Is it time for Groves to leave Haymakers Promotions??

Been noticing a few comments on here about the lack of publicity for Groves since his win over DeGale, so I think it warrants a topic all on its own.

Since Groves's win against DeGale I doubt many has heard a peep from him, or his promotional team on his plans/future fights. Yet with DeGale, he's been in the press on a regular basis, whether it's to do with him going over the reasons for his defeat to Groves or to what future fights he's looking for to get his career back on track.

Then, if you combine this lack of promotion for Groves with Haye's recent poor showing and the fact he's retiring soon, do you think Groves should be considering leaving Haymaker promotions to join elsewhere? Will Haye's own promotion company be able to function as well when he's retired at the end of the year? Admittedly Groves is still a novice in boxing terms with just 13 wins to his name, and there's maybe a lot of loyalty to stick with Haye/Booth.

If you where in Groves boots, what would your plans be? Hell..would he even consider going with Warren?

It is a tricky one Kev, would seem a little harsh to leave on the back of a cracking and largely unexpected win and with him still unbeaten but do have to raise a few questions about why Hayemaker have not been able to build on the positive press and reaction to the win because would have thought it was a bit of a situation where he would not have been short of offers and personally think not capitalising on this opportunity is a bit of a dropped ball by them.

As someone who absolutely feels prospects do not fight anywhere near often enough nowadays is definitely more than time Hayemaker got something moving for Groves. Would probably say leaving would be harsh but do feel he would be well within his rights to make a bit of noise and tell them to get their fingers out.

I don't see any reason for him to change his promotional team at all, personally. Without meaning to sound disrespectful in any way, he's a domestic level fighter at this moment at time, and there is nothing in his achievements so far which warrant the massive exposure some seem so disappointed he's not had. Granted, it would have been nice to see him at least have his next opponent and date lined up by now, but as many have already pointed out, that doesn't seem to be the Hayemaker way. Haye's fights were always sparse, usually opting for quality over quantity, and it seems that Booth wants to take the same route with Groves.

He fights on Sky, the same as most other top fighters in this country, so as his fights get progressively bigger (which they will) I'm sure the exposure and recognition will come. As far as I'm concerned, his fame is pretty good for a domestic level operator. The comparison with DeGale can be a little misleading, I reckon; Olympic medallists are always put on a slightly faster track to superstardom than some of their contemporaries.

I think he should certainly change trainers, Haye's performance against Wlad whoeed just how limited Booth actually is!

You can't fight every fight on the back foot and expect to win!

From what I understand Groves has been on holiday having a well-earned rest after his biggest ever fight. Just because he takes a break for 6 weeks, people are calling for him to change promotors. Bizarre!

From memory he did quite a bit of publicity after the fight, did TV stuff etc and then went to Germany as part of Team Haye.......

Is it just me, or does the kid deserve a bit of time off?!!?

No he doesn't

rowley wrote:No he doesn't

This isn't back in ol'days down't'mines where you didn't have 'olidays

Weekend in Skeggy would have done him.

Didn't he have "big news" to reveal "soon" about 5 weeks ago? I don't Twit, so I might have missed it if it was his Gran's 70th or something, but I'm sure I read that he'd said he had an announcement.

i dont agree with taking 6 week holidays after every fight, maybe when he is at world level, but a young up and comer needs to jump on every oppertunity, be focused and needs to get rounds under there belt

i would move promotors, think even the name hayemaker is probably damaged, and lets be honest, there not exactly known for striking when the iron is hot. i think matchrooms would be good for him, or if he is going to have a few more domestic matchs then maybe hennesy if he can promise his fights shown on terrestial

eddyfightfan wrote:i dont agree with taking 6 week holidays

Try telling that to all the teachers who went on strike

Steffan wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:i dont agree with taking 6 week holidays

Try telling that to all the teachers who went on strike

didnt agree with that either, wish i had a job with 6 weeks summer holidays, 2 weeks after chrimbo, 2 weeks in easter to weeks in autum, bank holidays, no work when it snows...... bloody moaners

eddyfightfan wrote:wish i had a job with 6 weeks summer holidays, 2 weeks after chrimbo, 2 weeks in easter to weeks in autum, bank holidays, no work when it snows......

Become a teacher then.

Obvious isn't it?

Union Cane wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:wish i had a job with 6 weeks summer holidays, 2 weeks after chrimbo, 2 weeks in easter to weeks in autum, bank holidays, no work when it snows......

Become a teacher then.

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He needs to be more active - but I wouldn't sign with Warren. Signing with fish-eyes would be akin to Witter signing with Warren all those years ago - ie done to get that all elusive shot at Hatton and never getting it.

