Terrible tackling technique or suspect strategy? Disaster waiting to happen

I read Matt Williams column in the Irish Times yesterday and he offered the opinion that "too many players now are built like Tarzan but have Jane's skill set". This is probably most evident in poor handling, passing etc. More worrying for me though, in the opening two rounds of the Heineken cup is the huge amount of side on tackles being made with the wrong shoulder.
The first thing I was taught is if a player is running to your right, you tackle him with your right shoulder and vice versa on the left. Tuck your head in round the back and bring him down. Your head has a nice cushion and no nasty knees wil smash you in the temple.
What I have seen recently is players going in with the wrong shoulder. Peter O'Mahoney v Castres is a perfect example. Player was running to his right and he went in with the left shoulder and got himself knocked out. I know he is only 22 and it could be put down to inexperience but I have seen it so often recently I am beginning to think it might be a tactic.
Are coaches worried about "soft shoulders" when tackling some of the monsters out there?
Are defenders being encouraged to tackle this way to make sure the ball carrier comes down, in effect becoming human speedbumps?

To sum up. Is tackling being coached correctly at pro level or are players lives being put at risk by using a very dangerous tactic?

I don't read Matt Williams, but this is huge. And I agree with you 100%. I saw the same thing a number of times last weekend. UFB. In one of the matches, I forget which one, the commentators mentioned it as well. I think - but don't quote me - it was a Tommy Bowe tackle. Why do you think we are seeing this so much now?

I coach my boys in their U15s, and I made a huge point in practise this week. Always head in the right position. Two key things about head/shoulder in the right place: First, it is the best way to bring someone down and not get blown away by the ball carrier (as was Tommy Bowe). Second, it is the safe way to tackle.

I don't get it. Good catch.

Submachine - this is an interesting thread and I would resubmit it with a new and more informative subject heading.

I thought that this thread might be about trying to pull women.

o mahony is well able to tackle i just think he got it wrong in the heat of an intense HC cup game.

rog is used as a speed bump and a run slower. to be fair to him he never shys away from having a go.

I agree about O'Mahoney fine player but the side on tackle is a fundamental necessity that should be executed correctly 90% of the time. I would allow 10% for an attacking player changing direction at the last moment and fatigue. What I have noticed appears to be far more prevelant than this.

I have to put it down to poor technique. I would suggest that tackling technique is taken as a given at the top level of the game and as such is not prioritised in training as much as it should be.I have no doubt that many hours are spent on the training field knocking fellas over but is the technique emphasised enough?

Alternatively (and I know it sounds improbable) are players encouraged to tackle with the wrong shoulder, thereby putting more of their body in the way? Theoretically, the defender will bring down the his oponent 100% of the time but at what physical cost?

In the one scenario I mentioned, and still not 100% sure it was Bowe, the tackler was blown away. Barely a speed bump at all. However, you might be right, which is bad. But I can't imagine players are taught to tackle with their off shoulder. Instead, from a safety standpoint, they should simply dive in front. Either way, and I hope you are wrong, doesn't seem the thing to do.

Was it Trimble's attempt on Tuilagi in the Tigers v Ulster game you are thinking off by any chance?

Yes. Thanks. Good memory, mate. He was less than a speed bump.
But, that said, I would not look forwards to tackling that guy.

doc_grey
Haven't seen it, but how would it compare to Catt's 'attempt' to tackle Lomu?

Well both guys were left for dead.
Catt was kind of trampled front on. Trimble's was more of an "I hope I don't get killed by this guy" kind of tackle coming in from the side.
Neither was good.
But I still prefer Catt's from the standpoint of being mangled.

Yeah I don't know. Trimble is a very physical guy and often goes for the big hit ball and all tackle, he just got caught with his head in the wrong place and got bounced off by Tuilagi coming a full pelt. There's no shame in that I suppose!

Catts was more a case off Lomu outweighing him by 6 stone at the time!

Yeah Trimble just got his technique wrong and Tuilagi smashed him. I remember another time in the match where Trimble managed to dislodge the ball in contact when he got it right.

It's a bit risky trying to line up Tuilagi like that, going high, because if you get it wrong! Tuilagi absolutely mangled Spence too at one stage.

I think the difficulty is playing at the velocity that they are sometimes they try to line up the player correctly but time it wrongly. Also there is so much pressure on defenses to stop attackers no matter what that they are consistently putting lives at risk. This is just one of the ways in which the game is so different now to when I started playing (not saying it's worse).

Thought this was put to bed as I haven't seen many examples recently. Step forward Cian Healy. He had plenty of time to line up the tackle but looks like he may have been slightly off balance. Having said that he was OUT COLD for at least 30 seconds and should have been hauled off immediately. Someone is going to be seriously hurt if this is not addressed.

Also why is it that when you get a bang on the head the world changes colour? I could only see in yellow for two hours after one particularly hard knee in the temple. Another time it was blue but only for a few minutes.

That incident made me so mad!

How do we teach our kids that they MUST stop playing when they take a blow to the head if they watch internationals get up and play on?

People are being seriously hurt everytime it's just that they won't notice the effects for a few years. By then it's far too late to do anything about it!

When I only little (size not age), I was still playing flanker because my technique and determination meant I would always tackle (and tackle hard) players a lot bigger than me. Size is no alternative to technique - it can help you make the hit bigger and effect a turnover but if the technique is missing you will miss tackles and it is so easy to do right that it is unacceptable

Submachine wrote:Thought this was put to bed as I haven't seen many examples recently. Step forward Cian Healy. He had plenty of time to line up the tackle but looks like he may have been slightly off balance. Having said that he was OUT COLD for at least 30 seconds and should have been hauled off immediately. Someone is going to be seriously hurt if this is not addressed.

