West Indies v Australia, 2nd Test, Trinidad

First topic message reminder :

Frank Worrell Trophy
April 15-19, Queen's Park Oval, Port-of-Spain
Start time: 1000 AST, 1500 GMT, 0000 EST

West Indies:
1 Adrian Barath, 2 Kraigg Brathwaite, 3 Kieran Powell, 4 Darren Bravo, 5 Shivnarine Chanderpaul, 6 Narsingh Deonarine,
7 Carlton Baugh†, 8 Darren Sammy*, 9 Shane Shillingford, 10 Kemar Roach, 11 Fidel Edwards.

Australia:
1 Ed Cowan, 2 David Warner, 3 Shane Watson, 4 Ricky Ponting, 5 Michael Clarke*, 6 Michael Hussey,
7 Matthew Wade†, 8 James Pattinson, 9 Ben Hilfenhaus, 10 Nathan Lyon, 11 Michael Beer.

Frustrating stuff for West Indies... they didn't bowl that badly but just couldn't make the breakthroughs required.

Quick wickets needed after lunch.

Pattinson reminds me a lot of Broad when he bats. I don't know if it is just the right hand bowler, left hand bat thing but there is definitely something. It probably is the fact they both stand quite tall whilst playing the ball like Mike says, but I just see a lot of similarities between them!

Nice to see some aggressive bowling from the Windies bowlers. I really do like Kemar Roach, he's a got a great action and some serious pace. It was great when he roughed up Ponting in Aus and he's continued to do so in this series. Fidel has bowled quite nicely also. Both quicks were bowling some crackers without much luck. Sammy really is an ordinary bowler but Shillingford looks much more threatening than Bishoo.

Thing with Bishoo is he hardly flights it and doesn't get his arm up high enough. In the end the ball is very low in the sights of the batsmen and just skids of really. Shillingford gives it a bit of tweak and flight and looks a far more threatening bowler.

Sorry breaker, i tune into the cricket and Hussey is out immediately

14/4 since i tune in and the Aussies are all out for 311.

That is an inbetween score if you ask me. I think WI have done well to get them all out for 311, hopefully they will be able to make a decent score and this test can also be competitive.

on this pitch it's an excellent score IMO, things looking really tough for the WI having already lost a wicket without scoring. You have to say Australia have bowled well so far though it was one of the more ordinary balls which got a wicket.

I honestly think WI may struggle to avoid the follow-on here, unless Chanderpaul gets going.

eirebilly wrote:Sorry breaker, i tune into the cricket and Hussey is out immediately

That's OK mate. I just woke up. Breakfast in Bronte cancelled due to a superstorm arriving off the Tasman... it's miserable outside here all of a sudden.

So what's happened? 311 looks a decent total. It was agonisingly slow run scoring when I watched the start of it last night.

I suspect we will only find out how good the pitch is once the West Indies have batted. 311 is a score which gives both teams a bit of a chance, but on first inspection 300 will be tough to get. Any lead in this innings is absolutely crucial you feel.

Oooh that's a lovely quicker one from Beer to trap Barath plumb LBW. 26-2

I'd have loved to have seen Warnie bowl on this pitch...

Well, Bravo's decided he fancies a piece of Beer.

Pattinson on... wicket first ball, Powell LBW.

Pitched outside leg but Powell, possibly because there's only one review remaining walks off. Have to say it pitched only a fraction outside leg, live it looked pretty adjacent.

Pattinson strikes first ball. Cracking ball that, nips back and catches Powell in front!

Hang on, replays show it pitched fractionally outside leg, so had Powell referred it he would have survived. He didn't (in fact he walked off without considering it), so he's on his way. WI in deep deep trouble. Like I said, the follow-on could prove a tough target here...

Mike, are keepers no longer taught to roll when diving to take the ball? Wade didn't there...

Pattinson follows up that wicket with a bit of rubbish first up to Chandepaul. He did that a couple of times against India as well from what I remember.

38/3, West Indies need a partnership... now really.

Pattinson got a bit over-excited there I think

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Mike, are keepers no longer taught to roll when diving to take the ball? Wade didn't there...

