Should I?

I know hardly anyone uses this section of the 606v2 forums but I'd like some advice!

As most of you know who follow this forum I do Aiki-Jujutsu; I've been doing Aiki-Jujutsu for about a year 1/2 and practice twice a week. I have my blue belt grading coming up in two weeks, which I am excited about and hope by the summer, all going well, to take my brown belt grading. If I continue to make the necessary progress then hopefully I will take my Shodan black belt grading at the end of next year.

However, it has become apparent to me that while I love doing Aiki-Jujutsu and am fully committed to becoming a black belt, Aiki-Jujutsu does not offer everything I desire to learn as a martial artist. I have always maintained that I would like to study two martial arts to gain a broader experience, with the intention of taking up a second after getting my black belt in Aiki-Jujutsu first. But, recently I have been inspired by watching videos of Randori in Aikido over youtube. Randori as practiced in Aikido is something that is missing in Aiki-Jujutsu and I would very much like to learn how to do it. There is an Aikido club in my town that meets on a Saturday morning, which is very convenient for me as it wouldn't clash with my Aiki-Jujutsu or take up another work evening. So in many respects its perfect for me.

My current line of thinking is that I could go along to the Aikido club on a Saturday to compliment what I do in Aiki-Jujutsu and hopefully give me experience in the Randori fulfilling that particular need in me. However, I am slightly fearful that taking up a second martial art before reaching my Dan grade in Aiki-Jujutsu first will hinder my progress!? The good thing about taking up Aikido is that as an art it is very similar anyway to Aiki-Jujutsu (as the name would suggest) so it isn't like taking up a completely different martial art with very different techniques and philosophy.

I know at the end of the day it is a hobby and it doesn't really matter what grade I am as long as I enjoy it; however, I like to throw myself into things, especially when I am passionate about it and ultimately would like to teach Aiki-Jujutsu myself one day so am very keen on becoming a Dan grade. Also, I've done some research into Aikido and apparently on average it takes between 5-7 years to become a Dan grade which is longer than in Aiki-Jujutsu. That then raises the issue of would it be better to start sooner if I wanted to grade in Aikido or would it be more advantagous for me to wait until I'm already at a Dan grade level first and then transfer my skills to Aikido? I'm not necessarily saying I want a short cut to becoming a Dan grade in Aikido just that the thought of starting out as a white belt all over again after becoming a black belt is a little unattractive to me at the moment!

Does anyone have any similar experiences of training in more than one martial art and did it effect your progress in anyway? Would you recommend I do both simultaneously or wait until after I've got my Dan grade in Aiki-Jujutsu first?

Howdy talkingpoint,

Personally I don't have any experience that could help you but i would have thought you'd be fine doing different disciplines at the same time.

I just do general MMA so little bits of everything i.e. 'Jack of all trades, master of none' but others do that whilst taking just BJJ or wrestling and seem ok but this may not be relevant?

Thanks Valero's Conscience I think I am going to start up Aikido, but with the view of complimenting my Aiki-Jujutsu - that is still my priority, especially from a self-defence perspective.

Hi

My background is in Shotokan, but I deliberately also took up some Tai Chi training as a complement (partly inspired by Sensei Kanazawa's view that they are like yin and yang of the same thing). I forget what grade I held in karate at the time, but I think it was mid-level. I did a bit of Yang style short form at university, and then studied Cheng Man Ching form for a few years (before lesson times moved around and it was no longer convenient for me to attend).

This worked well for me, as the styles are very different and I feel I have learned from both.

I can however see some issues if you're trying to study similar styles at the same time - e.g. I've come across a lot of practitioners from other strands of karate at our training sessions, and they sometimes struggle to adapt to the different stances, forms and nuances of technique. I'm sure it can be done, but I can definitely see the potential for confusion.

Best wishes to you in your pursuits,

Thanks Skydriver, your experience is really interesting and you raise a good point about doing two arts that are very similar to one another. I think I should explain my own position a little more clearly; I am particularly influenced in my approach to martial arts by Roy Dean. Roy Dean runs a BJJ academy in America but is also an all-round Jujutsu specialist; he has black belts in Judo, Aikido, (Aiki)Jujutsu and BJJ. He really inspires me to become a true Jujutsu specialist so my martial focus is concentrated to the aforementioned arts.

