The horrible state of modern boxing, I blame the fans

First topic message reminder :

Morning

Having watched the weekends action which left a sour taste in my mouth and reading comments on here how Ortiz deserved it, I'm really concerned about the mindset of the new generation of boxing fans. It was a cheap shot an act you don't want to see in boxing, If Khan or Pacquiao had done it, the Mayweather fan boys would've been in uproar, so lets be honest for a moment. I've read unsavoury comments like "Mayweather shouldve sent Merchant into a grave" by one poster on here. Why ?? May I ask please ? The gentleman is 80 years old and was asking relevant questions which we would like answered, do you really want the post fight interview to be "Thanks to God, Team Money and all the people whove bathed my feet and cooked my food" and not answering the questions posted to him??

The fans today seem embrace vile rants, intolerable language from pet fighters, David Haye's "Its going to be one sided as Gang Cuddle in a bad way" Mayweathers " Mother effing this mother effing that" Does this really appeal to you, I'd much prefer a gentleman to be the face of boxing.

The fans seem to want extravagant entrances, I had to turn the tv over waiting for Haye/Klitschko entrances it was embarrassing I follow boxing not dramatic wrestling, what was the point of it?

Fighters wearing different and multi-coloured gloves these days, should be stopped.

Boxing fans need to grow up, act like men.

Thanks

TCribb

In defence of Manny, it has to be said that he leaves all that behind once he is in the ring though, and has a very exciting style. Fights like that with Cotto are worth all the pre-fight niceties.

AlexHuckerby wrote:mayweathers winning me round in truth, just sheer unpredictability much prefes someone with a personality rather than boring humble manny

You don't have to prefer either of them though, that's the whole point, just be a boxing fan.

Saying that you like one man more than another man is, well, queer.

Fists of Fury wrote:In defence of Manny, it has to be said that he leaves all that behind once he is in the ring though, and has a very exciting style. Fights like that with Cotto are worth all the pre-fight niceties.

But that gets countered with fights like the Mosley one where he should just get on with things, was basically a sign that they shouldn't have been in the same ring.

Fists of Fury wrote:In defence of Manny, it has to be said that he leaves all that behind once he is in the ring though, and has a very exciting style. Fights like that with Cotto are worth all the pre-fight niceties.

He wanted to do that with Cotto as well but Cotto to his credit was having none of it...Cotto beatdowns at the hands of Margarito and Pacquiao brought a smile to my face though.

just comparing what two men do for me how could that possibly be gay?
but in all seriousness im not picking between them its just manny is duller than dishwater and floyds charm offensive is starting to rub me the right way.

AlexHuckerby wrote:just comparing what two men do for me how could that possibly be gay?

AlexHuckerby wrote:floyds...starting to rub me the right way.

Charm Offensive Alex! If berating an 80 year old man trying to do his job is Floyd when he is trying to turn the charm on god help us if he turns nasty.

The Money Man wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:In defence of Manny, it has to be said that he leaves all that behind once he is in the ring though, and has a very exciting style. Fights like that with Cotto are worth all the pre-fight niceties.

But that gets countered with fights like the Mosley one where he should just get on with things, was basically a sign that they shouldn't have been in the same ring.

true i think ive seen audley throw more in a round than mosley did all night

AlexHuckerby wrote:floyds charm offensive is starting to rub me the right way.

His right up there with Pol Pot and Stalin in the charm stakes!!

just comparing what two men do for me how could that possibly be gay?

rowley wrote:Charm Offensive Alex! If berating an 80 year old man trying to do his job is Floyd when he is trying to turn the charm on god help us if he turns nasty.

baha he bows to no one i respect it.

coxy0001 wrote:

just comparing what two men do for me how could that possibly be gay?

it was a joke!

rowley wrote:Charm Offensive Alex! If berating an 80 year old man trying to do his job is Floyd when he is trying to turn the charm on god help us if he turns nasty.

