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Wales vs England for the John Hartson Foundation

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Wales vs England for the John Hartson Foundation Empty Wales vs England for the John Hartson Foundation

Post by Adam D Thu 18 Aug 2011, 10:06 am

On the 8th September, an all star Wales Legends will take to the field at Pride Park to face an all star England Legends team. The match will be screened on ITV4 and 606v2 will be building up to the game with some fantastic articles.

As you may or may not know, 606v2 has chosen the John Hartson foundation to be its chosen charity for this year ( Details Here ), and all proceeds for the above match will be going to the foundation.

At this moment in time, the names of the line ups cannot be revealed but rest assured that as soon as that information is available, we will be getting you some huge names to answer YOUR questions.

So in the build up to this game, 606v2 asked the Football Blog to write a piece on the history of the fixture between the two sides. Be warned, if you are Welsh, its not pretty reading!

England v Wales: A one-sided history?

England have enjoyed a much larger share of the spoils from past meetings with neighbours Wales however the Dragons have pulled off some notable victories against their rivals, William Geldart writes.

Despite England’s far superior head-to-head record, Wales haven’t always just been Home Nation fodder; they’ve also proved to be a thorn in the side of the Three Lions over the years.
Granted, you might want to whisper it in the Valleys that out of the 100 meetings between the two sides, England have a 75% winning record, losing just fourteen times to their Welsh counterparts.

The first match between England and Wales took place at the Kennington Oval, London on 19 January 1879. England triumphed 2-1 on that occasion and also on their first visit to the Welsh capital Cardiff, on 16 March 1896, where they promptly thrashed the hosts 9-1.

This was sandwiched between Wales’ maiden win on English soil, a narrow 1-0 victory for the visitors in 1881, the game held at Alexandra Gardens in Blackburn. The Welsh would go on to record successive victories, edging a 5-3 thriller at the Racecourse Ground, Wrexham the following spring.
It would be nearly another forty years before the men in red would defeat their national neighbours again however, courtesy of a 2-1 win at Highbury in 1920.

Indeed, the 1920s and 1930s arguably represent Wales’ most successful period against England, with regular victories in their neighbours’ backyard, including a 3-1 victory in 1926 at Selhurst Park, London, in a British Home Championship match.

Swansea Town hero Jack Fowler bagged a brace and Willie Davies added a third for the away side.

Link to Wales results

Despite a smattering of similar triumphs at other grounds across England, the only win the Dragons have recorded at the ‘home of football’, Wembley Stadium was a 1-0 triumph in 1977.

Mike Smith’s side left England manager Don Revie, Kevin Keegan and Peter Shilton amongst others, fuming on an early summer afternoon in May as the aforementioned Shilton gave away a penalty that Leighton James converted for a priceless victory.

That match sparked another purple patch for the Welsh in games against England as they enjoyed another period of fine scalps.
The 4-1 demolition of their adversaries at the Racecourse ushered in the 1980s in style with Mickey Thomas, Ian Walsh, Leighton James and a Phil Jones own goal marking one of the greatest ever performances from the national side, embarrassing the likes of Trevor Brooking and Glenn Hoddle in the process.
In 1984, Mark Hughes capped his Wales debut with the only goal of the game to record another memorable win.

It would be another twenty years before the sides met again though as they were paired together in their qualifying group for the 2006 World Cup.
David Beckham’s superb chip over Wales goalkeeper Paul Jones and a Frank Lampard goal in 2004’s encounter secured a 2-0 win for England at Old Trafford, Manchester.
The Three Lions’ first trip to the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, in the return fixture of 2005 was settled courtesy of a Joe Cole strike.

In March this year, Darren Bent and Frank Lampard (and people say he doesn’t score often enough for his country...) saw England comfortably win the latest match between the two sides with the home game due to take place on 6 September, two days before the Toast the Legend’s contest in aid of the John Hartson Foundation at Pride Park, Derby.

For those thinking this potted history contains a slight Welsh bias, it’s worth pointing out some damning caveats in favour of their English cousins. For example, the Dragons managed just two victories in their first 36 games against England!

The Three Lions have scored over twice as many goals as they’ve conceded to Wales and have kept clean sheets in nearly half of those games. In terms of success in this fixture, England are well and truly on top.

You might be inclined to think that since the abolition of Home Nations games in 1984, with fewer fixtures between the two sides and a huge gulf in class and disparity in the FIFA world rankings, the rivalry would dissipate.

Just ask the sell-out 69,000 crowd present at the Millennium Stadium for the recent Euro 2012 qualifier, BBC Article here and the 9,000 travelling English hoards what they think about beating one of their oldest enemies and the thought of enjoying all of the bragging rights associated with victory.

After all, with Wales’ slide down the rankings following their resurgence in the early-noughties, there hadn’t been much in the national side’s recent history to galvanise the fans until the much-anticipated tie earlier this year.

The game saw the Millennium’s first capacity crowd for an international football match in five-and-a-half-years. The opponents for Wales’ previous sell-out were-you guessed it-England.

Are you a proud Walian hoping to one day shut up your crowing English counterparts? Or perhaps you’re a fan of the Three Lions who thinks that Home Nations rivalries are dead and only Germany and Argentina still get under your skin? Let us know your memories of this historic fixture!

William Geldart is editor of The Football Blog, a site that encourages football opinion and discussion, for the fans, by the fans. Join in the conversation at www.the-football-blog.co.uk.

