Ireland vs France, 20th August, AVIVA Stadium

First topic message reminder :

Marc Lievremont has named his side to face Ireland on Saturday, making 13 changes from the team that won in Bordeaux. Meanwhile, Declan Kidney has brought back several experienced players including O'Connell, David Wallace, Heaslip, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy as Ireland's preparations step up a gear. Special mention for Felix Jones, making his first start for Ireland, who looks well positioned to be our World Cup bolter should he grasp this massive opportunity.

The game will be held in the AVIVA Stadium on Saturday the 20th August, Kick-off is at 5pm.

IRELAND Team and Replacements

15 - Felix Jones (Shannon/ Munster)
14 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)

1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/ Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/ Leinster)

FRANCE Team & Replacements:

15 - Cédric Heymans (Toulouse)
14 - Maxime Médard (Toulouse)
13 - Aurélien Rougerie (Clermont Auvergne)
12 - Fabrice Estebanez (Brive)
11 - Alexis Palisson (Toulon)
10 - David Skrela (Toulouse)
9 - Morgan Parra (Clermont Auvergne)

1 - Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse)
2 - Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Francais)
3 - Nicolas Mas (Perpignan)
4 - Pascal Papé (Stade Francais)
5 - Lionel Nallet (Racing Metro 92) (capt)
6 - Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier)
7 - Louis Picamoles (Toulouse)
8 - Julien Bonnaire (Clermont Auvergne)

Replacements:

16 - Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan)
17 - Fabien Barcella (Biarritz Olympique)
18 - Julien Pierre (Clermont Auvergne)
19 - Raphaël Lakafia (Biarritz Olympique)
20 - Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz Olympique)
21 - Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier)
22 - Vincent Clerc (Toulouse)

Feckless I think both our scrum and lineout will cost us come the WC but I don't think there is a magic bullet to sort either.

I think Flannery is a more reliable thrower than Best but our lifters arenot up to scratch, our lineout call are too obvious and without Ferris we only have 3 lineout options. I think it will be a weakness no matter who the hooker is.

The good news is that it is much more likely to be a problem against Italy than Australia who aren't likely to be kicking to touch. Best's mobility, defence and work in the lose could be much more important than Flannery's throwing against Australia.

Guarantee whoever starts at hooker we will continue to lose lineouts if; 1) our tactics are bad (consistently call to the back even when we are in trouble, and know the opposition are competing) and 2) the lifting is as bad as it was against France.

Remember, we lost a lineout in Frances corner- throwing to O'Connell at the front- after Best had been replaced. Just poor timing to blame. And the call might as well have been telegraphed.

I think our lineout has been incredibly creaky for a while now. Its not just one thing. When it goes wrong its three or four things.

There are multiple errors in the lineout everytime. If it isn't straight, and there were a couple, then its the hookers fault. If it shoots over the top it is either lifters, the jumpers timing or the hookers throw. If it is stolen by the opposition getting in front of you, to me that is the lifters and jumpers fault as they make it too obvious for the opposition to send up someone to compete. All these things happened in quite a few recent games.

I also think we are taking too long in the lineout to make our shifts and throw in the ball. Quicker tempo, call the lineout option as you approach instead of once we are set and the oppo are looking for the call/tell in the formation.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not saying Best isn't partially to blame. When we start losing his linouts his game falls apart. He's either good or pretty bad. But he could be nailing every throw and we'd still be losing lineouts here.

I don't have much confidence in Smal to sort it out in time.

I have my doubts about Smal too. But he has a new two year contract. I don't think Gaffney deserved one and I don't think Smal did either. The scrum was also pathetic until Ross and Feek appeared.

I know Hayes was hailed as a great lifter but his absence can't explain such a deterioration in our lineout. Is it the lack of height in our backrow which is the main problem? Rory Best isn't all to blame and he adds a lot away from the lineout but his I don't have much confidence in his throwing under pressure.