Australian keepers historically haven't rolled when they "go far".

really? didn't know that, I'd have thought the grounds in Australia were pretty hard in general, so not where you'd want to be hitting the ground heavily. Interesting to watch Wade keep to the spinners off Bravo: he leans his head quite far off-side to get the bat out of his line of vision, keeping it nice and still and his inside foot in line with off stump, good stuff.

Powell right to walk off in my opinion. There were much bigger fish to keep that referral for, and he can't have been certain it pitched outside leg (it definitely looked in-line live to me)

MfC I think basically the feeling is if you can't go two-handed you may as well extend fully and take the impact on your chest.

Gilchrist, Healy and Marsh were great exponants at rolling when diving if i remember correctly?

Gilchrist didn't roll when he went one-handed IIRC. Can't remember regarding Healy or Marsh.

Hmmm well he rolls for this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBHL_vRCtc&feature=related

then again it's a bit random...

yeah but he was going forwards, not sideways...

May just be me but i remember especially that early in Gilly's career he did roll when catching and that was a concern for his coaches that he may get injured. I am certain that i read that somewhere...

Mike Selig wrote:yeah but he was going forwards, not sideways...

yeah well I can't find any footage of him diving full-stretch sideways

Heck I just made a throwaway comment that Wade didn't roll when he dived to take one down leg, I DIDN'T EXPECT THE SPANISH INQUISITION

Ok you two (not MfC)... can we please stop hounding one another?

Hounding? I see no hounding i was just interested? MFC's comment really made me think about the rolling and was interested in other peoples points of view. I saw no hounding.

Well i guess i will have to leave the cricket threads again now

well it's just that I was taught to roll as you dived (tuck your elbows in and roll on impact) to avoid chances of the ball popping out as your elbows hit the ground. I guess keepers nowadays wear elbow-guards anyway, so that helps. here's another of Gilchrist's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUAD_iYgSl8

he sort of rolls, but mostly after impact I guess.

Sorry Billy.

As you correctly said... past Aussies wicket keepers have been known to roll but as Mike says - it's best to get the body behind the ball and take the delivery in the most natural position standing up. Usually in front of torso... depending on the bounce.

According to Richie B, Chappelli, Tony Greig and co., keepers would stand a little closer to the stumps than they do today - hence the comment that 'so-and-so needs to take a step/step and a half forward'. But I think the ball carries better these days and the pitches are more firmly consistent - that's why they tend to set the keeper/slips cordon slightly deeper to express pace bowlers.

True, the harder surfaces (of previous years) made it more painful to be constantly rolling around on the ground. Also, the more chance of the ball popping out if the elbow hits the turf and the technique is slightly off. However, in the last 10 years, say, the turf here has improved considerably and diving is not such a painful experience.

eirebilly wrote:Hounding? I see no hounding i was just interested? MFC's comment really made me think about the rolling and was interested in other peoples points of view. I saw no hounding.

Well i guess i will have to leave the cricket threads again now

Nah I think this debate was ok. No hounding was involved, it is an interesting point. I should best have answered the question with "I don't really know".

Although to me the clip that MfC produces of Gilchrist in 95 underlines my point, by trying to roll, Gilchrist lands on his elbows rather than (if he stayed with his direction) his chest. To me (and I think this is the modern viewpoint), if your arm(s) are fully extended when you catch the ball, it is impossible to tuck the elbows in before impact (as MfC describes) and you are best leaving your arm(s) extended and turning slightly so as to take the impact on your chest and maybe opposite arm (which you do bring in if catching one handed). By trying to tuck your catching elbow in you are more likely to land on it.

Here is a good demo of what I mean (not by a keeper):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ2GIGxw2Yk&feature=related
See how his right arm has gone too far to be able to bring back so he lessens the impact somewhat with his left-arm?

Wade did a 2-handed take later in the evening with the perfect "tuck elbows in and roll so as to land on shoulder" as described by MfC, and made famous by Russell.

In fact these techniques aren't restricted to keepers, you would teach them to fielders also, as demonstrated in the clip.

That was an absolute pearler of a catch.