Marchants age should be an irrelevance if he's fit to do the job - but he isn't. He's a dithering, mumbling old goat who shouldve been put out to pasture years ago. Would there be such an air of sympathy if Floyd had made the same comments to Max Kellerman? No, but because Merchant has the old duffer angle floyd is suddenly the devil incarnate. I don't approve particularly of Fliyd effing and blinding when he should be doing a straight interview, but he's right that HBO shouldve got rid of merchant years ago.

Not sure i've ever heard anyone reverse the "rub me up the wrong way" phrase...... Saying another mans charm is rubbing you up in a good way is, well, a tad bit questionable...........

Did you also have the same fantasies about Mayorga?

coxy0001 wrote:

just comparing what two men do for me how could that possibly be gay?

I feel like the happy face in the middle everytime I go up to that London place. Full of 'em it is.

Just to amplify my earlier point concerning Dempsey v Carpentier, tcribb.

You cited Haye v Harrison as being a poor match up, and few would disagree. However, since your example concerns the heavyweight division, I would ask you if you would have been better pleased to have been a boxing fan during the days when Corbett refused to put his title on the line against Peter Jackson. Or how about Jeffries, ( who would probably have fought a grizzly, had he been allowed, ) not being permitted to defend against Johnson ? Or Johnson, himself, fiddling his way through luminaries such as Tony Ross and Al Kaufmann, a past - his - best lightheavyweight legend in Jack O'Brien, a hopelessly out of his depth Ketchel, a Jeffries who was returning from a six year layoff and weighed three hundred pounds at the time he agreed to return, journeymen Flynn, Jim Johnson and Moran, and all this while genuine top notch contenders such as Jeannette, McVea and Langford were left to contest the ' coloured ' heavyweight title ? How about being a fan between 1915 and 1937, when no fighter of African origin was permitted to contest the title, despite the fact that Wills, George Godfrey and maybe even Larry Gains had the necessary credentials ? How about being a fan during the early Floyd Patterson years, when Sonny Liston and Cleveland Williams were left in the doldrums while D'Amato matched his charge with a pro debutant with the title on the line ?

The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

SBS I actually don't mind Merchant, wish he could get the words out of his mouth a bit quicker but he does not duck the tough questions and his questions to Floyd were valid. Will agree his age should be irrelevant but like to think whether it was Kellerman or anyone else asking the questions I would have called Floyd on his behaviour because it was out of order.

Well said Windy thats why none of those guys are legitimate.

Ha !

Quite so, jeff.

spinks title shot in his first fight?

AlexHuckerby wrote:spinks title shot in his first fight?

Pete Rademacher. Spinks was his 7th I believe, maybe 8th.

AlexHuckerby wrote:spinks title shot in his first fight?

Alex Spinks was in his 8th fight, Windy was referring to Pete Radmecher (sp) who fought Patterson for the title in his first pro fight.

coxy0001 wrote:Not sure i've ever heard anyone reverse the "rub me up the wrong way" phrase...... Saying another mans charm is rubbing you up in a good way is, well, a tad bit questionable...........

Did you also have the same fantasies about Mayorga?

i want floyds passionate arms around me is that want you want to hear?

HumanWindmill wrote:Just to amplify my earlier point concerning Dempsey v Carpentier, tcribb.

You cited Haye v Harrison as being a poor match up, and few would disagree. However, since your example concerns the heavyweight division, I would ask you if you would have been better pleased to have been a boxing fan during the days when Corbett refused to put his title on the line against Peter Jackson. Or how about Jeffries, ( who would probably have fought a grizzly, had he been allowed, ) not being permitted to defend against Johnson ? Or Johnson, himself, fiddling his way through luminaries such as Tony Ross and Al Kaufmann, a past - his - best lightheavyweight legend in Jack O'Brien, a hopelessly out of his depth Ketchel, a Jeffries who was returning from a six year layoff and weighed three hundred pounds at the time he agreed to return, journeymen Flynn, Jim Johnson and Moran, and all this while genuine top notch contenders such as Jeannette, McVea and Langford were left to contest the ' coloured ' heavyweight title ? How about being a fan between 1915 and 1937, when no fighter of African origin was permitted to contest the title, despite the fact that Wills, George Godfrey and maybe even Larry Gains had the necessary credentials ? How about being a fan during the early Floyd Patterson years, when Sonny Liston and Cleveland Williams were left in the doldrums while D'Amato matched his charge with a pro debutant with the title on the line ?

