Ospreys 13-16 Saracens - Post Match Discussion...

by maestegmafia Mon 12 Dec 2011, 2:05 pm

Ospreys (6) 13
Try: Gough Con: Biggar Pens: Biggar 2

Saracens (16) 16
Try: Joubert Con: Farrell Pens: Farrell 3

A couple of errors cost us. To concede a try from a charge down was very frustrating. We dominated territory and possession and some errors at crucial moments cost us. But full credit to Saracens, they have an outstanding defence and we couldn't break it down.

I can't fault the effort and attitude of the players, they went for it and didn't leave anything on the field. We couldn't ask much more than to tidy up some bits of accuracy."

by Artful_Dodger Mon 12 Dec 2011, 2:09 pm

Wouldnt be surprised if Saracens stole a narrow win they seem on good form, but at the Liberty I'll back Ospreys to win, difficult to beat there.

by beshocked Mon 12 Dec 2011, 2:28 pm

You would expect Ospreys to win. They have home advantage. They will have likely learned a lot more about Saracens than Saracens learnt about Ospreys. Ospreys haven't lost a HC game at Liberty stadium in 6 years so a tough mountain for Saracens to climb. Ospreys will feel very confident.

If you were going to back an English side to win away from home it would be Saracens though. Their away record is excellent.

It also depends which Saracens side turns up. To win they need to play like the first 50 minutes of the game at Wembley for the whole 80.

I cannot see Saracens getting the same amount of dominance in the set piece. In particular the Ospreys lineout was very poor.

Very pleasing to see Stevens show he isn't a spent force and Gill holding his own.

by BlueNote Mon 12 Dec 2011, 2:56 pm

Beshocked - you're probably right that Ospreys learned more about Sarries than the other way round.
There are some obvious areas for Ospreys to improve, and also, with a different ref, I doubt we'll see all the scrum decisions go against Ospreys even if they are/were always the ones at fault (which they were once Bevington was on)! I see it as a 50/50 game, especially as I assume Sarries won't make the mistake of taking off Hodgson.

by Comfort Mon 12 Dec 2011, 3:04 pm

have to be fair, got my shout on Gill wrong, he stood up well. The Ospreys gameplan around using the 5 backrowers never really got going and the lineout was taken apart by Borthwick.

still, the ospreys have been a different side at home (much like the dragons home and away form atm!) and I expect the return to be another close contest on the scoreboard.

Sarries are clinical away from home though so this one is up in the air.

I think after the extra preperation time, and time for some players to get back up to speed, hopefully the Ospreys can take this one. Expect Sarries to get a LBP though, will be delighted if the ospreys manage to get the TBP or deny Sarries a LBP, more likely the latter out of the 2.

Still, the win would see most happy enough I'd think.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 12 Dec 2011, 3:10 pm

Ospreys should win this game. Their aim has to be to maximise their points haul. At the very least they need to deny Saracens an LBP - but chasing a TBP could play into Sarries hands.

Ospreys certainly need a lineout coach - I understand that Martin johnson may be available.

by maestegmafia Mon 12 Dec 2011, 3:17 pm

LondonTiger wrote:

Ospreys certainly need a lineout coach - I understand that Martin johnson may be available.

The only region in Wales with a good lineout is the Dragons. It was a weapon they used well last night against Exeter.

Ospreys line out is better with Evans and Gough.

By not picking them we limited ourselves to two jumpers rather than the usual four.

by maestegmafia Mon 12 Dec 2011, 5:58 pm

Everyone who has posted has said that the Ospreys are most likely to win, therefor I would presume that they voted Ospreys.

But there are 4 votes saying that Ospreys won't win.

Maybe it would be interesting to hear a few opinions from those who don't think that the Ospreys can do it, and to hear why they think so...?

by maestegmafia Wed 14 Dec 2011, 8:44 am

Ashley Beck signed a new contract with the Ospreys, good news after a fantastic performance by him last Weekend.

The 21-year old came through the ranks at the region, playing for Skewen and Tonmawr as a junior before going through the Ospreys age-grade system and gaining valuable experience with Aberavon in the Premiership. Out of contract at the end of the season, he has committed himself to the Liberty Stadium until at least summer 2014.

An age-grade international, Beck entered the record books in November 2007 as the youngest ever player in the Celtic League when he came off the bench at the Liberty Stadium in a defeat to Leinster aged just 17 years and 222 days, a record which he still holds to this day.

