Defensive Leppers

Following on from an earlier article about tough defenders i thought we'd go the other way and see about a team of the very worst defenders going.

Here's mine:

1. Tim Payne
2. John Smit
3. Dunnings
4. AWJ
5. Mumm
6. Powell
7.
8. Kankowski
9. Pienaar
10. Q Cooper
11. Tait
12. Darcy
13. Olivier
14. Balshaw
15. Cipriani

Any help with the other positions?

You can't possibly have John Smit in that side!

Dougie Hall for Scotland can't throw, can't scrummage and can't pass. I've also never seen him make a decent tackle. Scott Lawson is another option if you want a yellow card magnet at 2.

Dan Parks pushes Cipriani all the way at 10. Perhaps Cipriani at 15 where he used to play for Wasps, and Parks at 10.

Before Beshocked sees this thread, I'd better nominate Hendrie Fourie at 7 (although I'll leave it to him to use his favourite statistic).

Poitrenaud or Trialle at 15 is worth a shout as well.

Darcy?? Eek don't really agree with that, one high profile miss thats all.

Good luck finding backrows who can't tackle. Easter? To slow to catch someone to tackle them!?

Is DC really worse then Q Cooper???

OzT wrote:Is DC really worse then Q Cooper???

Mid-Super XV Cips was marginally ahead of QC on the tackle stats from memory, I don't know how they finished up at the end.

15. Foden.

Pierre Spies? Big bloke but a bit of a show pony.

Its got to be Cooper at 10, such a bad defender, gets puts in the wing spot for defence and even there he gets gassed on the outside



10 Cooper

15 Cipriani



I'd have AWJ up there at lock as well, he likes to shy away from the hard work

"Mid-Super XV Cips was marginally ahead of QC on the tackle stats from memory, I don't know how they finished up at the end."

Will be hard to tell as Cips played less games then Q cooper, so by end of season not possible to compare.

I would rate cips a bit more though, least he does make an effortT

John Smit, when he was at his peak, he was good, watch this tackle in 2009.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmj8KfOLFmg

And how was this for skill?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcqg6GoAnWg

not sure why smit is on this list!?! thanks biltong, that catch is a great clip, havn't seen that in a while!

Surprised Ronan O'Gara is being ommited here, hardly a collosus in defence either is he.

Although "Desperate" Dan Parks redefines saloon door in terms of his tacking prowess.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Pierre Spies? Big bloke but a bit of a show pony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHeWrl1Klw

Not so much!

You could have a backline of English 10s - Cipriani, Lamb, Hodgson...

Surely Balshaw needs to be in there at 15. Equally Chris Patterson can't tackle for toffee and gets turned over all the time when in possession, so a real defensive liability.

Chris Ashton 11/14

I would say DOC over Parks. Parks may not knock them back but he does occasionally hang onto their ankles...

Not Patterson at 15....think what he did to Foden in the 6N this year

HongKongCherry wrote:Equally Chris Patterson can't tackle for toffee and gets turned over all the time when in possession, so a real defensive liability.

That is probably one of the most mis-informed posts I have ever seen on either 606 or 606v2.

Paterson is a small man but he is one of the best tackling full backs in the Northern hemisphere. His tackles against Foden and McLean in the 6N demonstrate a skill he has honed to perfection.

Sure one on one most big backs will turn him into roadkill ala Lomu and Mike Cat, but Patterson positions himself very well by reading the game and always takes out these bigger guys out with a fantastic technique and very good timing, instead of just standing in their way to get trampled.

I'm not sure why you would say he can't tackle for toffee since he did exactly what a full back should do in back to back games for Scotland in the 6N, and that is make try saving tackles as the last line of defence.

He also does that sort of thing week in week out at Edinburgh too

biltongbek wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Pierre Spies? Big bloke but a bit of a show pony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHeWrl1Klw

Not so much!

I backed you with John Smit, but can't on this occasion fella. Spies has the physique to be a brute, but doesn't use it. Great on the hard pitches, open games of Super Rugby, but not up to it at the top level and that's why they are considering moving Schalk there, because Vermeulen and Alberts are not quite ready and you can't drop one of Brossouw, Schalk, Smith!!

