Moving the goalposts??

Oh dear!! Lets have a vote for player of the year...no, wait, it's going to go to a European, lets move the goalposts we can't have that!!

http://tourreport.pgatour.com/2011/10/24/ballots-delayed-until-after-hsbc/

Talk about blatant disrespect and desparation!!

I wonder if Keizo has been having a word in Finchem's ear!!!

I think this year there can only be one winner and that's Luke. He's not a major winner, but has the unique position of being the top money winner on both sides of the pond. Not nailed on for the ET money yet, but £1.5m in front of 2nd place is a lot to catch up to Luke's bank balance.

I see Bradley is still in the running because he won a major, but lets be honest, Luke has been world No1 and will still be No1 at the end of the season. The way in which he has dominated the game this season is awesome, and 16-top 10's is by far and away better than anyone else in the game, plus his wins on both sides of the pond.

Simpson moved ahead of him last week in the PGA money list by £200k and Luke decided that he would not have his planned week off and turned out. 5-shots down going into the last round was a hell of a lot to chase, and Finchem had paired him with Simpson all week, but Luke wasn't fased by it, and his back 9 on Sunday was special. Simpson admitted that it was like playing against a buzz saw, and he couldn't live with Luke. Great win, great season and must now be respected for what he's achieved this last couple of years. Remember he was in the top 5 last season on the PGA money list and overall he earned over £8m and this season already he's over £10m.

Well done Luke take a bow.

Doc: I don't think anyone that isn't named Keizo or Fincham would argue against anything you've said at all. It all smacks of insular, inbred PGA tour let's keep it in the yank family clan the fact they've done this. Its all aimed at hoping someone will have a good week so that's fresh in players minds when they make the ballot.

I'm not evening going to elaborate on what Lukes done/achieved this year its plain for all to see even fincham unless he's borrowed stevie wonders eyes! Luke deserves every accolade there is

No doubt the pga will find some reason to award it to keegan bradley as he's the only American to achieve anything noteworthy this year.

I do actually think they should include every event before deciding a player of the year. Can't stand or indeed understand why they pick the football awards with most of the big games to go.
That said they should decide the event list at the start, not the end of the season and as others have said it should go to Donald.

I think the comments on the link says it all.

Maverick wrote:Doc: I don't think anyone that isn't named Keizo or Fincham would argue against anything you've said at all. It all smacks of insular, inbred PGA tour let's keep it in the yank family clan the fact they've done this. Its all aimed at hoping someone will have a good week so that's fresh in players minds when they make the ballot.

I'm not evening going to elaborate on what Lukes done/achieved this year its plain for all to see even fincham unless he's borrowed stevie wonders eyes! Luke deserves every accolade there is

It's getting a bit like last year when young Rickie won the rookie of the year, when it was plain to see that Rory had blitzed him. Rickie won nothing and has only just won his first event, and the way the pga were always pairing Rory and Rickie was a joke too 'the young guns' along with Jason Day. Rory made a mess of Rickie almost every time they played together. Maybe Finchem wants Rickie to win it this year after his recent win

Rory wasn't eligible for rookie of the year last year, Rory knew that full well. It was only Westwood that made the whole thing a story thanks to his twittering.

Interesting to see the comments to the pga tour article. All to a man critising the decision and supporting Luke Donald. I would assume many of the comments are from US fans.

The date for the WGC has been known since the start of the year. If a 'good old boy' was the favourite then no way the pga would have chnged the goalposts at this late stage.

USA the land of the free and democtracy!

Diggers wrote:Rory wasn't eligible for rookie of the year last year, Rory knew that full well. It was only Westwood that made the whole thing a story thanks to his twittering.

Still strange to give rookie of the year to someone who hadn't even won a tournament at that stage.
Surely there actually was a rookie who had won a tournament that year who was more deserving but who was perhaps less media friendly.

Such as who Super ?

ScottieD18 wrote:Interesting to see the comments to the pga tour article. All to a man critising the decision and supporting Luke Donald. I would assume many of the comments are from US fans.

