Sarries to play in Cape Town!?

Surely this is not a good move for Saracens, with a very strong S.A connection already this would only disenfranchise their domestic fan base?

Who would pay Biarritz's travel costs and what do Sarries season ticket holders think?

I would have thought that Cape Town has enough Rugby of their own without the need for ours.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/8653339/Saracens-likely-to-stage-Heineken-Cup-game-against-Biarritz-in-Cape-Town.html

Well - I'm not a Sarries fan but I don't understand the thinking here. The HC is a European competition - arguably the best in the world. Two sets of supporters going to SA for a club match?? What's the point? In no one's interest except a few peoples egos. I hope they don't get permission.

I understand the thinking behind it. Saracens are a brand and they want to promote that brand in order to make money. The problem is that it could alienate their fans and have the opposite effect.

Taking an LV Cup game there as Wasps and Quins did in Dubai last year would be a better idea as they are poorly supported fixtures so the risk of losing supporters over it would be far less.

You don't have a problem if the rebels or Reds play in Europe, but you have a problem when a European club plays in SA?

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Who are you addressing that to Biltong?

No one in particular, but there were numerous threads of the Australian franchises going to europe and people were happy about that, didn't make a list of those who were happy, but to question the reverse situation of that doesn't make sense.

Reports in the Daily Telegraph today tell how Saracens plan on taking their Heineken Cup fixture against Biarittz 6,000 miles away to Cape Town


Cape Town???? For serious now I thought Wasps to Dubai was a bit much but all the way to Cape Town, I sincerely hope this is a joke

Tbh, I just feel that it is slightly insulting to the away team's fans - I imagine that there'd be a fair few prepared to travel from the Pays Basque to North London, but how many will be able to travel to Cape Town?

I have no issue with Saracens taking a game outside of the country, I just question the choice of game for number of reasons.

Biarritz at home in the Heineken Cup is a game they have to target for a win if they want to progress from the pool stage. Moving it to a neutral country lessens the likelihood of them winning in my view.

It is a huge game for the fans, and one that does not come round every year and a large proportion of home based fans would miss out, and they are the lifeblood of the club.

If they took an LV Cup game, which a lot of fans don't really care for, or even to a certain extent an AP game, where the fans get enough of them to keep them content if they were to lose one overseas, to South Africa as a marketing exercise, then I would say good luck to them.

It's the choice of fixture as opposed to anything else that would concern me about them doing this.

biltongbek wrote:You don't have a problem if the rebels or Reds play in Europe, but you have a problem when a European club plays in SA?

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

There is quite a big difference there though. The Rebels are coming over at the end of their season without their big players, for a pre-season friendly.

Saracens are talking about moving the premier NH competition against one of the best NH sides to a different continent in the middle of a season

Very unhappy with this. I want to watch my side play at home.

If it isn't going to played in VR then at least go back to Wembley.

I don't mind the whole South African connection that much as long as it doesn't go too far.

This is going too far. Saracens is an English club which was established in 1876. It needs to stay this way.

I hope Edward Griffiths learns this time that there is a line and not to cross it.

biltongbek wrote:No one in particular, but there were numerous threads of the Australian franchises going to europe and people were happy about that, didn't make a list of those who were happy, but to question the reverse situation of that doesn't make sense.

If I was an Aussie I wouldn't be happy about that at all. Similarly if I was a Saracens fan, I would be furious about this. There will be a number of season ticket holders who payed their money on the basis of admission to every home game. To move one of the biggest home games of the season to the another continent entirely is simply treating their fans with contempt.

Well what do you guys think is the motivation behind this?

Is it simply an exercise to shake things up?

Is it to expose their players to a different continent, with different conditions?

Is it purely for the money?

Or is it simply management with a bee up their bonnet, believing a change is as good as a holiday?

biltongbek wrote:Well what do you guys think is the motivation behind this?

Is it simply an exercise to shake things up?

Is it to expose their players to a different continent, with different conditions?

Is it purely for the money?

Or is it simply management with a bee up their bonnet, believing a change is as good as a holiday?

Do you really think that question needs answering? Its painfully obvious!

Coaches, players, Biarritz and both sets of fans won't be happy with it, thats for sure

Biltong weren't the Aussies gonna play a friendly in Europe not Super 15 games.

biltongbek it is simply to appeal to South Africans like you.

Realistically South Africans don't really care about Saracens. Hopefully it stays that way.