I see this question as coming partly in relation to Haye's most recent fight, which shouldn't be the case IMO. Despite Haye's great disappointment, he has promoted Groves very well up to this point and with that in mind, you certainly can't say Haye the fighter and Haye the promoter are the same thing.

What I'm saying is that ultimately, Groves shouldn't consider leaving because his promoter lost a fight of his own. There is no bearing. Granted he's been virtually unheard from since the Degale fight but I'm confident that if Haye helped him to British and Commonwealth titles while also occupied with the Wlad preparations, he has the ability to take him further. You cite the fact that Haye isn't long from retirement as a disadvantage when on the contrary, he'll have more time to promote after retiring.

Besides, going by the Calzaghe-under-Warren philosophy, it's not necessarily Haye's fault that Groves has been inactive. If Groves wants more big fights then surely he can push for them. I believe he even got called out by European champ Piotr (sorry his surname escapes me)but chose to sit tight and let Degale get the shot instead.

It certainly not Hayes fault for Groves inactivity as lets not forget Haye has been seriously ill recently with a life threatening injury to his little toe

I agree with most of you on Groves sticking with Haye/Booth for now. My concern is more into late next year well into Haye's retirement. Then we'll see how well Haye copes with keeping his promotional company running successfully. Of course with more spare time you'd expect him to invest more of his own time into it.

My problem is how he's now seen in America/Europe where I think he's a bit of a laughing stock with his recent performance post Toegate...

Boxers like De La Hoya/Mayweather have built upon their success and status. Haye will have to put a hell of a lot of mileage in if his promotional company is going to succeed into his retirement. In fact I would go as far in saying its in his interests to hang around a few more years to build upon his credibility in the heavyweight division. Otherwise i think he'll struggle to keep fighters on his book as well as the respect of other promoters when negotiating with them in fights.

Kev one of the reasons Golden Boy has flourished is when they started they had Oscar and the likes of Mosley on the board and as they were still active fighters and with the PPV numbers Oscar did HBO knew they were going to deliver a couple of mega shows a year which you would have to think made negotations and getting a foot in the door a little easier.

Would think something similar has happened with Hayemaker over here, would think Sky have been fairly accomodating knowing Haye was always going to fight a Klitschko an deliver fights of the PPV figures the Audley farce was. Do have to wonder if Haye does follow through on his retirement plan or even takes a couple of low key rebuilding type fights will his contract negotiations with Sky go so smoothly next time, is a worry that one could see Groves get lost in the pack, Hennessy has proven how fighters can struggle when their promoter is on the outs with Sky.

Don't think they'll use his promoter to dub him. If he ends up being world class he'll end up getting shots at titles. (One assumes)
As for Groves should leave Booth because of Haye and his apparent ineptness I think such a statement is mildly farcical. You don't leave a trainer because of another fighters performance, especcially as he came up with the plan on how to beat his arch-nemesis-rival-guy and worked it very well especially considering I think a lot of people are forgetting how Groves was a massive underdog coming in. Also I think he enjoys being with Booth and Haye, he has said in interviews it feels like I have a family in the gym and it feels like we're pulling in the same direction. But because Haye couldn't beat his biggest challenge he should leave them?! Mental I tell the.
Also could it occur to many of you that Groves has a little bit to do with this aswell not just the promotional company, let's also not forget that he came out of the Degale fight with two very nasty cuts, he could perhaps wanting them to heal up 100% before going back into sparring. Or just want a rest for a bit and mull over his options, he is a guy with his own brain you know, and he seems to most certainly have his head screwed on right. Leaving his promotional company at this moment in time seems a bit silly to me and something I'm 100% certain he won't be doing in the next few years.

He is. Signing with Matchroom.

good stuff, said it would be good for him, no doubt we'll be hearing more of him from know on

I think it's a good move from Groves, the wheels have fell off the Haye band wagon, time to move on. Hayes misfortunes are affecting his career.

Is he retaining the services of Adam Booth I wonder?

Colonial Lion wrote:Is he retaining the services of Adam Booth I wonder?

I believe so, as trainer and manager.

Seems rather complicated. My uinderstanding was that Booth was essentially promoter/trainer/manager all rolled into one and was a key figure in Hayemqker promotions. By leaving I would have thoughtthere would be some level of fall out or suggestion Booth couldnt get the fights for Groves. Especially since Booth/Haye/Groves appeared to have a very close relationship. If he is leaving Hayemaker it may not be too long before Booth follows or else leaves Hayemaker himself. With Hayes career seemingly in he balance Booth may opt to concentrate on Groves. Not sur where this leaves Hayemaker promotions though. Without Hayes media coverage it may end up petering out against the competition, especially Matchroom who seem to be making big pushes and Warren who is well established.