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/rugby/seniors/6033.php

by beshocked Wed 14 Dec 2011, 9:16 am

I am very impressed by how many 606 v2 members have voted for Saracens. Thank you. clap

I haven't even voted yet!

Maestegmafia I cannot speak for other 606 v2 members but I will try and give reasons why people might have backed Saracens.

Saracens are the Aviva Premiership Champions. They do not lose many games. In the last two seasons and a half they have been a very tough side to beat. Saracens have an excellent away record having conquered every English ground in the last two and a half seasons.Racing Metro and Castres have also been conquered away too in Europe.

Saracens have already beaten Ospreys. There is a lot of pressure on Ospreys. How will they deal with it?

Realistically Ospreys should win this one but Saracens are certainly capable of winning.

by munkian Wed 14 Dec 2011, 9:24 am

I suspect Beskocked that the four votes were just to go AGAINST a welsh team and not based on rational thought and reason like yourself Very Happy

It'll be a close one, looking forward to it thumbsup

by beshocked Wed 14 Dec 2011, 9:37 am

Munkian why would anyone purposely go against a Welsh side? This is "the one true region", "the galacticos", why would anyone not support the team that holds the creme de la creme of Welsh rugby - Ryan Jones,Adam Jones,Ickle Shane and err.....Huw Bennett? thumbsup

This is after all the region that produced Cap'n Hook, Phillips, Byrne and the legendary Tango man.

I am biased most of the time. Got to be realistic occasionally.

17 wins at home on the trot is an impressive record for the O's. Saracens do love smashing home records though.

If Saracens are going to have any aspirations to win the HC they have to win this match. If Saracens do pull of this very tough feat then I can believe.

by BlueNote Wed 14 Dec 2011, 9:50 am

I suppose that Ospreys may have more room for improvement from the last game than Sarries - there are some obvious mistakes they can correct.

by maestegmafia Wed 14 Dec 2011, 9:53 am

beshocked wrote:
If Saracens are going to have any aspirations to win the HC they have to win this match. If Saracens do pull of this very tough feat then I can believe.

And you are certain that Saracens will beat Treviso in Italy.

by beshocked Wed 14 Dec 2011, 10:09 am

Bluenote the obvious correction Saracens need to make is play for 80 minutes not 50! Don't take off your best attacking players - Hodgson and Brits. Play ambitious and aggressive the whole time. Not sit back aimlessly kicking. Sloppy defending. Need to be better than that. We gave Ospreys too much respect in the end when we should have been ruthless. Also bringing on 7-8 players hugely disrupted our rythmn. I want to see the likes of Brits and Hodgson playing for the full 80. Also would like to see Stringer start as his pass is very zippy!

Yes I am certain Saracens will beat Treviso in Italy. You gave Treviso too much respect and they made you pay for it. Of course I am wary of them but sometimes giving less respect is good too as then you can smash teams.

by munkian Wed 14 Dec 2011, 10:19 am

beshocked wrote:Munkian why would anyone purposely go against a Welsh side? This is "the one true region", "the galacticos", why would anyone not support the team that holds the creme de la creme of Welsh rugby - Ryan Jones,Adam Jones,Ickle Shane and err.....Huw Bennett?

This is after all the region that produced Cap'n Hook, Phillips, Byrne and the legendary Tango man.

I am biased most of the time. Got to be realistic occasionally.

17 wins at home on the trot is an impressive record for the O's. Saracens do love smashing home records though.

If Saracens are going to have any aspirations to win the HC they have to win this match. If Saracens do pull of this very tough feat then I can believe.

Hey... the are humble Ospreys now, meek and unassuming, magnaminous in defeat and victory. In fact, I'd go as far to sat that they are the humblest rugby team in Europe, humble than everyone else thumbsup

by BlueNote Wed 14 Dec 2011, 11:19 am

Beshocked, I agree that keeping Hodgson on for 80 will help Sarries. But Ospreys have got some very basic stuff to sort out, including discipline, lineout, scrums...

by beshocked Wed 14 Dec 2011, 11:28 am

Saracens discipline was very uncharacteristically poor.

It's difficult for O's to do that. Especially in the breakdown when up against a very classy backrow, an excellent lineout operator like Borthwick and a frontrow who hold international player Matt Stevens!