The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, I'm afraid your post makes me wonder when boxing fans will learn...?

It seems to show that throughout history, things never have been perfect, yet we all stick around in the seemingly vain hope...!

AlexHuckerby wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Not sure i've ever heard anyone reverse the "rub me up the wrong way" phrase...... Saying another mans charm is rubbing you up in a good way is, well, a tad bit questionable...........

Did you also have the same fantasies about Mayorga?

i want floyds passionate arms around me is that want you want to hear?

Are you 50 Cent?

rowley wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:spinks title shot in his first fight?

Alex Spinks was in his 8th fight, Windy was referring to Pete Radmecher (sp) who fought Patterson for the title in his first pro fight.

meh still farcical

HumanWindmill wrote:
The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, could I suggest that the activity of fighters in thosed days was far greater, and thus the odd tomato can was acceptable to both pundits and governing bodies?

Using Haye as an example, he fights twice between November 2009 and July 2011. One of those was Audley. Audley would have been great entertainment for fans and enthusiasts alike, IF it was Haye's 4th or 5th fight in a year.

Michaels, Sean wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:
The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, could I suggest that the activity of fighters in thosed days was far greater, and thus the odd tomato can was acceptable to both pundits and governing bodies?

Doesn't stand up when you look at the fights mentioned (by Windy and Jeff) that didn't happen at any point.

sodhat wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Just to amplify my earlier point concerning Dempsey v Carpentier, tcribb.

You cited Haye v Harrison as being a poor match up, and few would disagree. However, since your example concerns the heavyweight division, I would ask you if you would have been better pleased to have been a boxing fan during the days when Corbett refused to put his title on the line against Peter Jackson. Or how about Jeffries, ( who would probably have fought a grizzly, had he been allowed, ) not being permitted to defend against Johnson ? Or Johnson, himself, fiddling his way through luminaries such as Tony Ross and Al Kaufmann, a past - his - best lightheavyweight legend in Jack O'Brien, a hopelessly out of his depth Ketchel, a Jeffries who was returning from a six year layoff and weighed three hundred pounds at the time he agreed to return, journeymen Flynn, Jim Johnson and Moran, and all this while genuine top notch contenders such as Jeannette, McVea and Langford were left to contest the ' coloured ' heavyweight title ? How about being a fan between 1915 and 1937, when no fighter of African origin was permitted to contest the title, despite the fact that Wills, George Godfrey and maybe even Larry Gains had the necessary credentials ? How about being a fan during the early Floyd Patterson years, when Sonny Liston and Cleveland Williams were left in the doldrums while D'Amato matched his charge with a pro debutant with the title on the line ?

The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, I'm afraid your post makes me wonder when boxing fans will learn...?

It seems to show that throughout history, things never have been perfect, yet we all stick around in the seemingly vain hope...!

So we do, sodhat !

I guess that without hope we have nothing, mate.

Scottrf wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Not sure i've ever heard anyone reverse the "rub me up the wrong way" phrase...... Saying another mans charm is rubbing you up in a good way is, well, a tad bit questionable...........

Did you also have the same fantasies about Mayorga?

i want floyds passionate arms around me is that want you want to hear?

Are you 50 Cent?

heat me up some ravioli!

AlexHuckerby wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Not sure i've ever heard anyone reverse the "rub me up the wrong way" phrase...... Saying another mans charm is rubbing you up in a good way is, well, a tad bit questionable...........

Did you also have the same fantasies about Mayorga?

i want floyds passionate arms around me is that want you want to hear?

Not really, keep you and your fantasies between you and your internet service provider!