Yeah it's strange, changes must be on the way.

maybe it could be a indicater that haye wont be fighting again

Colonial Lion wrote:Seems rather complicated. My uinderstanding was that Booth was essentially promoter/trainer/manager all rolled into one and was a key figure in Hayemqker promotions. By leaving I would have thoughtthere would be some level of fall out or suggestion Booth couldnt get the fights for Groves. Especially since Booth/Haye/Groves appeared to have a very close relationship. If he is leaving Hayemaker it may not be too long before Booth follows or else leaves Hayemaker himself. With Hayes career seemingly in he balance Booth may opt to concentrate on Groves. Not sur where this leaves Hayemaker promotions though. Without Hayes media coverage it may end up petering out against the competition, especially Matchroom who seem to be making big pushes and Warren who is well established.

Booth wont be in boxing after Haye retires. He's probably just cutting back and giving Groves a chance to plan his career long term.

Hayemaker wont be an entity in 2 years.

why will booth retire? why wont he stay with groves and try take him to a title?

eddyfightfan wrote:why will booth retire? why wont he stay with groves and try take him to a title?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2010031/David-Hayes-trainer-Adam-Booth-plans-retire.html

I don't imagine Hayemaker promotions has made much money bar Haye himself to be fair I guess, though the Degale Groves would have been a half decent money spinner...

i think now that booth has all the stress of promoting off his chest he might stick with groves for a while, especially because groves seems fight to instructions a lot better than haye.

eddyfightfan wrote:i think now that booth has all the stress of promoting off his chest he might stick with groves for a while, especially because groves seems fight to instructions a lot better than haye.

He wasn't able to do it once, and Groves didn't do it once already... not really a compelling arguement there eddy...

well as a general rule younger guys listen more than world champions, basically i think he can alter groves style a little, where as haye was well established and wasnt likely to change. if i was a trainer i'd rather train a young up and comer who can learn that a champ already set in his ways.

Well, personally I dont' want to go into it with massive detail because I would most definately be here all night but Booth is the one that altered Haye's style to be reliant on speed and counters and making his "Hayemaker" count. Naturally this faield against Wlad, however there was a hole that was shown very early on in Haye's career, Carl Thompson. When it was shown when he couldn't just blast away his opposition he was liable to gas out as he did after 4 rounds against Thompson. They addressed gthis by changing his style completely, you watch most of his fights pre-Thompson he would be pretty aggressive and blast them away, it took (albeit a VERY hard man) in Thompson to show this, but once this was a possibility I think Haye and Booth were slightly worried about this happening again. They created a style in which he would circle make his opponents come to him and catch them out with his speed and powerful counters. Making it much less likely to gas out mid rounds.
Sadly after a long time of doing this though it becomes the norm, you become set in your ways generally speaking, though against Macca he was quite aggressive I will address this, though I think they saw a massive hole in Enzo, don't know what it was, be it a weak chin or what but they changed the plan slightly on that single occassion.
Every other occassion even when he could blast through his opposition easily he still took the safety first approach shown against Ruiz and Harrison. How many times did he stand off even when he could have gone forward don't think this was against the game plan just the way Booth created him to be. Against Wlad he was helpless his style counts for nothing againsgt someone who doesn't make mistakes, doesn't take risks in order to be countered and has the jab to negate other attacks being mounted in the norm Haye sense.

Perhaps its the wise decision to make. With Booth intending to retire after Haye and Haye seemingly on extended vacation Groves needs to refocus his career. Perhaps he felt Haye wasnt concerning himself with his career enough after his defeat to Klitschko. Thats the danger of being a promoter and a fighter.If your own career stalls it can have an adverse effect on those in your stable.

True unless Hayemaker promotions was pretty much for himself primarily and make enough money whislt he was in and around the boxing world, now that he looks set to retire perhaps he is to retire Hayemaker promotions aswell thus making Groves leave for something else.

matchroom sports under eddie hearn seem to know what they are doing. They are building up a pretty good stable and can be seen as the #1 domestically. They have brook, Froch, barker and now groves.

This is great news for groves as eddie has shown that he likes keeping his fighters busy with tough competition. He also seems to be decent at big fights as barker got the martinez clash. Groves is only 23 and is still green. he needs fights to hone his skills and reduce the risk of ring rust when he steps up