I don't think we will enjoy the same set piece dominance but if you play two locks you'll lose some ability at the breakdown. It is the tradeoff.

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 12:22 am

The Ospreys are hoping prop Paul James, who has recovered from the hand injury he picked up during the World Cup, and scrum-half Kahn Fotuali'i (rib injury) are available for selection.

Sean Holley coach at the Ospreys wrote:
The injury list is shortening. Nikki Walker, Gareth Owen, James Goode and Alun Wyn Jones are the only ones on it, we came through the Saracens game unscathed in terms of injury.

Holley has hinted that there may be changes from the side which went down three tries to two to the Aviva Premiership side.

We have strength in depth in the back five. We may freshen it up a bit, but we went with a game plan at the weekend and by and large it worked had we not given Saracens a head start."

I think people underestimate them. They go about their work quite quietly, without much fuss, but they are English champions for a reason.

They have threats right around the park. They base their game round a good driving maul and a big kicking game.

Their defence is pretty good but we managed to break them down on only 40 per cent possession.

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 7:51 am

Osprey Scrum Half Rhys Webb wrote:As a team we're all really looking forward to Friday night now and getting on with it. Last week we went up there and although we weren't at our best we scored 26 points against one of England's best teams, the champions, and we did that without getting much possession.

That's a positive we'll take from the game on Saturday. We know that if we can get it right and up the amount of possession we get, then we can create opportunities to get plenty more points on the board.

We have to cut out basic errors, improve concentration and skills and improve our discipline. They let us down at crucial times, particularly in the first half, and it meant we made it difficult for ourselves. When you are chasing a game from the first minute because of your own mistakes it's difficult. But we didn't give up and I think we showed what we are made of to battle back for a point that could be the difference in the end.

The boys are in good spirits going into the game, we've trained well this week and we're really excited about Friday. We're really looking forward to it."

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 7:58 am

Osprey Coach Scott Johnson wrote:Disappointment is the dominant emotion I think. We're disappointed but the competition being what it is, it's probably the 'best worst' result we could have. There's a pretty quick turnaround now, we'll look at it and see we didn't do ourselves justice, but at the end of the day resolve got us a point and that's a quality that I like.

You'll talk about putting it right, but these are one of the premier teams in the Premiership. You have to give credit to the opposition as well. To come up here and just expect to win, I don't think that's paying due credit to the opposition, this is a tough tournament, we're in a tough group and they are a quality side. We're not going to take them lightly at home, playing there doesn't just give us a divine right to walk up there and win, we've got to make sure we do our job well. This is a quality side we're up against - and we're a quality side.

We came here with a game plan, we knew what we wanted to do, but were slow out of the blocks which meant we were always chasing the game and that's something we won't accept. Certain key areas of our games weren't at our best and when you play a quality team like Saracens and some things aren't firing, then you know that it's going to be tough.

It's very easy to be hard on yourself though, but when we look back on tonight we have to acknowledge that there was plenty good about what we did. I think we asked plenty of questions of them, we looked pretty dangerous when we were able to not just get our hands on the ball but to keep it and we worked two very good tries.

Saying that, our discipline let us down at times, our defence maybe wasn't what we would expect of ourselves in the first half, and that made it hard for us to build any momentum. What did impress was the resolve in this team, and the desire to fight for the cause. They certainly don't give up and I think the Ospreys supporters here today would certainly appreciate that.

We had a large following in the stadium and they made a big impression, that's for sure, and the guys appreciated it. It's just a shame at that end we couldn't quite give them what they wanted. Just as the players have to pick themselves up and go for it all over again on Friday night so do the fans and we'll need them to be with us all the way, making that kind of noise again and really showing their loyalty to the team.

We're very proud to represent them and want them to be proud of us. The Liberty isn't an easy place for teams to come, but we've all got a big part to play if we are going to keep that unbeaten record going.

When asked about the scrummaging situation at Wembley, which had seen a number of puzzling decisions go against both teams, Johnson was forthright in his opinion.

Osprey Coach Scott Johnson wrote:Scrums have become a lottery of all proportions.