It's probably a mixture of all these reasons. But can anyone explain to me why we don't even attempt to contest the oppositions ball? Is this orders from Smal, or part of Les Kiss's defensive system?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:There are multiple errors in the lineout everytime. If it isn't straight, and there were a couple, then its the hookers fault. If it shoots over the top it is either lifters, the jumpers timing or the hookers throw. If it is stolen by the opposition getting in front of you, to me that is the lifters and jumpers fault as they make it too obvious for the opposition to send up someone to compete. All these things happened in quite a few recent games.

I also think we are taking too long in the lineout to make our shifts and throw in the ball. Quicker tempo, call the lineout option as you approach instead of once we are set and the oppo are looking for the call/tell in the formation.

The teams we've done well against haven't competed. Scotland, France and South Africa have picked us part with ease in the last 15 months. We're just too predictable.

Part of the reason I think we need Ferris and Heaslip together in the backrow is we need four potential jumpers.

Notch wrote:Yeah, exactly. I'm not saying Best isn't partially to blame. When we start losing his linouts his game falls apart. He's either good or pretty bad. But he could be nailing every throw and we'd still be losing lineouts here.

I don't have much confidence in Smal to sort it out in time.

I disagree with this. The match on saturday was the first time I remember the rest of his game falling apart. Usually when he goes to bits in the lineout he still performs in the loose. I'd be confident that our lineout will go well in the world cup. It won't be perfect but I don't see us losing as many as we have recently.

ballroomhero wrote:Would you take Bowe, B'OD, D'Arcy and Ferris all without meaningful game time?

Bowe, Bod and ferris go if they are fit or will be fit, imo, they are too good to leave out, each one of them could be regarded as in the top 5 in their position in the world on their day. Darcy needs to be fully fit and have proven in before I would bring him.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I have my doubts about Smal too. But he has a new two year contract. I don't think Gaffney deserved one and I don't think Smal did either. The scrum was also pathetic until Ross and Feek appeared.

I know Hayes was hailed as a great lifter but his absence can't explain such a deterioration in our lineout. Is it the lack of height in our backrow which is the main problem? Rory Best isn't all to blame and he adds a lot away from the lineout but his I don't have much confidence in his throwing under pressure.

It's probably a mixture of all these reasons. But can anyone explain to me why we don't even attempt to contest the oppositions ball? Is this orders from Smal, or part of Les Kiss's defensive system?

You can't blame smal for the scrum, he has to work with what hes got. I think smal has been very important for the breakdown area which is a major strength of the irish team.

There are problems with bests throwing and hayes is missed but the main difference is that the irish pack used to be the munster pack plus simon easterby. The fact that easterby was a genuinely world class lineout option and the fact that the rest of the pack used to play with each other week in week out made it a lot easier. They should be able to overcome this and I'm sure they will. Bests throwing technique isn't great and its probably to late to change it now, so they have to adapt. The thing with hayes lifting was that he could get poc high enough to contest opposition ball quickly enough. He played with poc so much that he could tell what to do by where poc stood, it was natural and it is very hard for ross to replicate it. Instead of stealing ball the plan seems to be to sack the maul and compete for the ball on the ground. I'd prefer if we started attacking the lineout again.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply his all-round game falls apart. Just his throwing. His technique is actually fine, it's when he's under pressure he starts making mistakes.

Notch wrote:Sorry, I didn't mean to imply his all-round game falls apart. Just his throwing. His technique is actually fine, it's when he's under pressure he starts making mistakes.

His technique is fine, but it could be a lot better. He lobs the ball as opposed to throwing it like a dart and it is noticeably different to flannerys. I think flannery has a better technique and it throws it lower and quicker than best. Cronin has poor technique. Annett and Sherry seem to have the same technique as flannery but they have to eliminate the way the move the ball backwards before they throw it in. Flannery starts with the ball behind is head and it doesn't move until he throws it in. Flannery isn't always perfect from touch but is technique is nearly perfect.

Met one of the lads in the supermarket.

Team for Saturday is

Murphy, Earls, O'Driscoll, Darcy, Trimble, Sexton, O'Leary, Heaslip, Wallace, Ferris, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Ross, Flannery, Healy. McFadden, Court, Hayes, in the subs.