Notch I am furious.

A link below should enlighten things.

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,12590857

beshocked wrote:biltongbek it is simply to appeal to South Africans like you.

Realistically South Africans don't really care about Saracens. Hopefully it stays that way.

Notch I am furious.

A link below should enlighten things.

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,12590857

I don't live in Capetown, won't travel down to watch the game, and has very little interest in this match

So even though it doesn't appeal to me, I can't see the reason for uproar

Personally I think the HEC organiser should step in and put a stop to this I think its a very bad idea.

biltongbek you don't seem to understand.

This is not a friendly. It's a very important HC game against a big European side,Biarritz!

You don't get the uproar as you don't understand the whole situation.

You prove my point though.

Bedfordwelsh I absolutely agree.

beshocked wrote:biltongbek you don't seem to understand.

This is not a friendly. It's a very important HC game against a big European side,Biarritz!

You don't get the uproar as you don't understand the whole situation.

You prove my point though.

Bedfordwelsh I absolutely agree.

Beschocked, obviously i don't.

But I look at it from my perspective, the sharks had to play the Crusaders at Twickenham. That meant at the end of their tour of australasia they had to travel to England to play a match, and then back to SA for the rest of their matches.

Now I understand there were extenuating circumstances for this. But there was never a murmur of unhapiness about this. In fact we were all happy that our Super Rugby competition was being exposed in Europe.

Now if they want to expose and market the HC competition here, what is so wrong with it. It is only a one off match isn't it?

biltong, I would venture that the Sharks would be guaranteed a decent turn out of South Africans for a match played in London tho? Whereas, Biarritz are unlikely to have many (if any) of their fans in attendance - I jusst think that's a wee bit insulting?

Why don't they play there all the time, at least the players will feel at home.

People in the UK would be happy for super 15 to be played here and people from the SH would probably have no problem with European cup games played in SA. HOWEVER, people from Europe would quite rightly be very peeved off if a European Cup match were played in SA and I think people from the SH would be rightly mifffed if an actual super 15 game were to be played in Europe (obviously Christchurch fund raiser was a bit of an exception due to the awful events that occurred down there).

Biltong, imagine the bulls or another SA team playing a Currie Cup (the most popular competition in SA I believe) game in London or even Edinburgh or somewhere. That'd annoy the local fans no? Especially season ticket holders!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:biltong, I would venture that the Sharks would be guaranteed a decent turn out of South Africans for a match played in London tho? Whereas, Biarritz are unlikely to have many (if any) of their fans in attendance - I jusst think that's a wee bit insulting?

I am not so sure, as far as I remeber there were many comments regarding the stadium not being filled.

I just think you guys are looking at this from a wrong angle. If you are as proud of your HC as you all say, here is a one off opportunity to impress the South africans with your brand.

screamingaddabs wrote:People in the UK would be happy for super 15 to be played here and people from the SH would probably have no problem with European cup games played in SA. HOWEVER, people from Europe would quite rightly be very peeved off if a European Cup match were played in SA and I think people from the SH would be rightly mifffed if an actual super 15 game were to be played in Europe (obviously Christchurch fund raiser was a bit of an exception due to the awful events that occurred down there).

Biltong, imagine the bulls or another SA team playing a Currie Cup (the most popular competition in SA I believe) game in London or even Edinburgh or somewhere. That'd annoy the local fans no? Especially season ticket holders!

I think we must agree to disagree on this. We are proud of our currie Cup and if the organisers explain the motivation behind why they would want to exhibit our currie cup in europe in a one off match, I doubt you'll see that much of an uproar.

That is just my opinion, perhaps i am wrong.

biltongbek the situation is completely different.

Are Crusaders or Sharks owned 50% by English businessmen? No. Have they got large English contingents? No.

The South Africans who own 50% of Saracens are desperately trying to increase interest and support from ex pat South Africans and those in South Africa.

Will be this a one off? Unlikely.

Their current schemes have ended in failure but it won't stop them trying.

I as a Saracens fan do not want Saracens becoming a South African club.

Rival club supporters call us Saffacens for a reason and it becomes increasingly hard to defend the Saracens management.

At the moment we have a nice balance. I like the South African players in our team. The management has done a good job in the last two seasons.

On the other hand moving this match to Cape Town is a step too far.

Saracens v Biarritz in Cape Town? Just doesn't make sense!

Now if it was Saracens v Ulster i could understand...