The date for the WGC has been known since the start of the year. If a 'good old boy' was the favourite then no way the pga would have chnged the goalposts at this late stage.

USA the land of the free and democtracy!

Oh please, the PGA tour doesn't actually represent America. Assuming you are British you currently live in a country where the govt is desperately trying to block a referendum that the public is very heavily in favour of.

Diggers wrote:Such as who Super ?

That's what I'm asking diggers, is there any point in having a rookie of the year if they've won nothing.

That a completely different question to saying that if there is a rookie of the year award, which there was, should Fowler have won. He was the right winner.

Not really, i'm saying that if there wasn't another "rookie" (hate that term) who had achieved more than Fowler then why bother having an award, because Fowler won nothing that year.
The Silver Medal isn't awarded if no one makes the cut at the Open

Of course McIlroy was eligible for ROTY last year, total sham he didn't receive it.
The Official PGA Tour season is over. Vote now.

So has every Rookie if the year in the past been a winner on tour?
Kwini, Rory accepted he didn't qualify for it, why can't you?

I'm not sure if they have or not Diggers, but I think it should at least be a pre-requisite.
Without a win it's like awarding striker of the season to someone who hasn't scored a goal.

Kwini, I think Diggers is right, I don't think McIlroy was eligible as he wasn't a full tour member at the time.

I thought that Rory was eligible last year as he was a PGA member in 2010 but had announced that he would not be taking up membership this year, hence the speculation that they gave the award to Fowler because Rory had turned his back on them.

To Rory's credit he said that as he had been a pro for a few years already he really wasn't a rookie, whereas Fowler was.

As for the moving of the goalposts this year it really is pretty poor regardless of why. The tournament dates have been known all year. I hope that it is to do with trying to get publicity for the HSBC rather than trying to engineer a US winner. And even then the marketing people have already had their pound of flesh from Donald, as him turning up to Disney gave that tournament a profile that it would never had had otherwise.

super_realist wrote:I'm not sure if they have or not Diggers, but I think it should at least be a pre-requisite.
Without a win it's like awarding striker of the season to someone who hasn't scored a goal.

Kwini, I think Diggers is right, I don't think McIlroy was eligible as he wasn't a full tour member at the time.

So what if a Rookie had a win but then missed a host of cuts and barely made the top 70 on the list, would he be more worthy a winner than someone who hadn't won but finished consistently high and made say top 30 money list... I think not...

The title of the thread is moving the goal posts and everyone is up in arms, and yet that's exactly what you are suggesting they should have done to Fowler last year.
He might not have win but I'm certain he finished higher in the rankings than a lot of previous winners.

Fowler didn't make top 30 on the money list either though.

I'm not advocating that at all Diggers, I'm merely questioning the awarding and validity of "Rookie" of the year in certain cases

super_realist wrote:Fowler didn't make top 30 on the money list either though.

Thats not the point im making and your clearly missing though SR. Regards to McIlroy v Fowler I agree Coco should have got it over the tangokid.

You said in general a ROTY award should go to a winner or not be awarded at all. My Point was say hypothetically speaking why should a Rookie gets a win then does Naff all the rest of the year be deserving of the award over say a conistent high finisher that makes it higher up the money list.. IMO the higher money list player is more deserving for his consistency

I get what you are meaning Mav, but I can't think of any "rookie" who has turned up won one tournament and then stunk the place out for the rest of the year. I agree with what you say, but I could equally ask if there were ten rookies on tour and not one of them made a cut all year would you still award someone who was just marginally better than the rest?

I just think it needs looked at. Fowler may well have been better than anyone else, but he lacked real impact, as he's still more famous for looking like an idiot than his golf.

Fair enough, but it was valid and he did deserve to win it.

I would agree the criteria needs to be looked at, as it's a very grey area as no matter what they do it all comes down to the select fews opinion rather than having a selection criteria.

Fair enough Diggers, I reckon an evening's debate over a few pints would be interesting.

Fair enough, but it was valid and he did deserve to win it.

One day Super. As long as Keizo comes as well.

