Who is in the first choice team for YOUR NATION...!

Interesting debate on another thread where a Welsh poster says that he thinks that the Welsh Coaches dont know their first team. I think he is write.

But I also think most coaches going into this world cup do not know their FIRTS TEAM.

If you know yours un-equivicoally...? Then please nail your colours to the mast.


If you are welsh take a guess.

Wales
15 Lee Bryne
14 George North
13 Jamie Roberts
12 Jonathan Davies
11 Shane Williams
10 James Hook
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun-Wyn Jones
4 Bradley Davies
3 Adam Jones
2 Matthew Rees
1 Gethin Jenkins

I guess that's Wales's first choice team.

Scotland :-
15 Paterson
14 Evans
13 Ansbro
12 De Luca
11 S Lamont
10 Jackson
9 Cusiter
8 Beattie
7 Brown
6 Barclay
5 Gray
4 Kellock
3 Cross
2 Ford
1 Jacobsen

Replacements:- R Lamont, Morrison, Hines, Laidlaw, Walker, Murray

England (on the big assumption that everyone is fit and on some sort of form):

Sheridan
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Palmer
Croft
Moody
Easter

Youngs
Flood
Cueto
Hape (I know, should be almost anyone else, but...)
Tindall
Ashton
Foden.

Bench
Corbisiero
Thompson
Deacon
Haskell
Care
Wilkinson
Bananaman (perhaps we should nickname him Eric?)

AlynDavies wrote:Wales
15 Lee Bryne
14 George North
13 Jamie Roberts
12 Jonathan Davies
11 Shane Williams
10 James Hook
9 Mike Phillips
8 Toby Faletau
7 Sam Warburton
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun-Wyn Jones
4 Bradley Davies
3 Adam Jones
2 Matthew Rees
1 Gethin Jenkins

I guess that's Wales's first choice team.

Alyn,

I think that's what Gatland probably sees as his 1st choice but it not mine. I would have Delve over Toby (even as a Dragons fan) and still not sure about Phillips at No9

France (out of the current squad and also on the big assumption that everyone is fit and at their best...)

barcella
servat
mas
nallet
pierre
dussautoir
picamoles
harinordoquy

yachvili
Trinh-Duc
Médard
Mermoz
Rougerie
Clerc
Heymans

subs : Swazerwski, Ducalcon, Millo-Chlusky, traille, parra, ouedrago, Palisson.

was more tough to select the subs and end up with traille...the team is rather balanced on the forwards between line outs skills and power (thats why you cant have both millo and picamoles at the same time - although its something I'd like to see someday ...)

This will be MY first choice if I have been the coach for the last two years and exposed the players timeously, also assuming everyone is fit

1 Beast Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Andries Bekker
5 Victor Matfield
6 Heinrich Brussow
7 Juan Smith
8 Willem Alberts
9 Francois Hougaard
10 Patricl Lambie
11 Bryan Habana
12 Jean De Villiers
13 Jacque Fourie
14 JP Pietersen
15 Frans Steyn

16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Guthro Steenkamp
18 Bakkies Botha
19 Schalk Burger
20 Fourie du Preez
21 Pierre Spies ( I would have made him a midfielder by now)
22 Gio Aplon

dummy_half wrote:England (on the big assumption that everyone is fit and on some sort of form):

Sheridan
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Palmer
Croft
Moody
Easter

Youngs
Flood
Cueto
Hape (I know, should be almost anyone else, but...)
Tindall
Ashton
Foden.

Bench
Corbisiero
Thompson
Deacon
Haskell
Care
Wilkinson
Bananaman (perhaps we should nickname him Eric?)

Incorrect. I don't think England's best team can even be picked from our EPS at the moment, especially seeing as you admit that your team can only function under the [impossible] assumption that everyone is playing their very best and that Hape shouldn't even be there, but then strangely enough is there anyway...

I think our best team would look more like:

1 - Stevens
2 - Hartley
3 - Cole
4 - Lawes
5 - Palmer
6 - Croft
7 - Wood
8 - Haskell
9 - Youngs
10 - Flood
11 - Banahan
12 - Allen
13 - Tuilagi
14 - Ashton
15 - Foden

16 - Thompson
17 - Corbisiero
18 - Attwood
19 - Easter/Robshaw/Moody/Narraway/Dowson (take your pick depending who [if anyone] you want to take off)
20 - Care
21 - Wilkinson
22 - Cueto

Allen is too small to play international rugby at 12. IC is tricky. Until Twelvetrees gets game time I think the best chance is either Banahan becomes a regular at 12 for Bath (quite likely) or Sarries change style and Barritt plays (difficult to say how likely this is). The other possibility is Tuilagi moves across.

As for the earlier England side, I think that's right except Stevens would be on the bench instead of Corbisero.

I would be surprised if Tuilagi makes the 30-man party since he has not been selected to be even on the bench this week.
He showed glimpses last week of his potential but I'm sure Martin Johnson noticed how inexperienced he was at times.