Stoddart has to be in this team. Recently improved, but deserves to be there just for those 'attempted' tackles on Percy Montgomery. O'Gara also.

Having said all that, I would have Kankowski ahead of Spies on the 'shying away from hard work/physical/tackling stakes'

ROG!!! Of course, the irish speed bump certainly needs to be there

Bathite wrote:ROG!!! Of course, the irish speed bump certainly needs to be there

That one actually made me laugh out quite loudly in the middle of an open plan office.

Cheers mate!

Bathite wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Pierre Spies? Big bloke but a bit of a show pony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHeWrl1Klw

Not so much!

I backed you with John Smit, but can't on this occasion fella. Spies has the physique to be a brute, but doesn't use it. Great on the hard pitches, open games of Super Rugby, but not up to it at the top level and that's why they are considering moving Schalk there, because Vermeulen and Alberts are not quite ready and you can't drop one of Brossouw, Schalk, Smith!!

Thanks for backing me up on Smit, but let's be fair to Pierre Spies ( He is not my biggest hero, but still have to defend the man)

He is playing in the wrong position, I have said this many times, he played wing at school, and for whatever reason moved to no 8. He has speed and strnagth, the problem is he uses the wrong technique to outmuscle forwrds, he is too upright and doesn't get underneath his oponnents, someone should explain physics to him. He will be a great center.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:Equally Chris Patterson can't tackle for toffee and gets turned over all the time when in possession, so a real defensive liability.

That is probably one of the most mis-informed posts I have ever seen on either 606 or 606v2.

Easy RuggerRadge. Having based my opinion on Patterson after spending a year watching him at Gloucester it is quite a valid opinion. His tackling was woeful and sides caught on very early just to kick the ball to him and turn him over in the tackle. Admittedly that solitary season he spent with us was probably the worst of his career, but I have seen nothing to suggest he has suddenly become a defensive guru.

11. Shane Who.

nottins wrote:11. Shane Who.

Shane Bond,,,,, Oh no sorry he plays cricket.

nottins wrote:11. Shane Who.

Considering his size he tackles and defends well above his weight, try again

Bathite wrote:Its got to be Cooper at 10, such a bad defender, gets puts in the wing spot for defence and even there he gets gassed on the outside



10 Cooper

15 Cipriani



I'd have AWJ up there at lock as well, he likes to shy away from the hard work

Of course. This is genius. Have you considered a stab at becoming the SA coach? you seem over-qualified to continue PDV's legacy.

The season he spent with Glaws was a tough one for him. Patterson was poorly handled at Scotland, and had played I think everywhere from 10 to 15 and he was never given a chance to settle.

I agree in his Glaws days he was poor at tackling. However since then he has become something of defensive Guru when making those sweeping bootlace tackles since being played regularly at 15 by Edinburgh.

Didn't mean to make it look like I was jumping down your throat though mate

Cheers gents,

So still looking for a lock, 5 and prop so far.

How could i forget balshaw! sadly can't fit ROG in there though, maybe as a super sub...

biltongbek wrote:

Bathite wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Pierre Spies? Big bloke but a bit of a show pony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHeWrl1Klw

Not so much!

I backed you with John Smit, but can't on this occasion fella. Spies has the physique to be a brute, but doesn't use it. Great on the hard pitches, open games of Super Rugby, but not up to it at the top level and that's why they are considering moving Schalk there, because Vermeulen and Alberts are not quite ready and you can't drop one of Brossouw, Schalk, Smith!!

Thanks for backing me up on Smit, but let's be fair to Pierre Spies ( He is not my biggest hero, but still have to defend the man)

He is playing in the wrong position, I have said this many times, he played wing at school, and for whatever reason moved to no 8. He has speed and strnagth, the problem is he uses the wrong technique to outmuscle forwrds, he is too upright and doesn't get underneath his oponnents, someone should explain physics to him. He will be a great center.

Thats really interesting and explains a lot, I didn't realise that. Is it common opinion amongst boks that he should play there? Surely a better option for all involved? You seem to churn out top top back rowers and have plenty that can't get near the SA squad, but very few centres have impressed me, just JDJ, JDV and Fourie so far, I would say and I guess JDV might retire after WC?