If I were Olly, I'd be taking a copy of that article for the wall of the Ryder Cup dressing room next year...."Look guys this is an example of the kind of desparation we're up against. They're capable of bending the rules to limit, make sure your golf puts the result beyond doubt, go out there and thrash 'em!!!"

Not that i think the "player of the year" award should be in any doubt anyway but would love it if Luke is able to go to the HSBC and win that too!! In yer face Finchem, what you gonna do now??

Taken from the PGA site November 2010:

http://www.pgatour.com/r/2010_rookiewatch/index.html

So the PGA say Rory's a candidate and lee then kicks off about the choice of Rickie http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/dec/06/lee-westwood-pga-twitter-attack

Some choice comments from ESPN pundits debating on-line:

FROM: Bob Harig More

TO: Jason Sobel

Yes, I think you can also make an argument for Kuchar and Stricker. Both had excellent years and were in the thick of the FedEx Cup race. Stricker had two wins, Kuchar won the money title and was amazingly consistent. But in this case, you have to go with the guy with the most victories, Furyk.

If you go by that criteria, then Rory McIlory is an easy choice for rookie of the year. Not only did he shoot 62 in the final round at Quail Hollow for his first PGA Tour win, but he nearly shot the lowest round in major championship history at St. Andrews. He missed a playoff by a stroke at the PGA Championship.

Something tells me, however, that McIlroy is not a slam dunk for the honor.

I'm fairly sure that R-Mac (suspect that won't catch on) was eligible for rookie of the year in 2010, and I think the criterion was/is "first full season on PGA tour". I believe Rory said he would vote for Ricky, and Ricky said he would vote for Rory.

The definition is clearly a bit silly though - Robert Karlsson is listed as a rookie this year, for instance.

Thank you doc,
Perhaps Diggers will also accept that Rory was jobbed. (I think there was much more consternation in the US media when Immelman was awarded ROTY than there would have been if Rory had won it.)

I think there's a very good chance the same will happen to St.Luke this time round.

super_realist wrote:I get what you are meaning Mav, but I can't think of any "rookie" who has turned up won one tournament and then stunk the place out for the rest of the year.

Try Garrett Willis...

I can't realistically see Luke not winning this, whenever the cutoff closes. The most likely guy to pass him would've been Simpson, and this change is irrelevant for him cos he's not playing in the WGC anyway. Would a win for Watney or Wilson get them more votes than Luke, really? I can't see it. Don't have a problem with them including the WGC in their time frame at all, though God knows why they didn't do it from the off.

BBC are reporting that the POTY award has gone to Luuuke - or is this a different award?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/15431641.stm

Davie,
I think that is an award made by the PGA Of America (separate from the PGA Tour), and is the result of a points system, tournament wins, yes, but also "money title", stroke average etc.

Guess that would explain it Kwini - confusing with so many awards with similar titles though!

I'm guessing the football analogy would be like the League POTY and the players' POTY?

Davie,
In US Golf, they're usually one and the same but occasionally there are differences.

As for the JAS thread, here is a reasoned American view from the estimable Doug Ferguson:

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-ongolf-playeroftheyear

Hopefully this also clears up any confusion regarding Fowler and McIlroy.

PS: Note in Ferguson's article the stupidity of Garrigus's comment, Gutschewski's also. Quite apart from the fact that Garrigus has had to backtrack from other comments regarding drug use on the Nationwide Tour, not to mention his own problems, these comments highlight the anti-foreigner faction within the PGA Tour and in PGA Tour HQ. It will say a lot for Luke Donald's accomplishments, and the respect with which his game is held, if he can overcome such mindless prejudices. As Rory found out, that's not easy.

Surely the guy who wins the most money should win the money list !!, why is the fedex jackpot not included in the earnings ??

Very good article by Ferguson, but sadly highlights the insular nature of many American's and a reluctance to credit Luke with the plaudits he deserves.

Kwini Great link and a good read. In some respects I hope they vote for someone else, because the backlash Finchem and Co will get from within the game will be an embarrasment. Yes the UK media will have a feeding frenzy, but they won't see that over the pond, but there are some decent golf pundits who I'm sure will voice their unbiased opinions, and guess plenty of players will have red cheeks.