Cymroglan wrote:I would be surprised if Tuilagi makes the 30-man party since he has not been selected to be even on the bench this week.
He showed glimpses last week of his potential but I'm sure Martin Johnson noticed how inexperienced he was at times.

I disagree I think the 4 centres will be the 4 starters in the last & next games. MJ needs a different sort of player in the centre & he Manu definitely has the X factor. I see him as an impact sub & starter in the less important group games.

SuperGuinness69 wrote:

dummy_half wrote:England (on the big assumption that everyone is fit and on some sort of form):

Sheridan
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Palmer
Croft
Moody
Easter

Youngs
Flood
Cueto
Hape (I know, should be almost anyone else, but...)
Tindall
Ashton
Foden.

Bench
Corbisiero
Thompson
Deacon
Haskell
Care
Wilkinson
Bananaman (perhaps we should nickname him Eric?)

Incorrect. I don't think England's best team can even be picked from our EPS at the moment, especially seeing as you admit that your team can only function under the [impossible] assumption that everyone is playing their very best and that Hape shouldn't even be there, but then strangely enough is there anyway...

I think our best team would look more like:

1 - Stevens
2 - Hartley
3 - Cole
4 - Lawes
5 - Palmer
6 - Croft
7 - Wood
8 - Haskell
9 - Youngs
10 - Flood
11 - Banahan
12 - Allen
13 - Tuilagi
14 - Ashton
15 - Foden

16 - Thompson
17 - Corbisiero
18 - Attwood
19 - Easter/Robshaw/Moody/Narraway/Dowson (take your pick depending who [if anyone] you want to take off)
20 - Care
21 - Wilkinson
22 - Cueto

SuperGuinness

I was only listing the team I think the coaches would list as the first choice picks at this moment in time, not necessarily the one I think is the strongest. DaveH is right that Stevens could well be named as the reserve prop rather than Corbs, but other than that I think the team I listed is dead on what Johnno would pick in an ideal world.

dummy_half

That would be fine except the whole premise of the article was whether coaches know what their actual strongest team was and my point is I don't think our strongest possible team could be made out of our EPS. What team you think Johnson will pick, in relation to this particular article, is irrelevant.

DaveM

I'd rather have an inside centre who is "small" for an international as opposed to an inside centre who can't pass well enough or defend in position at international level. Banahan seems to play a far more unnatural and uncomfortable game when he is moved into the centre from wing.

A further argument for Allen's inclusion, is that by playing him, England would be putting out the same cohesive 9,10,12,13 unit which is put out every week by England's best club team. This would additionally address the issue of losing Tindall's defensive organisation and leadership, as all four of these players would be completely in sync and comfortable both defensively and in attack.

However, I think you might be right about Corbisiero. I changed him and Stevens round about 3 times before I published the post as I couldn't make my mind up.

Finally, another selection I wasn't sure about is Dave Attwood on the bench. He's more dynamic and ferocious than Deacon, but possibly not as good at the front of the line out, and certainly not as experienced.

Cymroglan

See the above paragraph regarding justification for Tuilagi's inclusion. Also note that he may not be included this week because Johnson is planning on playing him against Ireland, which I think at this point could be likely.

As I recall Banahan has only been used at 13 by England, and I think he's going to be a better 12. International rugby is a big step up, and I don't think Allen sets the AP alight, although he's very efficient and fits in well at Leicester. MJ clearly doesn't rate him, and there are three options for next season in Banahan, Barritt and Twelvetrees who I think would be better suited to international rugby at 12.

I see your point. I like Banahan but I just think he's more effective on the wing because he just seems much more comfortable there and also Flood is the type of player who runs at holes to draw defenders and creates a lot of space for his wings to burst into off his inside shoulder (as we saw in the 6 Nations). Banahan could be at his most useful by implementing these types of running angles.

However, we could very well see him at 12 in the near future (World Cup group games?) so let's see how he does if given the chance. I'm almost certain he's played there once before for England but my memory isn't good enough to be able to comment on the matter. Although that does lead me to assume it was an average performance at best.


You're right that Johnson clearly doesn't rate Allen. Similarly, he clearly doesn't rate Barritt either, which is strange and disappointing seeing as he seems to love bringing in foreigners (Shontayne Hape!? Is he actually joking? Seriously give it a f***ing rest). I'd much prefer Barritt to Banahan at 12 as well.

I think what I was trying to get at by choosing Allen alongside Tuilagi is that Richard Cockerill is a far more experienced, established and decorated coach than Johnson, which makes me feel that if we can play the midfield that has served him so well and dominated the league over the last few seasons (which obviosuly includes Allen as a very important component) then that's a far better option to go with than the laboured, slow, one dimensional pairing of Hape and Tindall (one would have to admit that the centres has consistently been Johnson's worst area of selection and I refuse to believe that's due to a lack of adequate players to choose from). This also leads me to highlighting that if Twelvetrees was good enough as you suggest he is or might be, Cockerill would be picking him over Allen. At the moment he isn't doing so, therefore clearly he sees Allen as more capable and that's an opinion I would respect.

