Heineken Cup Semi Finals

First topic message reminder :

Gloucester vs Sale Sharks
at Twickenham
Heavy Rain , 12mph wind , 12 degrees.

Gloucester
Manager – Mat

01. Guthro Steenkamp	09. Will Genia
02. Joe Grey	10. Dan Carter
03. Nicola Mas
04. Richie Grey	11. Charlie Sharples
05. George Robson	12. berrick barnes
06. Stephen Ferris	13. Richard Kahui
07. Andy Saull	14. JSD
08. Immanol Harinordoqouy	15. Israel Dagg

16. Nick Wood 17. Darren Dawiduik 18. Julian White 19. Tom Palmer 20. Willem Alberts 21. Connor Murray 22. Johnny May 23. Julien Bonnaire

---

Gloucester go in to this game raring to get in the final. We beat this opposition last week and have freshened up in a few key positions for what is going to be a fairly attritional game in heavy heavy rain. Dan Carter comes back in to ten where his experience and game management will be to the fore.

We go in to this game with serious momentum and also the psychological edge of beating sale last week.

Set Piece

We have gone for a strong scrummaging front 5 and Stennkamp Grey and Mas will be looking to get after there opponents. With the power of robson and grey we will look to maintain steady ball for ourselves with a slight wheel to pick up and try and disrupt their ball.

Lineout.

This will be a key key area of the game as there will be a lot of kicking. We have gone for 5 jumpers and in grey, Robson and hari we think we have an amazing artillery to go after this side of the game.

We will be looking to drive the ball for territory on our own ball to create a platform to move off with runners or to allow genia and carter to dictate the play.

On Sale ball we will be looking to steal or disrupt to affect the flow of possession and also to create panic in their ranks. If they win the ball we want it to be messy or tapped and for Saull, genia, Ferris etc to stream through and put further pressure on.

In conditions such as this you need experience and know how and gloucester have this in abundance.

Generally forwards will be looking to maintain possession and get dominant field position. this will involve a slow possesion based game with lots of kicking for field position and looking to utilise our lineout to pressure further. The bench will play a key role in this game and we have gone for a ball carrying bench to continue the onslaught with Alberts, Wood, palmer and Bonnaire all being brought on to complement our relentless ball carrying style.

Control the ball and you control the game in the wet. With this pack and our spine of 8,9,10 we expect to be able to do this comfortably.

Backs.

8,9,10 are the key to controling any game particularly in the wet. we have arguably the best 8,9,10 in the world in each position and see this as the key to our success.

Genia will be getting good quality ball from the pack and will be looking to give Carter an armchair ride. genia will be used to box kick where necessary with our back 3 chasing to put pressure on.

generally in our half he will look to hit carter who will be looking to pin in behind the sale back 3 and force them to kick it back. if they go for touch we will get field position and the chance to win our own throw. IF they miss touch we have the skills to counter attack or the ability to maintain possession work field postion and go again. We see the sale back 3 as not having much of a kicking game and will look to pressure this. Abendanons first instinct is to run

Carter will certainly test out the sale back 3 under the high ball. Also he will look to hit forwards of the shoulder and to hit kahui into Hooks channel and try and get runners on the shoulder.

Whilst it heavy conditions we will run it when on and not be afraid to counter attack.

We also have a side packed with kickers out of hand in Barnes, cartetr and daggin our 22 where right we will get dagg to use his massive boot for distance to touch. dagg will also kick penalties to touch when it is on his right side. Barnes will come in to first receiver when necessary to offer a different option and keep their defence guessing.

Both Sharples and JSD have played full back and so allow us to be solid under the high ball


Bench is the key in the wet and we have gone 6-2 we will look to utilise bonnaire, wood, Palmer, Alberts etc to have a great effect.


Key points

Supreme lineout options
rock steady scrum
Leaders all over the field with great experience
best 8,9,10 spine in the game
Impact carrying bench.


Sale Sharks
Manager – SJE

01. Marcos Ayerza	09. Danny Care
02. David Paice	10. Johnny Sexton
03. Davit Zirakishvilli
04. Alun Wyn Jones	11. David Strettle
05. Andries Bekker	12. James Hook
06. Adam Thomson	13. Robbie Freuen
07. Peter O'Mahony	14. Luke Rooney
08. Louis Picamoles	15. Nick Abendanon

16. Nathan Catt 17. Guilleme Guirado 18. Luc Ducalcon 19. Christian Day 20. Matt Kvesic 21. Ben Spencer 22. Aaron Cruden 23. Jordan Turner Hall

---

General Game Plan:

We will use our strong carriers to attack in groups at gaps and half gaps in the Gloucester line, looking to get over the gain line and keep our forward momentum going. Care will look to play around the fringes and tie up the Gloucester back row with his sniping game while Sexton will look to attack flat from fly half and inject pace to the proceedings committing the Gloucester defence whom might well be tempted to drift on to our bigger carriers in these conditions.