Luke's been the best player in the world all year really, but confirmed back in May when he was officially crowned world number 1. He's a long way in front of number 2 now and will start next season as world number 1, so he's the obvious and only choice - the guy's more yank than brit in some respects. Grew up over there, went through the collegiate system, has 2 homes over there and none over here, the passport is the only difference. In some respects he's a perfect professional, mild mannered, polite, plays with a smile, no tantrums, not overly long off the tee, but as accurate as they come proving distance isn't verything. Clean, well brought up family man with no baggage.

peeps,
FedEx "jackpot" not "official" money.

I think the whole POTY is a bit of a waste of time anyway. Luke has achieved an unbelievable amount this year and I don't think he'll lose any sleep if his fellow pro's (rightly or wrongly) don't vote for him.

It's only a pat on the back thing anyway

kwinigolfer wrote:Davie,
In US Golf, they're usually one and the same but occasionally there are differences.

As for the JAS thread, here is a reasoned American view from the estimable Doug Ferguson:

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-ongolf-playeroftheyear

Hopefully this also clears up any confusion regarding Fowler and McIlroy.

PS: Note in Ferguson's article the stupidity of Garrigus's comment, Gutschewski's also. Quite apart from the fact that Garrigus has had to backtrack from other comments regarding drug use on the Nationwide Tour, not to mention his own problems, these comments highlight the anti-foreigner faction within the PGA Tour and in PGA Tour HQ. It will say a lot for Luke Donald's accomplishments, and the respect with which his game is held, if he can overcome such mindless prejudices. As Rory found out, that's not easy.

That Garrigus quote has left me speechless. Unbelievably dumb.... good to see Ferguson not even bothering to hide his contempt for it!

Garrigus! Was it not Garrigus that openly admitted that when he was young he had a huge drug addiction when he was youngeer and playing golf helped him get over it with counselling....

With regards to the Ferguson piece, very good read and clears up a few things but the comments regarding why Webb should get smacks of the fact a lot of the Yanks can't accept the world exists outside of their own land, pretty much why in baseball it's called the World Series as to americans, the US of A is the world. All those other countries and Islands are just pretty patches on the Globe of America

As long as they use the same calendar for POTY purposes in the coming years is this really an issue? One year it might not be so clear and someone blitzing the field in a WGC might just give a better basis on which people can vote.

i think we would be acting a little paranoid to think this change is to prevent luke from getting it this year. I am in no way a finchemite but don't see this as him stopping an immigrant winning the POTY, the POTY not even that big a deal. He would crush the open or lee westwood or whatever euro success story given half the chance, but not this.

"Robert Garrigus said he had made up his mind before the tournament even started last week.

“I would vote for Webb,” he said. “I mean, he’s had such an unbelievable year. If you look at how many top 10s he’s made (12), it’s almost more than some guys have played in tournaments. What has he made, $6 million? That’s Tiger money, and that’s pretty special.

“And not taking anything away from anything Luke has done, but it’s pretty neat to see an American do that—finally.”

So much for looking at performance over passport on the PGA Tour."

from kiwis link - what the heck is that guy on aboiut lol

Maverick wrote:Garrigus! Was it not Garrigus that openly admitted that when he was young he had a huge drug addiction when he was youngeer and playing golf helped him get over it with counselling....

With regards to the Ferguson piece, very good read and clears up a few things but the comments regarding why Webb should get smacks of the fact a lot of the Yanks can't accept the world exists outside of their own land, pretty much why in baseball it's called the World Series as to americans, the US of A is the world. All those other countries and Islands are just pretty patches on the Globe of America

Mav, there's a staggeringly high percentage of American's who pick Russia on an Atlas as being America because it's the largest country.

I am allways in two minds when it comes to eurpoeans going on the pga tour. but id love to see all the brits(westy,donald,casey,poults,leiws,rose,mcilroy,gmac,etc,etc) and the europeans of kaymer,garcia,etc all going full out to dominate that tour for one year. take it apart then go back to the euro tour after smashing it, to obviously not devalue our tour to much.

then what would these yanks think, lol