I've been doing some more research into Aikido and there seems to be many differences in opinions about the usefulness and effectives of Aikido as a form of self-defence as well as the purpose of the art. There are those who think the primary purpose of Aikido is self-improvement and that the philosophical and spiritual aspects of the art are the most important thing (the do in Aikido). Others believe Aikido must still function on a very practical level as a martial art and stress the jutsu techniques of its heritage.

The very fact that the purpose and effectiveness of Aikido is so debated even within the Aikido community itself tells me that Aikido alone would not be a suitable art for me. However Morihei Ueshiba founder of Aikido was a master in Daito-Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu before developing Aikido and had a firm foundation in the more combative techniques of Aiki-Jujutsu. I think this is what many Aikidokas are lacking, which isn't a problem for me as my primary art is Aiki-Jujutsu. I think I have the right foundation to practice Aikido with.

However, there are certain nuances to the techniques in both arts that could potential be difficult to remember to apply - Aiki-Jujutsu focusses on small circular movements and use of body weight not strength; Aikido utilises large circular movements with more focus on 'blending' energy.

I think at the end of the day I'm just going to have to go along to the Aikido club and experience it for myself before I make a definite decision on whether to practice both arts.

Have you taken up Aikido yet? Was quite surprised that you were looking into it after your 'grievences with Aikido' article. Like yourself I have read articles on its effectiveness but like your point about the guy that devised it & having a more combatative application & background. I have watched some videos on youtube & understand from what people say about the choreographed that if it was real people would be getting broken bones. The gym I use for Kick boxing also runs Aikido at no extra cost so was maybe considering it as the Juijitsu class is no longer running but I definately would prefer to do Juijitsu.

I haven't taken up Aikido yet, I've decided for the time being to focus solely on my Jujutsu. I graded last weekend and got my blue belt but the gradings are only going to get harder and I don't want to slow down my progress by trying to juggle two arts.

My grievances with Aikido are still there and imo are still valid; I've seen some really impressive stuff on youtube but also some really bad stuff as well. Aikido does seem like an art where it really does depend on the quality of your instructor. I know its meant to be a gentle art but some of the demonstrations I've seen have been little more than a dance where the uke have simply rolled out of the slightest movement or touch (not very realistic!). I believe Aikido could be used dynamically but as there are so many similarities with my style of Jujutsu anyway for now it doesn't make sense for me to do both. I know I am getting good instruction in Jujutsu and even though it is a traditional art form my instructors are still conscious it must work on the street too. The longer I train the more I can adapt it to become practical for self-defence. So at the moment I am focussed on improving my Jujutsu and getting to the next level.

talkingpoint wrote:I haven't taken up Aikido yet, I've decided for the time being to focus solely on my Jujutsu. I graded last weekend and got my blue belt but the gradings are only going to get harder and I don't want to slow down my progress by trying to juggle two arts.

My grievances with Aikido are still there and imo are still valid; I've seen some really impressive stuff on youtube but also some really bad stuff as well. Aikido does seem like an art where it really does depend on the quality of your instructor. I know its meant to be a gentle art but some of the demonstrations I've seen have been little more than a dance where the uke have simply rolled out of the slightest movement or touch (not very realistic!). I believe Aikido could be used dynamically but as there are so many similarities with my style of Jujutsu anyway for now it doesn't make sense for me to do both. I know I am getting good instruction in Jujutsu and even though it is a traditional art form my instructors are still conscious it must work on the street too. The longer I train the more I can adapt it to become practical for self-defence. So at the moment I am focussed on improving my Jujutsu and getting to the next level.

Now this is the problem isn't it sorting the good from the bad, the bad just doesn't do it any justice whatsoever. I have watched to some good stuff but without sounding like a hater I'm not completely convinced by it. The quality of instruction is vital but I have meant a couple of people who trained in that & also Tai Chi who seemed to have that weird attitude about having no combatative aspect to it but believing they are or would be unstoppable in a street/self defence situation. Must say i am more convinced by Juijitsu, Goshin Juijitsu is what I am going to look into.

Glad to see you feel you are getting good instruction & its progressing well for you, nice to see your instructors are realistic about it. I have been checking out some Joe rogan podcasts of recent with Eddie Bravo & they feel Juijitsu is really takening off & going to another level, been reading the same in the UK.