At scrum time we will look to contest each and every engagement. On our own feed we will look to get the wheel on and create extra room for our 8-9-10 axis to work in. Picamoles will look for the pick and go from the back of the scrum and rampage as much as possible. On Gloucester feeds we will disrupt the put in looking for penalties or to create rushed, poor ball for the Gloucester halfbacks.

In these conditions we want to keep things simple and use Bekker, Thomson and POM as banker ball. We will look to bring the ball down into the maul and use the physicality of our pack to make good ground before using Picamoles of the back.

On defence, we will use a blitz defence, playing on the fringes of the offside line coming up at pace looking to isolate the Gloucester ball carriers before they can get to the gain line stopping any momentum and allowing us to hit the breakdown harder. Danny Care will act as a sweeper to cover any grubbers or chips behind the line while our back three will sit deep ready to cover any kicks down the touch lines and look to return the ball on the counter at pace.

With the blitz defence in operation we will look to be at the breakdown first hitting it fast and hard. The first two players on the scene will look to ruck past the ball and clear out the Gloucester players while our flanker duo come in and look to poach the ball. We will look to contest the breakdown throughout the game

---

Key Points:

•Neutral Ground
Being a Heineken Cup semi final this game is played at Twickenham and Gloucester lose the familiar advantage of Kingsholm.

•Real Life Form
We have some serious real life form on show with Ayerza, Zirka, Bekker, AWJ, Thomson, POM, Sexton, Hook, Cruden, Freuen, JTH and Strettle in top shape currently.

•Playing Possession
We will not be looking to the boot here. We want to starve Gloucester of possession throughout the game forcing them to play on the back peddle and tiring early to leave space for Sexton to take advantage off. The kicking game of Gloucester suits this even more for us with neither Carter or Barnes on top form this season kicking from hand allowing us more possession.

•Breakdown Battle
We have a flanker duo well versed at poaching the ball and with a more mobile front 5 overall in support we will look to really target this area of the game making the breakdown a real mess for Gloucester.

•Head to Head
In the 4 times that we have played Gloucester in the last 2 seasons the head to head stands at 3-1 in our favour. Gloucester management may highlight the recent win last week but we took the opportunity to rest several first team players to come in fit and firing this week. We are becoming a bogey team for this Gloucester side!

•Playing Two Fronts
Gloucester find themselves competing on two fronts this season. Last season we saw them effectively give up the race for a home playoff at this stage and target the cup while putting out a 2nd string in the league playoffs. The season before we saw an implosion as they lost out in both the Heino and League. Winning these big games over two competitions is as much about mental edge as playing ability. Do Gloucester have this based on the last two seasons?

---

Saracens vs Toulouse
at Welford Road
Heavy Rain , 11mph wind , 16 degrees.

Saracens
Manager – Ozzy3213

01. Tendai Mtwarira	09. Morgan Parra
02. George Chuter	10. Patric Lambie
03. Jannie du Plessis
04. Lionel Nallet	11. Digby Ioane
05. Steve Borthwick	12. Ma'a Nonu
06. Tom Johnson	13. Jonathon Davies
07. George Smith (c)	14. Mark Cueto
08. Alessandro Zanni	15. Tom Homer

16. Gary Botha 17. Max Lahiff 18. Brok Harris 19. Dave Attwood 20. Tom Wood 21. Francois Hougaard 22. Alex Goode 23. Henry Trinder

TACTICS

With heavy rain forecast we will be looking to play a territorial game and ensure that most of the 80 minutes are spent in the Toulouse half of the pitch. Parra, Lambie, Cueto and Homer will all look to keep the French side penned in their 22 by using their boots to good effect. This will include kicks in behind Matanavou and garryowens up onto all of the back three to test their handling skills in the conditions. We will also kick for touch in the corners and put pressure on their lineout in their territory.

We will take all points on offer and have selected 3 top class goal kickers in Parra, Lambie and Homer to ensure that we can maximise scoring opportunities from anywhere within about 60 metres of the posts.


Toulouse
Manager – Guy Noves

01. Jean-Baptiste Poux	09. Luke Burgess
02. William Servat	10. Lionel Beauxis
03. Census Johnston
04. Yoann Maestri	11. Yves Donguy
05. Patricio Albacete	12. Yann David
06. Jean Bouilhou	13. Florian Fritz
07. Yannick Nyanga	14. Timoci Matanavou
08. Louise Picamoles	15. Yannick Jauzion

16. Aksventi Giorgadze 17. Daan Human 18. Yohan Montes 19. Gregory Lamboley 20. Jean-Marc Doussain 21. Clement Poitrenaud 22. Shaun Sowerby 23. Gillian Galan

ITFL has predicted on the Amlin games but is making us wait for this one

Will get to it now lads, decided to do some Russian history revision

Russian history amazing. Love it. A great book is young Stalin by Simon Seabag montfiore

Awesome

What you studing ITFL? The Bolsheviks? It's some great stuff Russain history. Cold War is a fantastic thing to study.