I would like to offer my thanks to Will at the Football blog and recommend that you all check out the site.

So let us know your memories of this fixture and please tell us if you are intending on going to the game!

Finally - don’t forget to donate - we know times are hard but it is for an excellent cause - 606v2 Charity Page




Last edited by Hobo on Fri 19 Aug 2011, 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Aug 2011, 10:12 am

Cue Steffan beginning an all out assault...

Makes interesting reading, does that.

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Post by Beer Thu 18 Aug 2011, 10:18 am

Excellent work, Hobo. You've put a great amount of effort in to this.

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Post by The Womble Thu 18 Aug 2011, 12:31 pm

Can't wait to see this. He was one of my favourite players when he played for Wimbledon (even if it was only for a short time). Its a great cause to support and I applaud everyone involved in setting it up.

Great work Mr Hobo.
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Post by The Womble Thu 18 Aug 2011, 12:48 pm

Just donated
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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Aug 2011, 12:53 pm

Thanks very much

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Post by tarka Thu 18 Aug 2011, 1:01 pm

we've got Johnny Hartson
Scoring goals for fun...
everytime the whistle blows
he scores another one

common' the Hoops!

Love this man

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Post by Adam D Thu 18 Aug 2011, 1:14 pm

Can we keep the thread on topic please - although it is a great cause, this thread isnt designed to have a discussion about who or whats is given to charities. If you want to donate, there is a link at the top, if you dont, that is fine also.

Its disrespectful to the writer of the piece to take it off topic - a lot of effort went in to it- I will be moving all of the off topic comments. Nothing wrong with them, just not relevant.


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Post by Smirnoffpriest Thu 18 Aug 2011, 2:57 pm

Great cause, I didn't know it was going on - and a really interesting piece, I remember reading that Wales had a good(ish) side back in the 20's and 30's (of course Cardiff had their win against Arsenal in the 20's) and wasn't Eddie Hapgood Welsh?

Fair play to Hartson, it was great seeing him have a run out when the Celtic XI played a Man U XI the other week. Good cause and really good work Hobo

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:02 pm

Donated - good luck

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:07 pm

Thanks Smirnoff, appreciated.

Looking forward to the announcement of the lineups etc for this event!

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Post by Union Cane Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:14 pm

As an English / Welsh half-breed I'm in a no-lose situation when Wales play England.

Strangely though I would consider myself an England fan when it comes to football but a Wales fan when it is rugby.
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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:17 pm

Makes sense I suppose, Union, given that England is a predominantly footballing nation, and Wales is predominantly rugby.

I am 1/4 Welsh, and as such don't support them, but likewise don't mind when they win.

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Post by Adam D Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:18 pm

I have a provisional list of names that I cant yet reveal.

However, lets have some fun and make some guesses to see how close you can get!

Both teams are made up of former players and TV/ Movie celebrities. I can't reveal if you are right just yet though.

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Post by Davie Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:19 pm

Tom Jones and Shirley Bassey

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:22 pm

Katherine Jenkins (if I'm right, can I interview her?)

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Post by Union Cane Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:22 pm

GK Neville Southall

RB Anthony Hopkins
CB Chris Coleman
CB Rob Brydon
LB Zeta Jones

RM Tom Jones
CM Vinnie Jones
CM Robbie Savage
LM Un-named Premiership Footballer

CF Ian Rush
CF John Hartson


Last edited by Union Cane on Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Legal Reasons)
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Post by Celtic Warrior Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:24 pm

I should know some of these because Hartson revealed a few when he was interviewed at the Celtic Legends Vs. Man Utd Legends match but I've completely forgotten.

I believe Savage is captain though. (Probably wrong)

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Post by The Womble Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:27 pm

I expect that Gethin Jones will be playing. I expect Vinnie Jones to play too.
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Post by Smirnoffpriest Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:35 pm

I think Imogen Thomas will be upfront with Giggs coming in just behind her...

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:37 pm

Ha! Brilliant.

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Post by Derbyblue Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:49 pm

I know who some of the players will be, also one of them won't be John Hartson as he is the Wales manager.

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Thu 18 Aug 2011, 4:02 pm

Derby - I'd hope John would get a run on for a minute or 2 at the start or end of the game.

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Post by Steffan Thu 18 Aug 2011, 6:01 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Cue Steffan beginning an all out assault...

Makes interesting reading, does that.

Not a lot I can say really. Followed Wales football over 20 years now. Been a season ticket holder for 6 of them. Disappointment in 93 and 03 as we just missed on qualifying. Employing that clown John Toshack to take over after all the hard work Mark Hughes did took us years (and many Fifa places) back. Sadly I think Gary Speed is not the answer either. Lots of talent in players like Bale and Ramsey. Just getting them all fit and playing always seems to be a task though. Cant realistically see us qualifying for a major tournament anytime soon but who knows I guess would love Gary and the boys to prove me wrong

As for England. Still a top football nation although so many teams are catching like African nations England are gonna find every World Cup (and Euros) a harder challenge everytime. England will always be a name in the hat and often make the last 16 or quarters but they have fallen behind other nations and the England team of nowadays never looks as good as the ones of the past. Too many non-English players in the Premiership or just plain football evolution who knows but realistically its hard to imagine England ever getting to the semis of a major tournament again never mind winning one

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 18 Aug 2011, 6:08 pm

Probably about right, for the foreseeable future at least, mate.

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