Welsh regions players out of contract this summer.

I'm trying to compile a list of whos out of contract with the regions in the summer and who they would want to keep of those out of contract.

Scarlets:
Nick Reynold
Nick Cudd
Gareth Davies
Stephen Jones
Andy Fenby
Rhys Thomas
Sean Lamont - Going to Scotland
Richie Pugh
Deacon Manu
Jonathan Davies
Dom Day
Lou Reed
Lee Williams

(Iestyn Thomas, Dan Evans, Matthew Rees and Ken Owens all signed new contracts).

Blues
Richie Rees
Jamie Corsi,
Ryan Tyrrell,
Nathan Trevett,
Ryan Harford,
Gareth Davies,
Marc Breeze
Maama Molitika,
Ben Blair,
Tao’ Felise,
Martyn Williams,
Xavier Rush,
Paul Tito,
Dan Parks,
Gavin Evans,
Ceri Sweeney,
Richard Mustoe,
Gethin Jenkins,
Casey Laulala, - Munster have bid for the player.
Gavin Henson

Ospreys
Adam Jones
Huw Bennett
Nikki Walker
Barry Davies
Richard Fussell
Cai Griffiths
Sonny Parker
Tom Smith
Chancey O'Ooole
Ken Dowding

Dragons
Luke Charteris - confirmed he is leaving for France.
James Leadbitter
Martyn Thomas
Aled Brew,
Will Harries,
Pat Leach,
Tom Riley,
Jason Tovey,
Matthew Jones,
Wayne Evans,
Ben castle,
Aaron Coundley,
Hugh Gustafson
Scott Morgan
Andrew Coombs
Gavin Thomas
Steve Jones
Hugo Ellis
Tonderai Chavhanga

(Toby Faletau, Lloyd burns signed new contracts will 2014, Lydiate till 2013)

The Dragons have a huge list. I'm sure somebody will post the full list. The big 2 are Brew and Tovey. Hoping they'll both stay. There have been rumours about Brew going to France, but he's turned down offers before. I think Tovey will stay. Maybe the Blues will be interested, but I'm sure he'll sign on.

I cant find a Dragons list anywhere

AlynDavies wrote:

(Deiniol Jones, Gareth Williams have signed new deals.)

Thought Deiniol was retiring and Gareth Wiliams had already packed it in through injury.

Cardiff Dave wrote:Thought Deiniol was retiring and Gareth Wiliams had already packed it in through injury.

your right about Williams I forgot about that, I need to check on Deiniol Jones.

Alyn. They announced the list last week. I'll have a look.

manofgwent wrote:Alyn. They announced the list last week. I'll have a look.

http://draggedup.co.uk/chat/viewtopic.php?t=3664&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

This?

Alyn. 17 Dragons are out of contract. Many are fringe players, but the main ones are.

Charteris - Leaving for France
Tovey
Wayne Evans
Gavin Thomas
Ales Brew

Fingers crossed we'll keep all of the above (except Charteris). Even Gav Thomas should have another year in him.

Tommy bowe isnt out off cobtract till 2013

Rugby10 wrote:Tommy bowe isnt out off cobtract till 2013

Yup sorry, I read the wrong date on the web page, it said 2012, but when I read down the article was from 2009. Though there have been rumours about Bowe going back to Ireland this season.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/6867529/Tommy-Bowe-likely-to-stay-with-Ospreys-despite-Irish-interest.html

If you believe this article the blues budget was £5m for the 2009-2010 season, which was dropped to £4.4m for this season, now it will be dropped to £3.5m as part of the new deal between the regions so I guess we can expect nearly all of these Cardiff Blues players to be out on their ear.

£1.1m of savings is a lot of money, that's probably Parks, Rush, Molitika, Sweeney, and Blair?

AlynDavies wrote:If you believe this article the blues budget was £5m for the 2009-2010 season, which was dropped to £4.4m for this season, now it will be dropped to £3.5m as part of the new deal between the regions so I guess we can expect nearly all of these Cardiff Blues players to be out on their ear.

£1.1m of savings is a lot of money, that's probably Parks, Rush, Molitika, Sweeney, and Blair?

That sounds like Blues might be half decent next year without the dross

From a Dragons point of view we need to hold onto:

M Thomas, Tovey and Brew as priorities then

W Evans (only having dip in form) Harries, Coombes and Gus (are rumours true he being converted to hooker?)

As for the rest then they could stay or go but I have been dis-appointed with Ellis was hoping he was going to add something to our main squad but is nothing more than bit part player.