It's getting to the point of being farcical, it is. I can tell you straight away, I may not be a scrum guru but I can tell you that the illegalities weren't all one way in that game. We're playing off about two scrums a match, each side, it's just short arm, free kick, penalty. That's all it is. We may as well just sit there, toss a coin and say 'who's got it this time?'. I'm sitting on the touchline saying 'it's a penalty to them, it's a penalty for us'. This is before it's going down. That's the stage we've got to. We've got to do something about the scrums because it's become farcical. Clearly it's not working.

When you are playing off that number of scrums in the game you've got to look at the issue here. It's a game for all shapes and all sizes? I'm sure both sides feel the same, both coaches feel the same. You get a penalty or a free-kick and you're not sure what to do here. It's an absolute lottery. It's got to a farcical stage.

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 12:45 pm

The teams

Ospreys:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Tommy Bowe

13 Andrew Bishop

12 Ashley Beck

11 Shane Williams

10 Dan Biggar

9 Rhys Webb

1 Paul James

2 Richard Hibbard

3 Adam Jones

4 Ian Gough

5 Ian Evans

6 Ryan Jones

7 Justin Tipuric (Capt)

8 Jonathan Thomas

Replacements:

16 Huw Bennett

17 Duncan Jones

18 Aaron Jarvis

19 Joe Bearman

20 George Stowers

21 Kahn Fotuali'i

22 Matthew Morgan

23 Hanno Dirksen

The following players were not considered because of injury:

James Goode - Back

Alun Wyn Jones - Foot

Gareth Owen - ACL

Nikki Walker - ACL

Saracens line-up vs Ospreys

15 Alex Goode
14 David Strettle
13 Owen Farrell
12 Brad Barritt
11 Chris Wyles
10 Charlie Hodgson
9 Ben Spencer
1 Rhys Gill
2 Schalk Brits
3 Matt Stevens
4 Steve Borthwick (c)
5 Mouritz Botha
6 Kelly Brown
7 Jacques Burger
8 Ernst Joubert

16 John Smit
17 Deon Carstens
18 Carlos Nieto
19 George Kruis
20 Andy Saull
21 Peter Stringer
22 Adam Powell
23 James Short

by BlueNote Thu 15 Dec 2011, 1:05 pm

That looks like a more sensible pack for the Ospreys - the set-piece should be a lot stronger his week.

by munkian Thu 15 Dec 2011, 1:14 pm

That's a strong pack ! thumbsup

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:10 pm

Munkian are you talking about the Saracens one or the Ospreys one? Perhaps both?

Mr R.Jones get shunted around a lot doesn't he? Why don't they pick him as a no 8? He obviously is not a lock. Could well prove tomorrow he is not a blindside either.

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:13 pm

I would still have preferred Barry Davis to Fussell at Fullback. Good to see Evand and Gough in the second row and Jones Tuperic Thomas in the back row. Great to see Paul James fit again and Adam will be in better shape this week too.

Very happy to see Rhys Webb keep his place ahead of the Samoan scrum half Fotuali'i. But I guess that Khan will get a run out at some point.

Looking forward to this.

Got usual seats, half way line in the East stand... Very happy indeed. I think there is about fifteen of us going. Im taking my wife son and his two lads and girl and a few mates decided to come too....! Looking forward to a good night out.

Any one else gonna be at the game?

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:16 pm

beshocked wrote:Munkian are you talking about the Saracens one or the Ospreys one? Perhaps both?

Mr R.Jones get shunted around a lot doesn't he? Why don't they pick him as a no 8? He obviously is not a lock. Could well prove tomorrow he is not a blindside either.

Have you ever watched him play?

When you write things like the above you do sound rather moronic...! You are talking about a 50 + cap international that has been on Lions tours playing blindside flanker, you have seen him play six and eight and second row for wales in the world cup. Your opinion above sounds like you are talking about an uncapped player making his ospreys debut...!

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:30 pm

maestegmafia His wiki page has all the details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Jones

Yes I have seen R.Jones play but think he is best as a no 8. He got ripped to shreds by Saracens at the lineout last weekend. He is not a lock.

His best performances have been as a no 8 when I have seen him.

He didn't really feature that much in the rugby world cup. Not as a starter anyway. Faletau took the no 8 shirt as his own. Lydiate has made blindside his own. Where does that leave R.Jones?

Slowly but surely R.Jones will be phased out of the Wales' squad. Probably going to be phased out of the O's squad at some point too.

He cannot hold onto his preferred shirt no 8. Why?

