If Froch Beats Ward Is His SMW Reign Better Than Calzaghes?

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question is in the title really.
got to weigh up the longetivity with the quality of opponents and think the two kessler fights are difficult. JC dealt with him in the uk whereas froch fought him away from home and arguably lost a hometown decision. is ward a better name than anything on JCs record?
debate

edit. and remember its just the SMW reign

Some good points there Jimmy, i thought Omar Sheika was a good fighter on Joe's record, he wasn't around for long but he could fight when he wanted to.

it will be close if Froch beats ward. Thing in Calzaghes favour is longevity and unbeaten record. Personally longevity doesn't mean that much to me if you are untested and for most of his reign Calzaghe fought no name fighters. Froch has fought a higher standard fo opp over a very short period and travelled to do it, also he would be aunified champ if he beats ward. Common foe , Froch lost to Kess who obviously Calzaghe beat.

I think Calzaghe was a greater talent but Froch record impresses me more to be honest already. I think travelling ro your victories as a boxer is a huge thing. Not many fighters do it at all let a lone well. You leave yourself open to all close decisions goign the other way (altho i though Froch lost a narrow fight with kess one card was redonk) Only sus card for me on froch W record is dirrell which i gave dirrel by 1 or 2 i think and everyone has one sus win on their W column.

Calzaghe was great for the UK, household name, great talent, but a past his prime Eubank, Kessler who was his best SM victory IMO and Reid dont rate too highly for me as a 20 fight SM reign

The Galveston Giant wrote:Some good points there Jimmy, i thought Omar Sheika was a good fighter on Joe's record, he wasn't around for long but he could fight when he wanted to.

Yeah Sheika is a name that never gets the credit Calzaghe deserves for stopping him.

manos, geat summary

Seanusarrilius wrote:manos, geat summary

Thanks, Ive had plenty of practice since the old 606 bbc days where the rule used to be every second article had to be about Calzaghes legacy.

manos de piedra wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:manos, geat summary

Thanks, Ive had plenty of practice since the old 606 bbc days where the rule used to be every second article had to be about Calzaghes legacy.

Pah, you've never had it so good Manos, Ceej would not let such a debate pass off in such an easy going manner.

haha true, those Calzaghe articles were matched only by the infestation of footy fans after hatton fights

Trust me I have nothing on Zeus/The Linguist who have dedicated the best part of their lives to Calzaghes legacy

In fairness to Calzaghe, Froch is in a very unique situation in that he has the opportunity to fight the best around him with the Super Six,

It's not ilke he has gone after the other contenders one after the other, and as we all know without the Super Six he probably would have had a few dummy's on his record.

Take nothing away from Carl with his record, but I have to say (i know ifs and buts) but if Joe was in the super 6 i dont think there is a fighter that beats him. With Froch the fights are a lot more even.

In terms of record, Calzaghe simply for years of operating at the top. Even when he had an off night he was world class, and in reality Frochs only been at this level for a little while. Pascal was nothing when they fought, and its only because of that fight that hes had the career he's had. Did nothing at SMW afterwards and hasnt set the world on fire at LHW.

Taylor was done when he fought froch, despite being seconds away from winning.

Kessler beat him imo, it was close but the correct decision was made. I would also argue that kessler hasnt ever been the same post JC

Dirrel los that fight in the early rounds by offering nothing in the way of an attack, had he been busier he ould have one, Carls tactics were awful.

He beat abraham convincingly, although I always considered him limited and is a career MW lets not forget.

so there are holes in both records, but joe stands up best for me.

However if froch beats abraham, I would like to see him fight Bute, perhaps even Martinez at a cw?

I think its debateable if Calzaghe was fighting at the top for years. As I mentioned before, he has an average of fighting one top ten ranked SMW every 3 fights. When you also factor in that SMW was a pretty weak division for the majority of his tenure there, that is a pretty damning statistic. Guys like McIntyre, Pudwill, Thornberry and Starie cant really be counted as fights at the top and there were a huge amount of these kind of fights during his reign. It also doesnt look good that the division above and below contained much better fights that werent really a big stretch away. Jones/Tarver/Hopkins/Taylor/Johnson/Pavlik/Michelsewski plus Ottke at his own weight. Its hard to explain all of these kind of fights not coming off at times when they probably should have.

Abraham post-Froch is treated the same as Lacy post-Calzaghe. Abraham had a 50-50 chance in the eyes of many beforehand. Lacy was seen as a big-banging risk for Calzaghe. Dirrell might well have won had he engaged Froch sooner, but equally he may have been caught and flattened.