I think this one Dr_Grey was talking about as it happened this weekend. I remember Ashton getting a knock to the head against South Africa a couple of years ago and he stayed on. It was clear he was out of it. Eventually went off after 60mins. In Martin Johnson's autobiography he says he can't remember any of his England debut as he got a knock to the head early on.

Are there any cases of players getting seriously injured due to staying on the pitch? Is it called 'compression'?

There are cases of Second Impact Syndrome noted mostly amongst American Football players especially teenagers.

It is thought that a second blow to an already concussed brain is highly dangerous and can be fatal. In fact some would say the full syndrome is almost universally fatal in teenagers.

There are many players who have suffered long term damage from repeated concussions.

There are very clear guide lines set out by the IRB about what should happen when someone suffers a head injury on the pitch starting with the player taking no further part in the match!

Halfpenny pretty much knocked himself out trying to tackle Strettle, although to be fair it was a real last ditch lunge.

MrsP. You and I always seem to get energised over issues like this. Actually, I am always very glad you drive this point. And for anyoine who reads this, this is very important subject matter. Shame it doesn't get more attention.

Hammer,
My professional opinion is there are a number of players who suffer damage or more serious damage because of staying on the pitch too long. Unfortunately it is really only now where it gets attention, and not really at the level it should. I have my theories as to why the awareness is not raised further, but that's for another time. But it is fair to say head trauma (concussion) is still mis-diagnosed and injuries/lomger term damage still happens.

At the highest levels, it is always up to the team physician whether a player might be concussed. The symptoms can appear similar to a number of things, dehydration for one, at the outset. But most players will protest they were never injured regardless. This is how we were raised and this is the internal competitiveness coming out.

But here's an example. A couple of years ago I was at a match between National 1 teams (now Championship). A younger player took a serious knock before half time and was obviously off his rocker. Unfortunately, he came out for the second half, looked worrying, and the first ruck he went into was bad. The doctor who was with me saw if first. By the time we got to the sideline the lad having convulsions and was semi-conscious. He didn't play the rest of the season and took almost a full year to recover. The club wouldn't share the results of the neurological testing with me, so I don't know about any on-going damage. But the point is this can be mis-diagnosed by professionals, so everyone need extra education.

It can happen at almost any level and is one of sport's (all sports) great dirty secrets.

Grey,

I do get energised about this indeed. Like you this is mainly from a professional out look although, without being too dramatic about it, standing on the touchline watching your 12 year old son and his team mates hold a minutes silence for the 14 year old who had died on a pitch a few miles away the week before, should be more than enough to emphasize the importance of this issue.

If going on about it on here could go someway to avoiding anyone having to do that, I will post about it as often as I can.

I agree it as all to do with technique, the same situation with the front on tackle.

Laidlaw seems to not have the right skill set in defence, he has been run over twice now in the Six nations, and it is purely because of his technique.

He dips his head down far to quickly which doesn't allow him to see which way the ball carrier is going. On the weekend he went off and don't know if it was because he got injured, but I am pretty sure it was becuae of the way he got banged up in the tackle.

He hit the french player head on in the pelvic area and his head facing down, he could ealisy have injured his neck with this method.

Becuase his head was facing toward this toes, he couldn't get his head on the correct side of the takcle and hence no shoulder was used.

This can be partially down to the attacking player also, if he sees the defending dip his head to make the tackle too soon instead of trying to run around, the fellas are so big now that targeting your momentum at the defenders head can 'bounce' the defender away from you. We seem to be only looking at it with a defensive eye on the tackler, but offenses are always evolving and looking for an edge. Even if your stopped, you have smacked the defender and he might be slower in the defensive line in 2 phases time.

Maybe I'm cynical, not sure.

Think on offence it is mostly accidental when that type of collision occurs. Did you see the Glasgow player on the weekend try to tackle Toner. His head was at chest height set for the tackle but Toner wad breaking free of a scrag tackle and was giving it the old high knees leg pump. Very nasty. Like an Orc getting in the way of an demented Ent.

Submachine wrote:Think on offence it is mostly accidental when that type of collision occurs. Did you see the Glasgow player on the weekend try to tackle Toner. His head was at chest height set for the tackle but Toner wad breaking free of a scrag tackle and was giving it the old high knees leg pump. Very nasty. Like an Orc getting in the way of an demented Ent.

Glad to see big Dev getting compared to an Ent. Not so long ago watching him take a ball into contact was the equivalent of spotting a giraffe getting taken down. I will say that he has bulked up a lot, and I reckon he might be more than the 120kg they claimed him to be.

MrsP wrote:........without being too dramatic about it, standing on the touchline watching your 12 year old son and his team mates hold a minutes silence for the 14 year old who had died on a pitch a few miles away the week before, should be more than enough to emphasize the importance of this issue.

There are no words.......

Technique is coached at all levels of the game, that I can assure you.
The issue is the mentality of every tackle being a desperae tackle in pro rugby. The importance of felling your man is paramount.

Two years ago, one of my players put in a massive hit with his head the wring side, it scared me! He got up, I took him off. Not as a precaution bug as a punishment, I asked him why he thought that I took him off and he was spot on. Mentality is what I believe is the answer, having said that, sometimes, sadly, accidents do happen.

Anybody else surprised to see Dowson on the bench for the Ireland game?
From what Ive heard he was well out of it for a while after the KO last week.

The GRTP guidelines would allow a player to return to play after a week if they are being supervised by a Doctor and have remained symptom free through each stage of their rehabilitation.

I did an article about the guidelines a while back.

https://www.606v2.com/t22009-advice-on-when-to-return-to-play-after-a-concussion