Nick Reynold - possibility he could be let go, with the emergence of Warren etc.
Nick Cudd - see above
Gareth Davies - we need to sign him on a 3 yr deal
Stephen Jones - a one year extension please
Andy Fenby - could possible be let go
Rhys Thomas - if he stays, he might very well have to take a pay cut
Sean Lamont - Going to Scotland - I'm still distraught
Richie Pugh - he should be pretty safe, and he's under contract with the 7's so not too expensive
Deacon Manu - we might very well let him go
Jonathan Davies - pleeeeeeease sign again Foxy!
Dom Day - would like to keep him, some English clubs been sniffing around though
Lou Reed - for strength in depth at 2nd row, would like to keep
Lee Williams - good squad player, maybe a 2 year deal?

AlynDavies wrote:Blues
Richie Rees
Jamie Corsi,
Ryan Tyrrell,
Nathan Trevett,
Ryan Harford,
Gareth Davies,
Marc Breeze
Maama Molitika,
Ben Blair,
Tao’ Felise,
Martyn Williams,
Xavier Rush,
Paul Tito,
Dan Parks,
Gavin Evans,
Ceri Sweeney,
Richard Mustoe,
Gethin Jenkins,
Casey Laulala, - Munster have bid for the player.
Gavin Henson

Bolded are the ones i would keep, obviously Gav would be wanted if he plays more than the 2 matches

Laulala's head is elsewhere and he's trying too hard at the moment, i think we need to promote youth in this area.

I am unsure as to whether Gareth Davies has a permanent contract as he plays regularly for Cardiff RFC but i would keep him on board.

We have plenty of youngsters coming through, rumours of Rhys Gill coming back to the blues (would be good if Gethin goes but who knows) and i think a lot of the ones who are going are old or not up to the quality we would want.

Ospreys
Adam Jones - We all love him, but he is a bit like a old car now, expensive to run and breaks down a lot, maybe time to get that big deal abroad and top up the pension and play off his reputation. The money we will have to pay to keep him against how often he actually plays is going to be hard to weigh up.
At the half way point in the season he has made 5 starts and 1 sub appearence for the Ospreys, is that really a good return for £400k a year, which is probably what he is going to ask for to stay?

Huw Bennett - I'd like him to stay for the time being.

Nikki Walker - Injured and not worth keeping to be honest, we have Eli Walker, Hanno Dirksen, Luke Morgan, Tom Pyrydie, Tommy Bowe and shane Williams who are competing for wing spots.

Barry Davies - Probably the best full back we have, might be worth keeping him as a squad player, though if were willing to give Dirksen a run there, or even develop Prydie then it might be better to let him go.

Richard Fussell - not worth keeping, he is a good runner with ball in hand and space, but is a clown in defense and lacks concentration. He to full backs, what David James was to composure and goal keepers! I'm nervous what calamity he is going to do next every time I see him play.

Cai Griffiths - Odd one, we have a load of props, he is a massive bloke 6'2" and 19 stone, but has never really had a run for whatever reason, I think he needs an extended run of games, not just 1 game every 2 months to see if he can cut it at this level. If Adam Jones leaves it would be best to retain him.

Sonny Parker - he's 34 now and 35 this year, he has been on the slide a while and is now focusing on his business interests outside the game. Time to put him out to pasture to be honest. Thanks for the wonderful service though.

Tom Smith - Solid enough player at regional level, works very well with Tipuric. He's worth keeping provided he isn't on a bi contract.

Chancey O'Toole - Signed to cover for the World Cup, isn't used by the Ospreys. One substitute appearance against Northampton in the Lv Cup and a game against Connacht where we struggled in the game. Won't be retained.

Ken Dowding - signed from Bridgend on a 12 month deal, but hasnt featured for the Ospreys, he has stayed at Bridgend. I havent seen him play so have no idea what they will do with him.

I wouldn't mind the blues getting in cai griffiths and have him and Scott Andrews compete for the THP spot, could do both of them a lot of good.

Of that list the Scarlets should sign up:

Gareth Davies
Stephen Jones
Rhys Thomas
Richie Pugh
Jonathan Davies
Dom Day
Lou Reed
Lee Williams

Of the other regions, they should talk to:
Ceri Sweeney
Richard Mustoe
Gavin Henson

Adam Jones
Barry Davies
Richard Fussell

Martyn Thomas
Aled Brew
Wayne Evans
Andrew Coombs
Gavin Thomas
Steve Jones

I say talk to on the understanding that only a few of that list would be available/gettable/affordable.