Pure instinctual reaction but the technique of tucking the left arm under is probably a natural balance thing for him and he's most likely worked on it like he would his golf swing. He makes it look so easy.

He sort of follows through with his left (outstretched at first) then brings it in (the roll) back under his side. Maybe it's a 'protect the internal organs' kind of reaction. It would be dangerous (and difficult) to not do that arc action... if he lands on his arm immediately (without the rolling action) then he risks a shoulder, elbow or side (torso) injury.

No play because DRS and TV pictures are down.... this can't be good for cricket, when you have supporters in the ground.

It's back on now.
69/3

well just as I was going to say how well this pair were doing, along comes Hussey with a gentle inswinger, which Bravo somehow managed to play inside the line of, and he's trapped plumb LBW. To make matters worse, he decides to waste WI's last review, to the obvious disgust of his partner Chanderpaul. Aus bang on top again.

100 up. Hussey gets Bravo plumb lbw. 4th wicket down.

oh boy this is tight! could be one of those "missing frames" ones which means batsman may get away with it. Had Wade taken it in front of the stumps it would have been out!

given not out. WI reach lunch on 132/4, decent session for them, but they need these two to score big if they''re to have a chance at getting something out of this match.

The pitch doesn't look like it's worsening much though...

Two wickets and Australia are back in the driving seat... Make that three wickets - all to Lyon. Make that four wickets all to Lyon....

West Indies were all out for 257.

Australia have lost 2 quick wickets. Roach just bowled Watson... play and miss two balls in a row.

Lead is now 80 as Punter comes out to bat.

Fidel bowled well without much luck. Roach just impresses me more every game he plays. Darren Sammy has had a couple of bad days. Take him out and replace him with Rampaul and him, Roach and Edwards would be a fiery bowling attack. I don't really rate his captaincy, why did he put himself at 1st slip when one-He fields at 2nd slip and two-Bravo normally fields at 1st slip. Crazy stuff.

It's a pity yesterday was affected by the rain.

With the 127 run lead I don't think Clarke will be in a position to make another sporting declaration. A minimum of a 200 run lead might be the target (they'd need to come out swinging)...with a couple of sessions to try and bowl the West Indies out in around 2 sessions?

Too much to ask... or hope for. Or with a slow run rate... maybe 175 to chase?

Going to be difficult to get enough for a declaration in time , I think...Clarke is an adventurous chap , but he doesn't want to make a present of a Test match to West Indies so he can't take too much risk surely...

Best chance might be if Australia collapse and West Indies find themselves having to bat for a couple of sessions on a wearing pitch ?

At least the weather looks OK at the moment - might be some more rain later though I gather.

Clarke may be an adventurous chappie, but with Aus in a position of strength I suspect he'll want to make sure he can't lose the game first. Barring a dramatic Aus collapse I think this one is destined for a draw, which is a shame as it was shaping up nicely.

Can anyone explain what Sammy is doing here? You've got the opposition just 150 ahead with the last recognised batsman coming to the crease. Do you bowl your 2 decent quicks or your own trundling seam and a part time spinner?

I actually think Sammy is scared of defeat here....

So Australia had a bit of a bash after lunch, and have set the West Indies a gettable but tough target of just over 200 at 3.5 an over.

West Indies send out Powell to open instead of Brathwaite, I suggest a mixture of aggression and to have a left-hand/right-hand combination.

Powell out, reviewing it but that's plumb. Yep.

Oh hello, Sammy coming out to bat at 3. Interesting interesting...

Talk about wasting a review...

Barath out, perfect outswinger from Hilfenhaus. Now what do West Indies do?

Haven't really been watching this test, the rain appeared to have made it a non result but I must say that that was a very sporting deceleration by Clarke. Windies currently 34/2, another 181 to go and a maximum of 53.2 overs. It's doable.

Bad light stopped play. Bleeding 'ell, it's 14:15 in the afternoon over there, and it's bad light?!

Sammy had the Aussies rattled there, Hilfenhaus decided to attack him back of a length (despite having bowled two perfect away swingers for the wickets). Still would have fancied the Australians from there, but it was all set for quite a fascinating finish.

Shame about the rain. Could have gone either way.