Owen Farrell - How good has he actually been for England?

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Farrell has kicked well for England, getting us vital 3 points (and 2 points) that have won us games. Away from his kicking however, I don't remember him doing much else except "solid" stuff I would expect of every player e.g. tackling. No line breaks that I remember, no putting others through on line breaks that I recall either, and yet he seems to be getting pretty good reviews in the press.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he has played badly per se, I just don't think he's been that good either (aside from kicking). Anyone care to tell me what makes him so good? I appreciate he has only played two games for England and they weren't great games. What does he do at Saracens that makes him stand out? I'm not slating him, I just would like someone better informed to tell me exactly what he offers.

The good thing is though that Farrell is what 20? That is very young for someone who can remain cool at the top level and kick his goals and remain defensively solid. He may not have the flair/creativity of some other players, but he can develop his awareness and creativity as he continues to play. I feel he would be a better 10 than 12 also.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The good thing is though that Farrell is what 20? That is very young for someone who can remain cool at the top level and kick his goals and remain defensively solid. He may not have the flair/creativity of some other players, but he can develop his awareness and creativity as he continues to play. I feel he would be a better 10 than 12 also.

I disagee somewhat Rory, i feel that you are a creative player or you're not. I dont think that Farrell will ever be the most creative 10 but the rest of his game will certainly improve and feel he will become a very solid JW'ish typ 10.

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The good thing is though that Farrell is what 20? That is very young for someone who can remain cool at the top level and kick his goals and remain defensively solid. He may not have the flair/creativity of some other players, but he can develop his awareness and creativity as he continues to play. I feel he would be a better 10 than 12 also.

I disagee somewhat Rory, i feel that you are a creative player or you're not. I dont think that Farrell will ever be the most creative 10 but the rest of his game will certainly improve and feel he will become a very solid JW'ish typ 10.

That would be world cup winning Johnny W...so not a bad player to emulate.

In all honesty i would sooner have a little more creative player at 10...HOWEVER...if we were to have Farrells solidity at 10, and unveil a creative 12, with Trinder / Tuilagi / Lowe etc at 13..then it would work fine for me.

Well, his defence is certainly going to be tested next weekend.

I think the OP's question could really be widened to say, how good has this team been for England. We haven't seen much from them - and there are plenty of good reasons for that - but what we have seen is that they are very together as a team and it is that, more than individual heroics, which has got us 2 from 2.

I think we will need to show more than we have (weather permitting!) if we are to have any chance of being 3 from 3 by next Sunday evening. The Welsh backs aren't just big lumps, they are good big lumps.

So I suppose my answer to the question would be that he hasn't done anything wrong in difficult circumstances. And being 4 from 4 with his kicking in Rome is a big plus mark. But I would really like to see some line breaking ability.

Ok who would you pick for Wales game?

10.Hodgson
12.Barritt
13.Farrell

10.Hodgson
12.Farrell
13.Tuilagi

10.Farrell
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi

10.Hodgson
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi

Flood-Barritt-Tuilagi would be my combo.
With either Hodgeson or Farrell on the bench - but most likely Farrell as he covers more positions.

Harsh on Charlie but someone has to miss out - and he didnt get the backs moving in the previous fixtures (something that was supposed to have been a positive of his).

Farrell at 10, to me only really offers a kick chase game.

Don't get me wrong - would love to see Farrell to kick on and develop more sides to his game (I just dont see it yet).

GeordieFalcon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The good thing is though that Farrell is what 20? That is very young for someone who can remain cool at the top level and kick his goals and remain defensively solid. He may not have the flair/creativity of some other players, but he can develop his awareness and creativity as he continues to play. I feel he would be a better 10 than 12 also.

I disagee somewhat Rory, i feel that you are a creative player or you're not. I dont think that Farrell will ever be the most creative 10 but the rest of his game will certainly improve and feel he will become a very solid JW'ish typ 10.

That would be world cup winning Johnny W...so not a bad player to emulate.

In all honesty i would sooner have a little more creative player at 10...HOWEVER...if we were to have Farrells solidity at 10, and unveil a creative 12, with Trinder / Tuilagi / Lowe etc at 13..then it would work fine for me.

Or even better 10Burns 12Barritt 13Tuilagi/Trinder. Nice mix, won't happen though.

Spot on EnglishReign, perhaps then we could have an England 10 with real pace and attacking vision!

I would go for:

10. Hodgson
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi

21. Flood

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok who would you pick for Wales game?

10.Hodgson
12.Barritt
13.Farrell

10.Hodgson
12.Farrell
13.Tuilagi

10.Farrell
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi

10.Hodgson
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi

I'd go for that one. But from the stuff I heard, the status quo will be maintained.

Cumbrian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok who would you pick for Wales game?

10.Hodgson
12.Barritt
13.Farrell

10.Hodgson
12.Farrell
13.Tuilagi

10.Farrell
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi

10.Hodgson
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi

I'd go for that one. But from the stuff I heard, the status quo will be maintained.

I'd go for that one too.

I specifically watched Burns this weekend. He looked really good against Bath, could we have him in the EPS please?

2 pluses 1 minus sums it up

++ Kicking and Tackling

- No Creativity

I have a sinking feeling it will be;

10.Hodgson, 12.Farrell, 13.Barritt. 21.Flood, 22. Tuilagi.

When it really should be;

10.Flood/Hodgson, 12.Barritt, 13.Tuilagi. 21.Farrell, 22.Sharples.

Spot on Sam, that's exactly what I predicted as well! Although Sharples is injured at present.

If only May was in the EPs, he could cover everywhere after 10.

Sam i'm worried you're right there, another coach who's terrified of change.

Who has Leivremonts number??!

Bannahan covers every single position bar 10. I think Geech is playing him at SH next week....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:He hasnt been good at all.

It shows the state of English rugby when we get all excited about a player because he can kick goals. Farrell should be nowhere near an International jersey, especially at centre.

I struggle to recall a 10/12 combo with such little line threat ever turning out for England (somebody help me here?!?!) opposition defences must have the week off prior to playing us.

Bit harsh on a guy who has won a Premiership final at 19 playing fly half and only played two tests...both away....both won....in conditions that were not remotely condusive to expansive play. If he should be nowhere near an international jersey Id love to see the list of brilliant English creative centres who are lining up to play ahead of him.