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:34 pm

Also you have to fear for R.Jones because he will up against one of the best blindsides in the NH, probably the most underrated too, Kelly Brown.

When has R.Jones played as a blindside?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:35 pm

I hate to be pedantic......(actually, I secretly love it) But Round 5 is not until January

by Comfort Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:50 pm

BeShocked, my R.Jones update for you (IMO of course)

R Jones didnt keep the number 8 shirt as he really lost his penchant for ball carrying after injuries. He used to be extremely explosive, but injuries to his knees and shoulder have really taken that strength out of his game. He now plays more like a 6 than ever, and shouldn't yet be discarded by the ospreys (at club-level he can still be excellant - much like Borthwick and his differeing performances at club/international level). Excellant work-rate and attitude, excellant in the lineout (for a backrower - he isnt a lock, yet) and his experience is vital on-field especially as the ospreys go through the transition of the Galacticos to the homegrown region they're becoming.

Hope that sort of explains why R Jones is at 6 no longer at 8 and why he couldnt hold the 8 spot down for club/country.

EDIT: he is regularly used as lock cover though as he is good in the lineout, just not against the best tactical operaters such as borthwick ( although, he should 9/10 times take apart a lock pairing made up of 2 backrowers in the lineout) and due to his experience/workrate.

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:55 pm

Yes thanks Comfort. That helps. It's just whenever I have seen him it was a no 8 so it was strange for me seeing his shunted around the pack.

If he's best as a blindside now I'll take your word on it. I was also holding onto the hope that Saracens could target him.

Saracens need to target someone. In my opinion Saracens have to try and rattle Webb/Biggar.

This is going to be a very hard match to win.

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 2:59 pm

beshocked wrote:When has R.Jones played as a blindside?

The Welsh Grandslam of 2005, the Lions tour 2005, I think he was the only Lions Test player that was commended for actually being any good by the Kiwis. He then shifted to eight with good success winning the grandslam as captain of Wales in 2008. Recently he has regularly played either, lock, blindside or number eight. He plays all three roles in the same vein... Basically doing the same job.

I can't believe you didnt know that...? Do you not watch any rugby other than Saracens and England?

by BlueNote Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:03 pm

Ryan Jones initially came to prominence as a 6.

The concerns about the Ospreys pack are (1) throwing in still likely to be more or less suspect, (2) maybe they have sacrificed a little too much mobility for grunt - a bit of generals and coaches always preparing to fight the last battle, maybe.

Sarries found space round the Ospreys defence last time, it'll be interesting to see how Holley & Co adapt to that threat.

by munkian Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:12 pm

beshocked wrote:Munkian are you talking about the Saracens one or the Ospreys one? Perhaps both?

Mr R.Jones get shunted around a lot doesn't he? Why don't they pick him as a no 8? He obviously is not a lock. Could well prove tomorrow he is not a blindside either.

I was referring to the Ospreys one compared to last week - I don't really know alot about South African players

Ryan Jones isn't a great lock - but better in the back row - getting accolades at 7 and 8

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:16 pm

Maestegmafia that was 6 years ago. Also you are partly right, partly wrong.

He played no 8 in the 2nd Lions Test 2005. In the 3rd test he was also no 8.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4640369.stm

http://www.lionsrugby.com/thetour/593.php?section=lineups&fixid=58568

I went on that Lion's tour so I expect an apology from you for getting it wrong.

I don't rate him as a lock. Let's see how he does at blindside.

Bluenote agree. You need balance.

Munkian our whole team is not South African.

Also why have you only put up the Ospreys team?

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:17 pm

I cant see the Ospreys making dramatic changes to the defence, just a touch more awareness at who is taking the ball and when. Saracens were pretty easy to read.

Saracens attacks were very simple. The two times the broke the Ospreys blitz defence the did the same miss pace to Farrell at outside center.

Though the move was quickly snuffed out as it moves the ball too wide and narrows space.

Remember two of the Saracens tries were scored from set piece defensive problems, not backline blitz defence problems. Though the Wyles try was pure class from Wyles running angle and a Brits listening to what he was being told to do.

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:26 pm

munkian wrote:
beshocked wrote:Munkian are you talking about the Saracens one or the Ospreys one? Perhaps both?

Mr R.Jones get shunted around a lot doesn't he? Why don't they pick him as a no 8? He obviously is not a lock. Could well prove tomorrow he is not a blindside either.