Personally I'd rate Calzaghe as the more skilled of the two, but Froch has earned respect through showing his willing, more than Calzaghe did.

Calzaghe was far far better than Froch no comparison imo. Look at what Calzaghe did to Kessler who beat Froch shows the difference in class.

I like Froch alot you have to respect the guy he doesnt duck anyone and is in quality fights but lets be honest who would pick him to beat Calzaghe?

I don't know if his reign would be better but I do think his legacy as a fighter will surpass Calzaghe's.

If he wins, Froch will be a 2 time world champ, a unified champ, plus the winner of the biggest competition boxing has seen in years!!

7 Tough worldclass fights back2back is unbelievable in boxing in this day and age!!(and winning 6-1 is would be a hell of a record) And if he then goes on to fight Bute(assuming he gets past Johnson) and rematches and beats Kessler, and then steps up to light heavy he has to be considered one of britains best ever fighters.

But this is if he can past Ward, which I feel he may come up short, but either way Froch can hold his head high knowing he took on all comers, and can be proud of his fights with Pascal, Taylor, Kessler and Johnson as true boxing classics!! If the media backed Froch instead of Haye boxing would be in a much healthier place, great shame!

Waingro wrote:Calzaghe was far far better than Froch no comparison imo. Look at what Calzaghe did to Kessler who beat Froch shows the difference in class.

Froch is a better fighter now than he was then. Easy to forget he's still only had 29 fights. I'd tip Froch to beat Kessler now if Kessler comes back to the fighter he was.

Bob wrote:

Waingro wrote:Calzaghe was far far better than Froch no comparison imo. Look at what Calzaghe did to Kessler who beat Froch shows the difference in class.

Froch is a better fighter now than he was then. Easy to forget he's still only had 29 fights. I'd tip Froch to beat Kessler now if Kessler comes back to the fighter he was.

He hasn't shown he's improved - because he hasn't fought anyone who offers what Kessler offered. Essentially decent skills -good jab and solid workrate. He's fought Abraham - who turned out to be tailor made for Froch and an old Johnson.

Not saying you're wrong - but you can't make that conclusion.

Volcanicash wrote:I don't know if his reign would be better but I do think his legacy as a fighter will surpass Calzaghe's.

If he wins, Froch will be a 2 time world champ, a unified champ, plus the winner of the biggest competition boxing has seen in years!!

7 Tough worldclass fights back2back is unbelievable in boxing in this day and age!!(and winning 6-1 is would be a hell of a record) And if he then goes on to fight Bute(assuming he gets past Johnson) and rematches and beats Kessler, and then steps up to light heavy he has to be considered one of britains best ever fighters.

But this is if he can past Ward, which I feel he may come up short, but either way Froch can hold his head high knowing he took on all comers, and can be proud of his fights with Pascal, Taylor, Kessler and Johnson as true boxing classics!! If the media backed Froch instead of Haye boxing would be in a much healthier place, great shame!

Yes he'll be a 2-time champ but that DOES mean you have to have lose the belt first. Surely better to be a 2-weight unbeaten champion?

Don't get me wrong - if Froch were to beat a Dawson/Pascal/Hoppo etc - he's got a really good shout. Obviously - after proving he's indisputably the best at 168 - for the record boxrec have Bute number1 at 168.

If Froch beats Ward then yes, this debate will begin in earnest., so an enormous fight here for Carl. No scrimmaging around on downmarket, Butlins style dance competitions, Froch will have global stardom in his sights and a place as one of today's boxing gods if he can notch a win over the American hope.


If Calzaghe had rematched and beaten Hopkins, and then taken care of Dawson, that would have put him some way in front of Froch, for that surely would have seen the Welshman nudging his way into a top 5 British fighter of all time spot. As it stands things are close. Joe's got the longevity, if Froch beats the Son of God, he might just be edging things in terms of quality. To beat Bute on top makes the case for Calzaghe more difficult.

Waingro wrote:Calzaghe was far far better than Froch no comparison imo. Look at what Calzaghe did to Kessler who beat Froch shows the difference in class.

I like Froch alot you have to respect the guy he doesnt duck anyone and is in quality fights but lets be honest who would pick him to beat Calzaghe?

Look at what Pavlik did to Taylor who beat Hopkins...

I think Froch already has a better record than Calzaghe!