Driver this has become and intellectual thread. Bizarre

1855-1917
So Alexander II all the way to Lenin taking power

Lol , Love history was my favorite thing at School besides nicking off lol

Really interesting stuff.

The difference between the 2 incredible

In the court of the royal tsar by same author great

If you read into it the best part i found was the actual reign of Nicolas II and the lead up to the two revolutions in 1905? and the February revolution.

It's what delving too far into left wing politics does for you lol.

I really feel that the assassination of Alexander II was the key turning point for Russia, when he was killed he was planning some kind of reform that would have been welcomed by the very men that killed him. Poetic justice almost that the next Tsar repressed the opposition far more strictly than the man they killed.

I'm not disputing that , he's plans to reform the Durma would have bought Russia up to speed with the rest of Europe and increased the wealth and happiness of the general public so much.

I also found Rasputin a interesting character to read about especially when you read into the stories of his affairs with the Tsar's wife and some of the strange things he used to do.

christ if id had a few beers reading this thread would be a head fu ck.

I am doing my dissertation on the western involvement on the rwandan genocide. a lot of people have a lot to answer for!

It would have really made a difference I feel although he seemed to be stuck in-between pleasing either the nobility or the people who wanted reform and seem to pleased neither.

At a lecture I attended, the speaker said he sometimes doubts the suspected tails of Rasputin's sexual exploits. Although he was quite cosy with the Tsarina during WW1 while they virtually run the country.

Steve Rwanda was dreadful corruption and warlords all the way.

That has something to do with the French screwing up with there Refugee camps and intermixing of tribes if i'm right Steve?

Worst
Thing is integrating child soldiers who have cuddled in a bad way and killed into society.
Same as sierre leone

Cuddled was meant to be r a p e d

Tutsi vs Hutu also in drc worst place in world

Gloucester 21-17 Sale
Prefer the Sale front row who I think will have an edge when it comes to scrum time. I do like the Gloucester second row but the Sale one has some quality so have it about even. The back-row I edge towards Glaws although POM will secure some good ball for Sale. Half-backs I edge towards Gloucester despite possible form issues with Genia. Centres are similarly hard to call although if pushed edge towards the Gloucester pairing and I think their back three is more dangerous. At home and with a better bench I think Gloucester have enough to see it through

Saracens 26-18 Toulouse
Sarries are just better all over the park for me. The backs especially I see Sarries dominating with Toulouse not having in-form players. Forwards are harder to seperate but Sarries easily have enough

In the interests of fairness I am just going to point out to ITFL that Gloucester are not at home, the match is at Twickenham.

we're doing a lot of work at the moment on Darfur, how growing populations, scarce resources and climate change is going to cause a crap tonne of wars all through Africa, how China is taking all the resources from everywhere and how countries all over the place are stock piling up weapons to combat all that - it's a lovely world we're moving towards.

met a lady who does a lot of aide work out in Darfur and she said she'd been r a p e d about 5 times, but kept going out there as people were suffering so badly - amazing lady, have no idea how her family cope with her going back out there time and again!

Make it 23-21 then please Pete

Some awful places in the world and people to match.

Sudan has so much oil. Darfur has sky scrapers bizarrely

No worries.

Bad pete!!!!! Stop interfering lol

Never mind interfering we're having a intelligent conversation! I'v had to dumb myself down by putting American Pie on!

RESULTS

Gloucester 25 Sale Sharks 23

Saracens 27 Toulouse 16


Gloucester make their 3rd consecutive Heineken Cup final I believe, and it's a repeat of the 2009/10 AP final.

That experience is valuable hey pete ??

Tight game. Need to rest players
Against Irish next week
And try and beat you away pete!!

Think it will be me and you back to back Mat, AP semi and then Heino final. Going to be some tough team selections.

Agreed. I will rotate next week but will go for it at Irish. Hope
Weather is better

Well this thread went odd during the night!!

Scorers

Gloucester 25-23 Sale Sharks

Tries: Kahui, Saull, May
Conv: Carter (2)
Pen: Carter (2)

Tries: Freuen, Cruden
Conv: Sexton (2)
Pen: Sexton (3)


Saracens 27 Toulouse 16

Tries: Homer, Mtwarira, Ioane
Conv: Lambie (3)
Pen: Lambie (2)

Tries: Matanavou
Conv: Beauxis
Pen: Beauxis (3)