That would be a great team Pot and a great shout if you are right. Slightly surprised that Murphy is included though

I would be disappointed if Murray didn't get game time.

Or Jones for that matter. You would imagine SOB, Jones and Murray would be benching if that was the team although with 2 props we would drop and outside back i imagine..

Standulstermen wrote:Or Jones for that matter. You would imagine SOB, Jones and Murray would be benching if that was the team although with 2 props we would drop and outside back i imagine..

Well stringer is in the munster squad for the weekend which would leave you to believe that murray will get time against connacht or france.

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:Sorry, I didn't mean to imply his all-round game falls apart. Just his throwing. His technique is actually fine, it's when he's under pressure he starts making mistakes.

His technique is fine, but it could be a lot better. He lobs the ball as opposed to throwing it like a dart and it is noticeably different to flannerys. I think flannery has a better technique and it throws it lower and quicker than best. Cronin has poor technique. Annett and Sherry seem to have the same technique as flannery but they have to eliminate the way the move the ball backwards before they throw it in. Flannery starts with the ball behind is head and it doesn't move until he throws it in. Flannery isn't always perfect from touch but is technique is nearly perfect.

I suspect the call is for that, as I've seen him execute a variety of throws. Different lineout calls will use different styles of throw.

Pot Hale wrote:Met one of the lads in the supermarket.

Team for Saturday is

Murphy, Earls, O'Driscoll, Darcy, Trimble, Sexton, O'Leary, Heaslip, Wallace, Ferris, O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Ross, Flannery, Healy. McFadden, Court, Hayes, in the subs.

...met one of the lads in the supermarket?

That would be a good team, I'd be happy with that bar Reddan-Sexton clearly combine much better than TOL-Sexton. Ferris, D'Arcy and O'Driscoll all back is the best we could have hoped for to be fair.

I'm also glad there are two props mentioned. I hope that bit is true, we need specialist cover on both sides of the scrum when we play the French.

It could be Hayes chance to oust Buckley imo

That too. It's sad, but I'd almost rather the big man went. He can actually still scrum a little.

Let's hope Mike Ross holds up okay. John Andress really should be on that plane, but thats an entirely different story.

Which big man Notch

I think any sort of decent display will see Hayes on the plane

Pot that team wouldn't surprise me too much. I'd have expected TOL,Flannery, D'arcy, BOD and Murphy to come in.

The only things that stand out are that if they are starting Ferris then that indicates that he will be the starting 6 if fit.

I'm surprised by two props on the bench? That suggests we'll either be going with a 5/2 split on the bench or Ryan on the bench instead of SOB to cover the backrow and 2nd row.

If Earls is starting at 14 rather than 11 that could indicate serious doubts about Bowe.

Team is named today. Anyone putting up a separate thread or should we keep it here?

I think keep Ireland v France discussion here, a new one for Connacht game.

We're going to keep it here I think. Looks unlikely I'll be around but I've asked munsty to edit the OP when the team is named for me.

That team looks good, I would however be disappointed if Murray and Jones weren't involved int he French game somewhat so hope part of the info is wrong.

I see the point in playing TOL with Sexton to see if they gel better but they really do seem to clash.

It also makes Sexton look really bad compared to when ROG comes on with another 9 too but hey whatever I guess.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:It also makes Sexton look really bad compared to when ROG comes on with another 9 too but hey whatever I guess.

Sorry don't mean that as a jab, I really don't but it does make Sexton perform worse cos he has to change his game by standing deeper.

Like I said, it makes sense for them to play together in this game to try and develop more of a partnership.

Again apologies if that seemed like a sly dig

Dont apologise pete its a Mulster conspiracy

They are trying to take us down,
If they had it there way they would play

Court
Best
Hayes
DOC
POC
Ferris
wally
leamy

O'leary
ROG

Trimble
wallace
earls
bowe
Jones

D24-

That's actually a really good team!

Just began praying that Murray and Jones are in the 22 for the French game! I need me one of these bad boys!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sorry don't mean that as a jab, I really don't but it does make Sexton perform worse cos he has to change his game by standing deeper.