In Aikido's defence (or TMA in general) there are alot of haters out there who love to troll youtube and jumping on the whole 'choreographed' nature of Aikido demonstrations judging the art from an outsiders perspective with little to no experience. Just because something for the purpose of a demonstration is choreographed doesn't mean the techniques cannot be adapted for self-defence. However, it takes years of practice to build Jujutsu/Aikido techniques into your muscle memory so you can do them instinctively. Through this process you learn not just the technique but how to adapt them and make them practical. All high level Jujutsukas should have the wisdom and experience to be able to apply variations of the waza techniques for self-defence. That is my goal anyway.

talkingpoint wrote:In Aikido's defence (or TMA in general) there are alot of haters out there who love to troll youtube and jumping on the whole 'choreographed' nature of Aikido demonstrations judging the art from an outsiders perspective with little to no experience. Just because something for the purpose of a demonstration is choreographed doesn't mean the techniques cannot be adapted for self-defence. However, it takes years of practice to build Jujutsu/Aikido techniques into your muscle memory so you can do them instinctively. Through this process you learn not just the technique but how to adapt them and make them practical. All high level Jujutsukas should have the wisdom and experience to be able to apply variations of the waza techniques for self-defence. That is my goal anyway.

That's it isn't it! Mike Tyson can be dissed for not ko'ing Michael Spinks in an even shorter time, Mesi could be a better footballer than he is! It's why I never post on Youtube.

That's it as has been previously said if they weren't choreographed you'd have a lot of injured people every demo. Still not really sure its for me, maybe I give it a go in a couple of months, been ill a couple of times this year/now & my fitness level is lower so want to get back on with the kick boxing regularly before I try something else alongside it. Also been seeing a physio for calve problem another nail in the coffin!

If you were considering doing Aikido or some form of traditional Jujutsu then I recommend watching on youtube the Path Beyond Thought documentary about Steven Seagal. Not sure what you think of him as an actor but the documentary is excellent. Seagal's Aikido is very physical and very practical.

My advice to you would be enjoy it and just be intelligent about it. We practice a lot of waza techniques in Aiki-Jujutsu, which in their kata form are not very practical for self-defence but their purpose is to teach us the mechanics of the locks and techniques. Once you have grasped the mechanics of the technique and understand how they work - what angles you need to employ, how much force or pressure etc then you can apply that to a street style scenario. Secondly, atemis are very important in setting up a lock or a throw. This is something that Aikido does fall short on. Aikido teaches you to blend your energy with that of your attacker, whereas Aiki-Jujutsu teaches you to change the mindset of the attacker first. I've been taught to use strikes intelligently both as a distraction allowing you to put on a lock and also importantly to switch your attacker's mindset from predator to prey.

Of course every MA has its advantages and disadvantages and Jujutsu/Aikido is not different. But I think there is great value in TMAs as long as you are committed and intelligent about them.

You know I loved the early Seagal films, Nico, Out for justice, classics! Watched the documentary & found it really interesting. What I noticed, & with his training of MMA guys, & mentioned in this is how quick he is. Some good points were raised in it with regards to hi physical approach & the need for it to be practical. Also the bit about the importance of learning to fall properly & how it was as important as being on your feet. The randori & the grading of it was good as well.
I think Seagal gets a bit of a raw deal out there, I know some MMA guys have really dissed him. But his passion is something else. Watching that though you would love to be taught by him or from somebody he passed it on to.

I think you made a lot of excellent points about training in either art, learning the mechanics of the techniques & then adapting them for real life or MMa if thats what people want. Liked the bit about using strikes as a distraction & the analogy from predator to prey.

I must say i think you have a great attitude to martial arts in all their forms & all the angles, you seem to have a great understanding of learning & application of it & I think from what you've written & if you got to that level you could be a good teacher, I wish you every success.

I would love to teach Jujutsu eventually, but right now its just a pipe dream as I'm still a student. Seagal's randori is awe-inspiring and yeah I agree his passion is unparalleled, I've also got his Lawman dvds again very impressive watching him in a professional capacity as a policeman.

Roy Dean is fantastic at applying Aikido to MMA - I don't know if there are any clips on youtube but on his art of the wristlock dvd he shows how he adapts Aikido wristlocks for BJJ and grappling contests. I'd never seen variations like that before - he's such an innovative martial artist.

http://myjujutsujourney.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/what-is-aiki.html

dispelling some myths about Aiki thought it might be of interest in relation to this topic.