Supeerguiness is right, that pretty much is Johnons first choice team currently, most likely change being Stevens on the bench.
Unlike Wales England have a pretty settled side and clear direction

I'd say Deans knows the team he wants, but form and particularly injury means it is unsettled. Percentages represent Numbers I have made up re how likely each of the still injured players are to getting back, based on stories written about them this week. Whether they or others then find any form is another question.

Benn Robinson (30%)
Tatafu Polota-Nau (90%)
Sekope Kepu
James Horwill
Nathan Sharpe
Rocky Elsom / Scott Higginbotham
David Pocock
Wycliffe Palu (50%)
Will Genia
Quade Cooper
Digby Ioane
Berrick Barnes (50%)
AAC
James O'Connor
Kurtley Beale

Stephen Moore
James Slipper (95%)
Rob Simmons (100%)
Elsom / higgers
Luke Burgess
Pat McCabe
Drew Mitchell (50%)

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Supeerguiness is right, that pretty much is Johnons first choice team currently, most likely change being Stevens on the bench.
Unlike Wales England have a pretty settled side and clear direction

PSW

I presume this was meant to refer to the team I listed (which is the team MJ has been picking as far as possible for the last 18 months), not the one SG preferred

Alyn Davies

Your team is pretty close but:

Jones must be first choice 10 (Hooks performance against France settled that argument). Also Ryan Jones can't be discounted at 8. I think Hook may end up at 13 with either JD or Roberts inside him.

I think the Ireland 1st choice XV right now is probably something like:

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Brian O'Driscoll
12 Gordon D'arcy / Paddy Wallace
11 Keith Earls
10 Jonny Sexton
9 Eoin Reddan/ Thomas O'Leary
8 Jamie Heaslip
7 David Wallace/ Sean O'Brien
6 Sean O'Brien/ Stephen Ferris
5 Paul O'Connell
4 Donnacha O'Callaghan
3 Mike Ross
2 Rory Best
1 Cian Healy

Bench: Tom Court, Jerry Flannery, Leo Cullen, Stephen Ferris/SOB, Reddan/TOL , Ronan O'Gara, Andrew Trimble/ Luke Fitzgerald

Does the problems of the Welsh not knowing their top team stem from the fact that although all agree that Hook is a shoo in for the team no-one seems able to decide his best position? He gets moved every game it would seem, with people on here then saying he should be at 10. Or 13. Or 15. Or wherever he hasn't been put. This then means that people aren't sure on the best people for all the other positions because they depend on where Hook is playing.

It's just a thought and obviously I realise it doesn't explain the forwards.

As for the England Centres debate, I think the whole "not big enough" argument is rubbish about Allen. If your good enough, you're big enough. Same as if your good enough, you're old enough. If someone is the best England qualified player in their position then I think they deserve a chance to show they can cut it at international level. This applies to everyone, not just Allen (who I realise it could be argued isn't the best).

I'm not saying that the team should change every week on form, but that if someone has consistently played better than the people in the squad for a whole season (as Allen has compared to Hape and Flutey in my opinion) then they should get a chance to show what they can do at international level.

dummy_half wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Supeerguiness is right, that pretty much is Johnons first choice team currently, most likely change being Stevens on the bench.
Unlike Wales England have a pretty settled side and clear direction

PSW

I presume this was meant to refer to the team I listed (which is the team MJ has been picking as far as possible for the last 18 months), not the one SG preferred

Sorry yep it gets confusing with all the quote trees.

As you say hes been consistently building a team, and the backs division ifor Saturday shows he hasnt changed his mind about that area at least. Theres been nothing in his squad trimmings or selections or the performances of player sso far to suggest any radical changes to his first choice, and relativly succesful, lineup will be made.
England have a clear plan.
Same for Ireland.
Noone has a clue who will lineup for France or Wales in the first game of the WC.
Scotland fall somewhere between the two.

I have to agree...Banahan has ALL the attributes for a very good 12. And in his brief flirts with it at Prem level his result have been mixed...though he was exceptional in one game.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I have to agree...Banahan has ALL the attributes for a very good 12. And in his brief flirts with it at Prem level his result have been mixed...though he was exceptional in one game.

He wasnt born in England
His games is based on power
He cant kick very well
He has the guile and elussiveness of a moose

Yep ticks all the boxes for current selection policy at 12

good one

Scotland should look something like this against Argentina in my view:

1.Jacobsen
2.Ford
3.Cross
4.Hines
5.Gray
6.Brown
7.Barclay
8.Beattie
9.Cusiter (c)
10.Jackson
11.Danielli
12.S Lamont
13.Ansbro
14.Evans
15.Paterson

16.Low 17.S Lawson 18.Kellock 19.Strokosch 20.R Lawson 21.Parks 22.De Luca

The difficult calls in naming the above 22 are whether to have Strokosch or Rennie on the bench at 19 (I went for Strokosch because of the versatility with Brown), which scrum half to have on the bench (I want to see more of Laidlaw in a Scotland jersey before making up my mind) and most difficult of all, whether to have Morrison at 12 and S Lamont on the wing instead of Danielli.