Like I said, it makes sense for them to play together in this game to try and develop more of a partnership.

Again apologies if that seemed like a sly dig

You are spot on Pete so don't apologise. TOL and Sexton go together like chalk and cheese and I cannot understand why Kidney persists with such a poor partnership which takes away all Sextons strengths by making him stand deep.

Sexton is a far better player when he plays with Reddan or even Boss. I'd imagine Murray and Sexton would be an excellent combination too.

good team come off it

Wallace cant defend
Hayes cant scrummage

ROG DOC POC are all past it and dont get me started on best and leamy

No the only answer is for ireland to where the leinster jerseys and only play leinster players.

Yeah Rodders, I just don't want it to seem like an attack though at the same time or a WUM.

I really want to see Murray+Sexton

Hey what time is the team announcement?

Normally at 1pm Rodders, the stream is on the web currently, but not live from the press conference yet.

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton



Why oh why does Kidney keep doing this??

How do you know, its only being announced now

Bod is back

Post the team!!!

Ireland v Connacht

Geordan Murphy
Johne Murphy
Cave
Keatley
McFadden
Wallace
Boss

Buckely
Cronin
Hayes
MOD
Cullen capt
McLaughlin
Jennings
Leamy

Varley
Horan
Ryan
Ronan
Murray
Whitten
Hurley


France Team

Jones
Trimble
BOD
Darcy
Earls
Sexton
TOL

Healy
Best
Ross
DOC
POC
SOB
Wallace
Heaslip

Flannery
Court
Ferris
McCarthy
Reddan
ROG
Fitzgerald

Here's a thought.

The 'supermarket' team is actually showing DK's hand.

Bring in Bowe and Kearney for Murphy and Earls and it could be what HE considers his best XV

Buckley at loosehead again.
Ferris is back, good news.
Murray and boss in a shoot out for last scrumhalf place.

geoff998rugby wrote:Here's a thought.

The 'supermarket' team is actually showing DK's hand.

Bring in Bowe and Kearney for Murphy and Earls and it could be what HE considers his best XV

Murphy is playing in the connacht game, earls will probably start if he does well this week and ferris will start if fit.

I hope he doesn't consider O'Leary to be in his best XV. I think he's a liability and if Sexton is starting we're far better off going with his provincial partner, Reddan. I think Felix Jones might be good enough to oust Kearney from the starting XV by the end of the World Cup anyone agree?

Thats a fantastic Irish team. O'Leary is the only real worry for me.

Keatley in at 12? McFadden on the wing? I guess Keatley is there as cover for Wallace, but don't really see why he starts when they could have given McFadden a run in the centres.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I hope he doesn't consider O'Leary to be in his best XV. I think he's a liability and if Sexton is starting we're far better off going with his provincial partner, Reddan. I think Felix Jones might be good enough to oust Kearney from the starting XV by the end of the World Cup anyone agree?

Maybe by the six nations, don't think it will do it before then. I think jones and fitz are going to make the 30 with mcfadden missing out if these teams are anything to go by.

Thanks Val

Interesting stuff. The plot thickens...

That suggests that TOL and Reddan are the 1st choice 9 & 10 and it's between Murray and Boss for the final 9 spot.

McFadden isn't really in consideration as a centre but might make it as a winger if Bowe is out but realistically he's out of the frame.

Jones is ahead of Murphy and looks very close to nailing a spot on the plane.

McCarthy is still in the frame which suggest either that Ryan hasn't secured his spot on the plane yet or that there are still concerns about Ferris.

Hayes may go as Buckley seems to be out of the frame as a TH.

Looks like Jones is being given serious consideration. Murray im not so sure about after all he is only benching for the connacht game. Shame as i would rather see him than TOL or Boss.

Good to see 1F back in and around the squad. Surely this is trimbles last game though?

Kearney is our most underrated player, he is a world class full back
Who despite the propaganda on here can attack and attack very well

Jones wasnt good enough to take his place at leinster and i dont think he will be good enough to take his irish place