Michaels, Sean wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:
The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, could I suggest that the activity of fighters in thosed days was far greater, and thus the odd tomato can was acceptable to both pundits and governing bodies?

Using Haye as an example, he fights twice between November 2009 and July 2011. One of those was Audley. Audley would have been great entertainment for fans and enthusiasts alike, IF it was Haye's 4th or 5th fight in a year.

Bang on the money that man

Alex take that comment to mean one of two things

Scottrf wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:
The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, could I suggest that the activity of fighters in thosed days was far greater, and thus the odd tomato can was acceptable to both pundits and governing bodies?

Doesn't stand up when you look at the fights mentioned (by Windy and Jeff) that didn't happen at any point.

Scott has nailed that one, Sean.

Johnson, by way of example, fought everybody on the way up and fair play to him for that. However, his title tenure was an unmitigated and shambolic disgrace, and his ducking of Langford - in particular - was no less a disgrace than the fact that Floyd and Manny seem to be circling each other.

rowley wrote:SBS I actually don't mind Merchant, wish he could get the words out of his mouth a bit quicker but he does not duck the tough questions and his questions to Floyd were valid. Will agree his age should be irrelevant but like to think whether it was Kellerman or anyone else asking the questions I would have called Floyd on his behaviour because it was out of order.

I don't mind him when I watch footage from old fights jeff, back when he still had it. But there comes a point where you lose it and for me merchant has long since passed that point, it's like watching Abe Simpson doing the interviews! I know he's an institution within boxing broadcasting but for me he's had his day and needs to go. That doesn't excuse floyd, who's attitude was poor regardless of who was asking the questions.

Michaels, Sean wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:
The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, could I suggest that the activity of fighters in thosed days was far greater, and thus the odd tomato can was acceptable to both pundits and governing bodies?

Using Haye as an example, he fights twice between November 2009 and July 2011. One of those was Audley. Audley would have been great entertainment for fans and enthusiasts alike, IF it was Haye's 4th or 5th fight in a year.

Sean absolutely agree but even allowing for this even back in the day there were times this was taken to extremes. D'Amato made little secret of the fact he was avoiding putting Patterson in with Liston when every man and his dog knew Liston was the most capable challenger, which he was proving in the ring. Likewise Johnson's level of opposition was shocking throughout his reign and he did not even mitigate this by throwing in the odd fight against decent challengers. I am by no means defending the modern era which I have slated on more than one occasion and will continue to do so as long as nonsense like Super champions and multiple belts persists, however the general point that the idea there was every some utopian golden age really doesn't stack up

coxy0001 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Not sure i've ever heard anyone reverse the "rub me up the wrong way" phrase...... Saying another mans charm is rubbing you up in a good way is, well, a tad bit questionable...........

Did you also have the same fantasies about Mayorga?

i want floyds passionate arms around me is that want you want to hear?

Not really, keep you and your fantasies between you and your internet service provider!

Wasn't De La Hoya one of your heroes coxy?

rowley wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:
The grass hasn't always been greener to the point of its having been perfectly green.

Windy, could I suggest that the activity of fighters in thosed days was far greater, and thus the odd tomato can was acceptable to both pundits and governing bodies?

Using Haye as an example, he fights twice between November 2009 and July 2011. One of those was Audley. Audley would have been great entertainment for fans and enthusiasts alike, IF it was Haye's 4th or 5th fight in a year.

Sean absolutely agree but even allowing for this even back in the day there were times this was taken to extremes. D'Amato made little secret of the fact he was avoiding putting Patterson in with Liston when every man and his dog knew Liston was the most capable challenger, which he was proving in the ring. Likewise Johnson's level of opposition was shocking throughout his reign and he did not even mitigate this by throwing in the odd fight against decent challengers. I am by no means defending the modern era which I have slated on more than one occasion and will continue to do so as long as nonsense like Super champions and multiple belts persists, however the general point that the idea there was every some utopian golden age really doesn't stack up

Haven't got time to look into the fighters records at the moment (not good at my black and white stuff), but was Patterson an established champion at the ar5e end of his career? If that's the case I understand a certain amount of avoidance by the champ providing he is planning on stepping down. If it was 2 guys at their prime, then I take Windy's point.