The only Scarlet's players I'd like to re-sign are:
Nick Reynold
Gareth Davies
Stephen Jones
Andy Fenby
Rhys Thomas
Jonathan Davies
Dom Day
Lou Reed
Know Richie Pugh is probably cheap due to being on a 7's contract, but still think he is out of his depth in regional rugby. Wasn't Aled Thomas only on a short term deal too?
Of the other regions the only realistic player I'd really like to sign for us is Martyn Thomas. Isn't he originally from Llandeilo? Pretty much a future International backline is he signed - plus he'd suit our style of play.
9)Knoyle/ G Davies
10)Priestland
11)Liam Williams/M Stoddard
12)Scott Williams
13)J Davies
14) G North
15) Martyn Thomas

I heard (maybe in an interview with Darren Edwards?) that the Dragons are currently operating £1m under the salary cap, so a playing budget of £2.5m. Getting rid of a lot of the deadwood will free up even more money (players like Willis, Ben Castle, etc.). I hope we can then have scope to a) offer contracts to some Welsh talent in the Dragons region and/or in other regions (i.e. those without contracts or not getting a look in); or b) offer contracts to Welsh lads abroad e.g. in England; or c) if no Welsh talent wants to come, because at the end of the day we can't force them to come to sunny Newport, then perhaps look to overseas talent to fill specialist positions like tightead.

I know national development is the ultimate goal but the region still needs people to go and watch them, and if the product on display is poor then the fans won't come. Therefore, 1 or 2 quality overseas signings are OK in my opinion. I don't want Kiwis or Ozzies that go backwards in the scrum. Local talent can go backwards in the scrum too! If it's not available locally then you have to outsource, and the Dragons need to do that just to mount a credible challenge in the league and Europe, even the Amlin Cup. We won't get investment and sponsorship if we're crap because no-one wants to be associated with losers, so a couple of star names could bring the fans back on match days and encourage investors in thus allowing greater investment in youth for the future.

Martyn Thomas is indeed from the Llandeilo area, and he played a season for the Scarlets before signing for the Dragons. Now, logically I know he'd probably be a good signing, but we've got Sanjay and Stodds to come back to cover full back. Added to that, from a personal pov, I never liked him when we were at school together, would absolutely hate to cheer him on at the Scarlets. (although I'm sure he's a much nicer person now )

rugbydreamer wrote:Martyn Thomas is indeed from the Llandeilo area, and he played a season for the Scarlets before signing for the Dragons. Now, logically I know he'd probably be a good signing, but we've got Sanjay and Stodds to come back to cover full back. Added to that, from a personal pov, I never liked him when we were at school together, would absolutely hate to cheer him on at the Scarlets. (although I'm sure he's a much nicer person now )

Dreamer - I know a lass who was in school with at the same time as Priestland, Ken and Aled Thomas, and she ain't too happy when I speak positive about them. Must be something about knowing the players makes them a bit less likable.

Personally I think that the Scarlets should try to keep hold of them bar possible Cudd or Pugh. But even them I would be happy enough to see them stay. I would like to see us poach Martyn Thomas and/or Barry Davies back.

Think it was more to do with the fact that Martyn loved himself at school and was an arrogant arse, SS, am sure he's matured a bit by now


Awwww Barry, I would welcome him back with open arms. He just doesn't look right in an O's shirt.

Not long ago Scarlets fans were creaming their pants over all the young talent they have developed, now they want to sign everyone elses players.

what, you mean Martyn Thomas, a carmarthenshire and llanelli academy product?

Oh an also Barry, an ex-Scarlet player?

By extension then RF you'd rather see them without a regional contract than signing for the Scarlets, is that what you are saying?

gcBlues wrote:I wouldn't mind the blues getting in cai griffiths and have him and Scott Andrews compete for the THP spot, could do both of them a lot of good.

They both go backwards in the scrum and that's the exact thinking that sees Blues lose 50 odd points to Leinster. Such a terrible squad to pick from.

Griff wrote:I heard (maybe in an interview with Darren Edwards?) that the Dragons are currently operating £1m under the salary cap, so a playing budget of £2.5m. Getting rid of a lot of the deadwood will free up even more money (players like Willis, Ben Castle, etc.). I hope we can then have scope to a) offer contracts to some Welsh talent in the Dragons region and/or in other regions (i.e. those without contracts or not getting a look in); or b) offer contracts to Welsh lads abroad e.g. in England; or c) if no Welsh talent wants to come, because at the end of the day we can't force them to come to sunny Newport, then perhaps look to overseas talent to fill specialist positions like tightead.

