Hagler/Hearns - How Much Is The Massage To Blame?

Alright lads perhaps I will be compeltely shot down for this one... Perhaps not...

Hagler/Hearns one of the most famous fights in the history of the sport, an all out action packed 3 rounds, especially in the first with everything just going out of the window. Now on the day of the fight one of Hearns entourage boys gave Tommy Hearns a massage on his legs. Manny Steward was very angry about this in Manny Stewards own words "It leaves the muscles spent"

Now I didn't take much notice of this until watching the fight again yesterday and there is a part where Hearns isn't even hurt by a punch but the commentators (Al Michaels) are saying Hearns legs look very rubbery. How much, (If at all) do you think this had an impact on Hearns' performance? The majority of the power comes from planting your feet and using your legs, if Hearns leg muscles really were "spent" due to the massage is this a reason as to why Hagler was able to walk through Hearns' right hand?

Must also say I had a massage because of a bit of a calf strain once and played football right after it because I felt fine, I started running and my legs didn't actually feel right, took me a good 30 minutes for my legs to really wake up and to allow me to run at full speed.

So what do you guys think? Just another silly conspiracy theory, or do you genuinely think it had some bearing on the fight?

Hearns was asked what's the best right hand you've thrown, Hearns replied,the right hand I hit Hagler with and the man kept coming and I thought OH OH plan B,that's from Hearns own mouth.

I don't think it had any bearing on the fight personally, I think Tommy had no problem getting his shots off, The only problem being that Hagler's head is made of stone.

I'm a sceptic though, I didn't believe that Tommy broke his hand either. I just thought it was too prime boxers running into each other at 100miles an hour, the middleweight coming off better than the welterweight.

I think it made a difference - as did the hand injury. Enough to change the outcome? Not sure.

Boxers are machismo on legs - and once the machismo comes on (Round 1) it takes an outstanding fighter to drop the BS and start to fight sensibly and box and move.

It's not really a question of could he get his shots off, it's was the real power behind them due to his legs not being correct.

Can't see the massage making all that much difference, to be honest, though I won't pretend to be an expert in how much it takes from muscles which are to be used extensively within a few hours.

I'd say Hearns appearing a little rubbery before Hagler virtually turned him full circle with that right hand was more down to accumulative fatigue - he'd taken some seriously hard punches in the first couple of rounds and had thrown the kitchen sink at Hagler, too - as we all know, Hearns wasn't quite the same when his durability was challenged. By the third he was weary at the limbs no doubt, and probably a bit dizzy up top, too.

If it was late on in the fight, maybe. But after a couple rounds? Find it hard to believe it would have much of an impact then.

Should never touch the body before playing sport, tried to play golf after a massage (i accept working a niggly injury does help) and felt like my legs had gone a bit jelly like and my balance was a bit all over the show.

Never get the girlfriend to give you a special morning surprise or evening before treat either. Had that before cricket and was shagged (pun is intended) after about an hour.

I'm still waiting to hear a boxer use that excuse for gassing....

manos de piedra wrote:If it was late on in the fight, maybe. But after a couple rounds? Find it hard to believe it would have much of an impact then.

Trust me Manos, it's much worse at the start!

I concur - most of Hearns tiredness stemmed from the unusual event of being punched back while he was on the offensive - any other thing may have had a bearing but not enough to change the outcome - or the round in which he lost.

Alex, I meant getting his shots off with power.
I have always been a skeptic of the excuses when a fighter loses and is looking for a rematch. I don't agree with giving the golden age fighters an easier time than say Haye's little toe.

Sorry for bringing a Haye into a perfectly good thread.

Hagler always had a soild chin, even if there was a chance that Hearns power was reduced, there is no evidence that Tommy could put Marvin down, However, the same could not be said of Tommy's whiskers unfortunatly, Tommy while nowhere in the realm of a glass jaw, was susceptible.
And because that's the way I read both fighters, I don't hold credence in the excuses.

But of course I could be completely wrong.

Interesting, but such a tall boxer is likely to have suspect legs, so I don't think it made a difference in the end. Happy to defer to other's more considered opinions, however

Truth is we don't know.

A massage will have a negetive effect, and I don't think a primed athlete like Hearns' legs would be giving out so early otherwise. Whether it changed the outcome? I think even with his legs under him he would have simply faced the same fate in a later round. He lost the fight when he went to war with Hagler.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Truth is we don't know.

A massage will have a negetive effect, and I don't think a primed athlete like Hearns' legs would be giving out so early otherwise. Whether it changed the outcome? I think even with his legs under him he would have simply faced the same fate in a later round. He lost the fight when he went to war with Hagler.

My opinions exactly.

The only interesting point is that, of course, Hagler had a horrific cut and might have had to be stopped if Tommy could get on his bike.

yeah JBW i watched it with headphones in and all you can hear is hearns corner screaming "BOX TOMMY BOX!!" first round was completely the wrong tactics and a possible reason as to why he was rubber legged by the 2nd.