Cheers Ruggerradge

Yappy, you could choose almost any Australian prop at 3!

Now that he has turned to the dark side how about Dave Attwood at 5? He's going to spend half his career banned

TheGreyGhost wrote:

Bathite wrote:Its got to be Cooper at 10, such a bad defender, gets puts in the wing spot for defence and even there he gets gassed on the outside

10 Cooper

15 Cipriani


I'd have AWJ up there at lock as well, he likes to shy away from the hard work

Of course. This is genius. Have you considered a stab at becoming the SA coach? you seem over-qualified to continue PDV's legacy.

Thanks mate, im actually weighing up two coaching jobs at the moment, SA and Ospreys. Apparently Im over qualified for both, its a tricky decision

Bathite, you only need to be able to keep your answers to the media to yes and no, and you've got the job.

There has been no indication that Jean de Villiers is retiring, he and Jaque Fourie has only moved to the WP two years ago, add to that he is just turning thrity, he mich still play for a while.

For a lock I have seen Ian Evans slip off loads of tackles. Sidoli worth a shout?

Dean Mumm is an option at 5, with the additional benefit of providing nothing in attack either.

boomeranga wrote:Dean Mumm is an option at 5, with the additional benefit of providing nothing in attack either.

That's harsh, why is he playing rugby then?

Surely there is AFL , Rugby League or cricket, perhpas lawn bowls.

"How could i forget balshaw!"...

Na, Cips is worse than him by a long shot!!!

Dunnings for prop who is a revolving door

AFL he'll need to catch and run and jump, NRL he'd need to run AND tackle, so guess it's rugby for him then!!

Woa the Wallabies are lucky!! LOL!

Biltong - Apologies to JDV, didn't realise he was that young, must have been a tough paper round!

biltongbek wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Pierre Spies? Big bloke but a bit of a show pony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALHeWrl1Klw

Not so much!

I'm not sure how 4 minutes of watching Spies charging around in the backs disproves my point - awesome athlete though he certainly is.

Hong Kong, funny and true about the Oz props, although i fear that's changed now days though...

You'll have to forgive Attwood one day, you never know he may do a reverse Barkley and come straight home after 1 season. Some people do see the light.

funnyexiledscot, he is an excellent footballer, as I explained earlier he was a wing at school, and should move to the back line, he certainly has enough speed.

A showpony?

Aren't they normally all brushed down, their tails neatly combed and they walk around a ring with their heads high as if they have smelt something.

"Aren't they normally all brushed down, their tails neatly combed and they walk around a ring with their heads high as if they have smelt something."....

Now that's no way to describe Percy mate!! He was a great tackler!!!!

munkian wrote:

nottins wrote:11. Shane Who.

Considering his size he tackles and defends well above his weight

OzT wrote:"Aren't they normally all brushed down, their tails neatly combed and they walk around a ring with their heads high as if they have smelt something."....

Now that's no way to describe Percy mate!! He was a great tackler!!!!

In Percy's defence (pardon the pun), he didn't have calves, wehn looking at him from the front, there were quads, and then only shinbone, no calves.

saddened not to see any fellow frenchmen here considering there is only 2-3 top tacklers (dussautoir, servat) in the french team since chabal heydays finished.
some of our regular centres (someone mentionned traille and poitrenaud but rougerie and marty are probably worst) deserve more a place in your team than d'arcy.
6N game against ireland was obvious, they probably were bothered to defend properly during 10 minutes (before heaslip score): rest of the game was just waiting for the irish to make some mistakes.

biltongbek wrote:funnyexiledscot, he is an excellent footballer, as I explained earlier he was a wing at school, and should move to the back line, he certainly has enough speed.

A showpony?

Aren't they normally all brushed down, their tails neatly combed and they walk around a ring with their heads high as if they have smelt something.

By the term showpony I meant he does all the flashy eye-catching stuff very well, but neglects the grunt work and defensive work ethic required of a top number 8. Obviously there isn't an 8 in world rugby who can't tackle, but in terms of number 8's in international rugby guilty of neglecting defensive duties, then Spies is your man.