I was referring to the Ospreys one compared to last week - I don't really know alot about South African players

Ryan Jones isn't a great lock - but better in the back row - getting accolades at 7 and 8

When did Ryan Jones play 7? He has played regularly at 4 or 5 and 6 and 8 but i have never seen him at 7. Jonathan Thomas second cap was at 7 in the 2003 RWC game against NZ he really stood out...

by munkian Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:41 pm

I meant 6

by formerly known as Sam Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:42 pm

I'd back Sarries in this. If they keep the game tight and pressure the Ospreys as they did last weekend they should win. The controlled both set pieces and the breakdown. It will be tougher this week what with the Ospreys bulking up in the tight five but Sarries only have themselves to blame for letting the game slip away last weekend. If Hodgson and Brits play 70 mins then I think they'll have too much. Silly tactical and general mistakes cost Sarries a TBP and gifted the Ospreys a LBP. The Ospreys need to up their game in every department if they want to win.

by munkian Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:49 pm

Sarries got two pretty soft tries last game and the score was still pretty close - The ospreys will need to play well to win but 'upping their game in every department' is stretching it a bit.

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 3:50 pm

Agree Sam. Home advantage is important though.I think we'll need to go on the offensive again like we did in the first half. I don't think Saracens are going to have the same dominance in the set piece so compensation is needed. Ideally we need to blow Ospreys away at the breakdown.

Aggression and discipline are the key words in my opinion.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 15 Dec 2011, 4:13 pm

Sarries got two pretty soft tries last game and the score was still pretty close

Sarries also gifted the Ospreys one from the grubber through, Farrell got himself sin binned over nothing and the withdrawl of Brits and Hodgson allowed Ospreys back into the game. The Ospreys need to compete better at the lineout, be more agressive at the breakdown and hold their own in the scrum. Home advantage is a bonus as Beshocked says but the Ospreys need to improve significantly.

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 5:04 pm

munkian wrote:I meant 6

I thought you did. Never quite had the pace to be a good seven... Had a real resurgence in form over the last 18 months.

Vey happy to see Paul James has recovered from the hand injury he picked up in the Play off the RWC. He has become as much a cornerstone of our scrum as Adam Jones. If they with Hibbard can start to hit the form they were in together this time last year then we will be looking very good.

Though as Johnson said above, the referee's interpretation is vital. I am always proud to see that the Ospreys players, particularly Adam jones always except a decision, even when, like last week, they were being pulled out of a top hat at random.

by Morgannwg Thu 15 Dec 2011, 7:54 pm

Jon Thomas should have remained in the 2nd row with Evans, Bearman should have been at 8. Do you guys not reward form?

How long has Paul James been training? Seems a bit soon to start him. He was very fit in the RWC though. Very Happy

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 9:39 pm

I disagree mate. I think Thomas has played really well recently, at number eight... This is a good team. I think the inexperience of Tom Smith let us down, and I have always thought Bearman is a bit of a head banger...! Glad both are not in the team.

by Morgannwg Thu 15 Dec 2011, 9:41 pm

I think you should have opted for James King over Tom Smith. I think the former has the potential to be better than Tipuric. JT is a lineout option, and is mobile. Goughy isn't, which is why I would have opted for JT at 2nd row. I don't think he is effective enough picking up off the back of a scrum, not as effective as Bearman and Stowers.

by maestegmafia Thu 15 Dec 2011, 9:43 pm

I think he might be out injured...

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 10:21 pm

Still surprised you haven't put up the Saracens team.... I even kindly posted it for your benefit. The team is not completely unchanged. Smit is in the team instead of Jamie George.

by glamorganalun Thu 15 Dec 2011, 11:00 pm

The problem in the line out in the last game was the poor throwing, both Ryan and JT are very good jumpers, the first throw to Ryan was too low and easily intercepted and how many throws were over the top and too high. For information Ryan has played 7 against the Blues twice to over power their pack (under Lyn Jones). I would prefer Ryan and JT to switch over as JT gets knocked back by the centres, he is too lightweight for an 8. I could see what the coaches were trying to do as it worked well last year as R Jones was MOTM against London Irish last year in the second row with AW Jones.

The pack is better balanced this week, I could not believe they did not select Evans in the 22 last week.

Looking forward to the game.

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