Dunno if it had an effect, but I reckon Haglers punches to Tommy's head had more of an effect. Could be wrong though.

azania wrote:Dunno if it had an effect, but I reckon Haglers punches to Tommy's head had more of an effect. Could be wrong though.

sneaky suspicion you could be right.

I think Hearns was moving pretty well in the second round when he was trying to fight at a distance and use his jab to better effect. Unfortunately the right hand he threw in the first round did nothing to deter Hagler from coming in and once inside, the fight was only going to go one way.

Hagler jumped on Herans and to me it looked pre-meditated. I know a lot of people think the cut made Hagler throw caution to the wind but I think he'd decided that Tommy was there for the taking and that an all out war was the way to negate the Hearns jab.

I think I heard Khan say the same when he was beat by Prescott, something silly like on the day of the fight he was doing weights then had a massage.

I don't see why Hagler would come out in any other way than to drag into the trenches. He was never going to outbox Hearns. The only way Hagler beats Hearns is the way he did it. Hearns, having recently splattered Roberto Duran, was probably in love with his own power to the extent that he didn't think there was a being alive that could walk through his right hand. Machismo took over, Tommy could be too brave for his own good sometimes...

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I don't see why Hagler would come out in any other way than to drag into the trenches. He was never going to outbox Hearns. The only way Hagler beats Hearns is the way he did it. Hearns, having recently splattered Roberto Duran, was probably in love with his own power to the extent that he didn't think there was a being alive that could walk through his right hand. Machismo took over, Tommy could be too brave for his own good sometimes...

whilst all this is true... it doesnt take away the fact that tommy was massaged and made his punch less effective.

The problem, Alex, is that you're talking as if the massage having a negative effect on Hearns' punching is a matter of fact. It isn't. It's purely speculation. If Nico's earlier quote from the 'Hit Man' is accurate, then surely the matter should be put to bed?

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I don't see why Hagler would come out in any other way than to drag into the trenches. He was never going to outbox Hearns. The only way Hagler beats Hearns is the way he did it. Hearns, having recently splattered Roberto Duran, was probably in love with his own power to the extent that he didn't think there was a being alive that could walk through his right hand. Machismo took over, Tommy could be too brave for his own good sometimes...

I dont think Tommy was testing his machismo. Hagler gave him no option but to duke it out. Marv was all over him like a rash. Tommy had no-where to go but to stand and trade.

Morning lads, just on my break in work placement (final year Physio student) here and Seen this thread. I rarely like to take anything away from Hagler as he is my favourite boxer of all time and this is no different. The massage given to Tommy before the fight should not have been given by anyone other than a qualified masseuse or physio. There are relaxing massages and there are warming up massages and at a guess I'd say that Tommy's friend probably gave him one that relaxed the muscles of the legs, which was definitely the wrong thing to do. However, if this was more than an hour or so before the fight then I can't see why it would have any effect on Hearns, especially in the early stages of the fight as I'm assuming he was put through a rigorous warm-up by Steward.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps.

The Boss wrote:Morning lads, just on my break in work placement (final year Physio student) here and Seen this thread. I rarely like to take anything away from Hagler as he is my favourite boxer of all time and this is no different. The massage given to Tommy before the fight should not have been given by anyone other than a qualified masseuse or physio. There are relaxing massages and there are warming up massages and at a guess I'd say that Tommy's friend probably gave him one that relaxed the muscles of the legs, which was definitely the wrong thing to do. However, if this was more than an hour or so before the fight then I can't see why it would have any effect on Hearns, especially in the early stages of the fight as I'm assuming he was put through a rigorous warm-up by Steward.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps.

Cheers boss. Genuinely - you come into the category of all time great interventions with that post.

If due to relaxed legs, he found his warm-up fatiguing - could that explain why in part he slowed down - as he hadn't warmed up fully/properly?

That's the thing oxy. I was just thinking there that it was a convenient story for Tommy and as a massive Hagler apologist I don't want to be the man to take anything away from Marvin's legacy. However, it should all depend on how long before the fight that Hearns received the massage. I don't think that it would have effected his legs so early in the fight. And there is the possibility that Hearn's might actually have received the correct type of massage to warm up although I doubt it if it was by a random man in Tommy's entourage.

At the end of the day I think Hagler would have knocked him out sooner or later although we don't have enough details to know whether it was a deciding factor.

azania wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I don't see why Hagler would come out in any other way than to drag into the trenches. He was never going to outbox Hearns. The only way Hagler beats Hearns is the way he did it. Hearns, having recently splattered Roberto Duran, was probably in love with his own power to the extent that he didn't think there was a being alive that could walk through his right hand. Machismo took over, Tommy could be too brave for his own good sometimes...

I dont think Tommy was testing his machismo. Hagler gave him no option but to duke it out. Marv was all over him like a rash. Tommy had no-where to go but to stand and trade.

Maybe he didn't have any choice but in the first round he didn't even try. Barely used the jab, laid into Marv with uppercuts and hooks from the start, the famous jab was non existant.
Also worth pointing out the hand the staggered Hagler (and supposedly broke on impact) was on the forehead. Who knows what could've happened if it hit him on the chin. It may have been the hardest punch he ever threw, but not necessarily the best.