clay before, so this is nothing new to him. The challenge now is to 'adjust' to the changing world around him, where younger players or his peers will challenge him, and he will have good and bad days at the office.

You do not know what is to come in the future, there may be a better clay courter in the future.

What Nadal brings to the court should be enjoyed. Kipling's IF is a great reminder to the fans of players, who need to see the humanity of such exceptional players.

It is ironic that Nadal is at logger-heads with a Spanish tournament. He was a member of the Player's Council at ATP so this specific change would have been well discussed and understood. As I pointed out, this has been on the table since 2009.

This is an intereting article directed to all those who are of the belief that Rafa is Uncle T´s puppet.... clearly this is not the case.. and as I suspected since reading his Autobiography that from here iin it never will be.


http://gototennis.com/2012/05/10/nadal-sees-red-after-loss-uncle-toni-seethes-blue/

Lydian. So Rafa had to wait for a long time at the net while Verdasco rolled in the blue stuff. Praps Verd was just getting his own back from the interminable waits he and others have at the net at the start while Rafa arranges his water bottles.
I was quite shocked to see Rafa 5-2 up with two serves for the match and lose. Rafa is a great player and has achieved much. But he's got to realise that players have to play on all kinds of different surfaces.
He says he doesn't like the hard cos it's tough on the body. But you can't have every tournament on his favourite surface. He's fortunate that Wimbledon is now so slow. Listen to what Pat Cash had to say about Wimbledon in the late 80s. He said the surface was awful and you just had to come in or be beaten by the poor bounces.

laverfan wrote:
Kipling's IF is a great reminder to the fans of players, who need to see the humanity of such exceptional players.

my favourite poem

i can remember most of it off by heart.

my fav bit is:

If you can dream and not make dreams your master,
if you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat these two impostors just the same

I will normally leap to Rafael Nadal's defence however here I cannot see how he can blame the surface for the defeat. If it were a straight sets defeat then yes I would agree with him. However, he was serving for the match at 5-2 up and blue it. Only himself to blame and not the court. If this was a lesser player people would be insisting he choked.

I must say Nadal is coming over as a bit of a sore loser after this loss. He really should have kept it short and sweet, congratulated Verdasco and changed his schedule for next year without crying to the press.

Djokovic is almost as bad - if you don't like the surface, don't play the tournament - I'm sure the organisers would get the message!

What a pair of crybabies.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I will normally leap to Rafael Nadal's defence however here I cannot see how he can blame the surface for the defeat. If it were a straight sets defeat then yes I would agree with him. However, he was serving for the match at 5-2 up and blue it. Only himself to blame and not the court. If this was a lesser player people would be insisting he choked.

I agree, CC - and I think he clearly did choke!

I agree with both of you... wow surprise I hear you cry.
For once Toni was right . if he felt there was a problem he should not have played and neither should Djokovic

More than choking in that match against Verdasco (or blaming the blue clay)
How do you account for his magnificent exhibition against Davydenko thats the bit thats puzzling me. It was the same blue clay
Whatever ...Rafa you know you should have won that match yesterday.. It was the worst display of Rafa tennis I have ever had the misfortune to watch

There now I expect three cheers lol

I don't think he choked per se. He was awful throughout the match. His level didn't really drop at the end. It was more that he gave nando some hope and that raised nando's level from worse than awful (first half of the third set) to actually pretty decent. Nando playing throughout at the level he attained at the end of the match would have beaten yesterday's rafa in straights.

reckoner wrote:Djokovic is almost as bad - if you don't like the surface, don't play the tournament - I'm sure the organisers would get the message!

What a pair of crybabies.

Looking at Djokovic' body language yesterday, he would have been a bad loser too had he lost that match against Wawrinka.

After all the success he's had, it seems to me that he struggles to take losses as a man. Looking for excuses too much (blue clay, family issues, Isner's aces) IMHO. Sometimes the opponent is simply too strong.

Good to hear we agree on this Haddie-nuff!

Born Slippy, IMO holding two match points and not wiinning against a guy you own = choking.

I really don't see why the pair of them didn't just refuse to continue in the tournament if the surface is such a problem. It seems a reasonable thing to say I am not comfortable playing on this surface due to risk of injury?

I will add however that Nando would have been more at home on that court.. his favourite surface is hard-court and he is a local boy raised on the hard courts of Madrid. That being said I agree with what you say but it is some small consolation for me that Nando broke the spell he must be feeling somewhat chuffed today. I hope that confidence gets him through to the final

you did watch it right? so many horrible, basic forehand errors he did choke imho, nando improved but if he played like he had to get that lead he would of won through.

Not only did he lose but he lost from 5-2 up I thought Nadal was meant to be this mentally strong animal who could only lose to a good server (Verdasco 9 double faults)

prostaff85 wrote:

reckoner wrote:Djokovic is almost as bad - if you don't like the surface, don't play the tournament - I'm sure the organisers would get the message!

What a pair of crybabies.

Looking at Djokovic' body language yesterday, he would have been a bad loser too had he lost that match against Wawrinka.

After all the success he's had, it seems to me that he struggles to take losses as a man. Looking for excuses too much (blue clay, family issues, Isner's aces) IMHO. Sometimes the opponent is simply too strong.

When things aren't going his way Djokovic can get very petulant - it's something I thought he grew out of in his annus mirabilis but I guess old habits die hard. Bit harsh to include his recent bereavement in there as that was a one off IMO (I assume that's what you mean by family issues?) but do agree overall.

Tell you what, I'm not a fan of the smurf blue personally, but it certainly is generating interest and controversy... I guess Tiriac is a billionaire for a reason.

You're right that was maybe too harsh but my point was that I cannot remember the last time he lost without having some sort of excuse (Fognini gave a walk-over, the season is too long, Isner serves too many aces, my thought were somewhere else, the court is so slippery). OK he hasn't lost on the blue clay yet, but I'm sure that if he does, he'll use it as an excuse.

Shhhh don't mention the Foginini thing lest we have another 10 page "debate" about how more rest reduces your chances of winning.

Maybe SFP...I'm not placing judgement on it, rather than Nadal didnt look impressed by Verdasco's long lie down in the clay.

Interesting link Haddie...clearly none of the players are really happy with it, and I suspect Nadal does now regret entering the event. Something is clearly amiss when the guy usually bagels Verdasco on clay but is then suddenly embroiled in a close 3 set match. Anyway, he'll put the loss to one side and move on. Lets hope as Novak says no-one gets injured as the event runs forward because over the next few days its going to get very hot and as the top players face each other there will be more and more running going on...

Bad loser he may be, but did he say he's not going to play the tournament he lost in next year, straight after getting humbled? He smashes a few racquets to relieve a loss, not talk craap in the media like a diva.

Maybe Nadal is having Federer's 2008 decline, if he loses Rome early then it would really damage his RG chance.