I know national development is the ultimate goal but the region still needs people to go and watch them, and if the product on display is poor then the fans won't come. Therefore, 1 or 2 quality overseas signings are OK in my opinion. I don't want Kiwis or Ozzies that go backwards in the scrum. Local talent can go backwards in the scrum too! If it's not available locally then you have to outsource, and the Dragons need to do that just to mount a credible challenge in the league and Europe, even the Amlin Cup. We won't get investment and sponsorship if we're crap because no-one wants to be associated with losers, so a couple of star names could bring the fans back on match days and encourage investors in thus allowing greater investment in youth for the future.

Griff,

If those figures are correct on the financial side then to a certain degree its encouraging. In the way that like you said when we get rid of some deadwood and with Charteris going we should hopefully be in a good position financially to compete with the other Regions for the likes of Gill and Lewis Roberts.

My one concern amd I have said this before is I believe that the Amlin Cup is currently our correct level in Europe BUT that in itself brings problems trying to recruit the top players who, will rightly want to challenge themselves against the best.

Unfortunately its the old chicken and egg, we may struggle attracting the top players in we not in the top competition but we won't get into the top competition without the top players.

I agree Bedford, it is very much a vicious circle. What we ultimately need is star players who don't mind playing in the Amlin! I expect those will be extremely rare.

If we can keep hold of the likes of Brew, Burns and especially Lydiate nad Faletau then maybe if they have contact with players in the game who are out of contract they could influence them a bit.

The one thing which the Dragons seem to have is the 'old family' values at the Region which whilst not the draw it was years ago still old some sway with players.

Morgannwg wrote:

gcBlues wrote:I wouldn't mind the blues getting in cai griffiths and have him and Scott Andrews compete for the THP spot, could do both of them a lot of good.

They both go backwards in the scrum and that's the exact thinking that sees Blues lose 50 odd points to Leinster. Such a terrible squad to pick from.

Only improve through playing & competition

I think to be fair to Edwards he has been using Paul turners players, not his own, since taking the job he has had almost room to manouvure and bring in his own players.
It's staggering but it is possible he could of released as many as 30-35 players in 2 seasons at the Dragons if their is an exodus this season.

No I'd rather see them retained at their own regions, much more equal spread of talent. How is the Scarlets signing Martyn Thomas going to help him when they already have Williams, Stoddart, Newton etc?

Well as a Scarelts fan I already said we don't need Martyn as we ahve Stodds and Sanjay already so guess that answers your question. We don't all think he's needed.

RuckingFlanker86 wrote:No I'd rather see them retained at their own regions, much more equal spread of talent. How is the Scarlets signing Martyn Thomas going to help him when they already have Williams, Stoddart, Newton etc?

Well it is a squad game, you can imagine how much Adam Jones cost the Ospreys but he has only started 5 times and 1 sub game for us this season.

RuckingFlanker86 wrote:No I'd rather see them retained at their own regions, much more equal spread of talent. How is the Scarlets signing Martyn Thomas going to help him when they already have Williams, Stoddart, Newton etc?

Flanker the way I see it is that Stodds is injured 50% of the time, as is Martyn so theoretically they would be able to share the duties as generally one or the other would be out injured. Also I see Newton as a fly half for us, or at least a bench fly half once Steve retires, and I see Williams (and to be honest Stodds) as a winger/fullback and at home in either position. With Lamont leaving this season, then a full time first choice wing berth is open.

from a Dragons point of view

Dragons
James Leadbeater - needs a chance to prove his worth - he was class when he was at Keys and in the early part of his Dragons career!
Martyn Thomas - NEEDS to be kept!!!!
Aled Brew - should stay
Will Harries - needs to be kept!
Pat Leach - we do need option sin the centre so needs to be kept!
Tom Riley - not sure - has good and bad games
Jason Tovey - we do need him at the mo! though i know blues are still interested (and heard ospreys are too!)
Matthew Jones - personally want him to stay, however cant see it happening :/
Wayne Evans - needs to find the form he had last season, however hes done us good so we need to try and keep him
Ben castle - probably retire due to numerous injuries
Aaron Coundley - shane he hasnt had much of a chance to play
Hugh Gustafson - will probably stay due to our hooker curse and that the region are trying to convert him!
Scott Morgan -
Andrew Coombs - will probably stay
Gavin Thomas - may stay
Steve Jones - will probably stay
Hugo Ellis - not had much of a chance unfortunatley
Tonderai Chavhanga - think we may keep hold of him