One of my boxing heroes in how he fought? Who he fought at times of bum-matchmaking? Yes.

Do i care much for him outside of the ring? No. Especially now he's retired.

Fists of Fury wrote:In defence of Manny, it has to be said that he leaves all that behind once he is in the ring though, and has a very exciting style. Fights like that with Cotto are worth all the pre-fight niceties.

He does have an exciting style, more so than Mayweather but he was criticised for being excessively friendly with Mosley in the ring, and he took his foot off the gas at the end of the Margarito fight because the ref was too incompetent to stop the fight for the sake of Margarito's health, cheat or not.

Incidentally, despite its initial ridicule by some members, this has turned out to be a decent thread.......

ive just gone from blatantly being the hardest man on the board to the hardest man for floyd in an hour where did it all go wrong?

Sean Patterson was a very live contender for some years after he lost the title to Ali, even fighting him post exile so don't think we can say with any validity he was during his tail end during his title years. No blame attached to Floyd who was genuinely willing to face Liston but D'Amato absolutely avoided matching him with Liston in as shameful a manner as anything you see nowadays.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

The Money Man wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:In defence of Manny, it has to be said that he leaves all that behind once he is in the ring though, and has a very exciting style. Fights like that with Cotto are worth all the pre-fight niceties.

But that gets countered with fights like the Mosley one where he should just get on with things, was basically a sign that they shouldn't have been in the same ring.

true i think ive seen audley throw more in a round than mosley did all night

Audley is the most accurate puncher out there. All those missed shots actually were exactly as Audley had intended. (©2010 D4)

Patterson was still in his early twenties by the time he eventually stepped in with Liston and lost I think Michaels, Sean. Was a case of a fairly unestablished champion avoiding the best out there to prolong his title reign, having been beaten by Ingemar Johansson previously there wasn't much hope for him against Liston.

True boxing fans would say Floyd Mayweather had the more exciting style...if your a fight fan you would say Manny.

The art of boxing is hit and not be hit...Floyd Mayweather does this better than anyone.

Floyd Mayweather is without doubt the more exciting fighter than Pacquiao.

coxy0001 wrote:One of my boxing heroes in how he fought? Who he fought at times of bum-matchmaking? Yes.

Do i care much for him outside of the ring? No. Especially now he's retired.

Scrubs up a bit of alright though, eh?

Michaels, Sean wrote:Incidentally, despite its initial ridicule by some members, this has turned out to be a decent thread.......

if you notice most threads that start off controversial end up that way aside from manny floyd whos ducking who threads

rowley wrote:Sean Patterson was a very live contender for some years after he lost the title to Ali, even fighting him post exile so don't think we can say with any validity he was during his tail end during his title years. No blame attached to Floyd who was genuinely willing to face Liston but D'Amato absolutely avoided matching him with Liston in as shameful a manner as anything you see nowadays.

Floyd Patterson is a gentleman and one of the most underrated boxers in history.

rowley wrote:Sean Patterson was a very live contender for some years after he lost the title to Ali, even fighting him post exile so don't think we can say with any validity he was during his tail end during his title years. No blame attached to Floyd who was genuinely willing to face Liston but D'Amato absolutely avoided matching him with Liston in as shameful a manner as anything you see nowadays.

but if youre dead certain your fighter will lose whilst champ what do you do just send the lamb to the slaughter

Liston was world ranked for the first time in 1958. He had lost all but a couple of months of '57 due to his having been incarcerated.

There were calls for Patterson to meet him both prior to and after the Johansson trilogy. Floyd publicly stated, with typical good grace and sportsmanship, that he was willing to test himself against Liston. D'Amato wouldn't have it, and when Floyd went ahead and fought Liston, anyway, it caused a permanent rift between D'Amato and Patterson, resulting in their going their separate ways prior to the rematch.