I can't imagine Biarritz will be too keen!

going to merge this with the other thread that's discussing this

biltongbek wrote:You don't have a problem if the rebels or Reds play in Europe, but you have a problem when a European club plays in SA?

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Makes perfect sense - we want all rugby to be played in Europe in the future.

Plus, and perhaps more importantly, you mgiht have missed the increased fustration amongst many fans over the impact TV has had on fixtures - with them subject to be moved from the traditional Saturday afternoon to Friday nights and sunday afternoons. People are all ready angry about having to make it to watch their home team at an akward time for them but at the team's home ground... now Saracens are moving the times and the ground - that isn't going to make fans who want to watch their local team too happy. Plus, with it being Saracens they're never going to live it down - for the unproven benefits of extending their brand overseas, they're going to risk doing long term damage to it in the UK

Snoopster absolutely agree.

I already gave my point of view but it seems bilbongtek has gone into hiding.

beshocked wrote:Snoopster absolutely agree.

I already gave my point of view but it seems bilbongtek has gone into hiding.

"you can run, but you can't hide"

" Look under every bush, in every outhouse, but find him."


Perhaps i do not have enough understanding of the situation in Europe, but for me the pricipal remains the same.

Sport is being promoted everywhere. A few years ago we had two Australian teams play a match of aussie Rules in SA, we had the IPL here for a season, it all went down well, OK the Aussie rules didn't catch on here. But as sporting bodies are trying to market and expand their brands, we will most likely see more of this type of "exhibition matches" occur.

biltongbek how would you feel if an English fat cat bought 50% of Sharks and started playing games in England to turn the Sharks into an English club in South Africa?

beshocked wrote:biltongbek how would you feel if an English fat cat bought 50% of Sharks and started playing games in England to turn the Sharks into an English club in South Africa?

You guys have a different situation where it comes to ownership of your rugby clubs. SARU holds 50 % ( I am not sure if is just over or under) of the Super Fanchises, therefor that scenario is unlikely.

But we need to face reality, rugby is no longer a sport for the community, country etc. It is a bunch of fatcats making money out of their " product"

I would like it if a English fat cat would buy 50% of the Lions.

You are like a politician dodging the questions thrown at you!

FerN wrote:I would like it if a English fat cat would buy 50% of the Lions.

beshocked wrote:You are like a politician dodging the questions thrown at you!

Then ask a straight question.

Ok. A few straight questions

Would you like it if an English fat cat bought 50% of Sharks and started playing games in England to turn the Sharks into an English club in South Africa?

Do you like Saracens?

beshocked wrote:Ok. A few straight questions

Would you like it if an English fat cat bought 50% of Sharks and started playing games in England to turn the Sharks into an English club in South Africa?

Do you like Saracens?

I will answer this one -

I have no problem with this. There won't be to much English players in there either way. They get way to much money in England and you can get players of the same or even better calibre back home. Sharks is basically English anyway, with Natal being a English Colony, before the Union of South Africa started.

As long as the sharks still play in the domestic competitions and Super tournament then I don't mind who owns it.

As I am trying to say, rugby is business now, not just rugby. How many South african companies are owned by offshore investors? Many, but they still create jobs here.

I try to watch all European matches where South Africans are involved in, the problem is that we only see some of the matche and cannot follow one specific team right through the season. So to have an affinity or loyalty to one team in europe is very diffcult. I have nothing against Saracens.

Surely if it got a few thousand more fans watching the HC it's a good thing?(I don't know if it will)

In another season or two you'll have forgotten it even happened, but some of those fans you may have made might still be around.

Unless it's your club it's virtually impossible for others to understand.

Makes sense with the odd exhibition game in London with SH teams as the expats alone can make for a big audience. Might be a few English expats but cant imagine that there are that many Biarritz supporters living in Cape Town though

There was an aborted attempt at Stade Francais playing a match against Ulster in Brussels a few years ago, but this is not in the same league.

What about the Biarritz fans? It's bad enough Saracens don't care about their own fans but it's a shocking piece of disrespect to the opposition.

What next? Leinster fans are told their match against Glasgow won't be in Scotland, instead they have to dish out the cash for a flight to and accomodation in Buenos Aires? Tigers fans are told not to book their away trip to Belfast just yet, it might be in Iceland?

Isn't the fun of the HC travelling to away matches and getting down and dirty with the locals?

And doesn't the local economy deserve the influx of away fans?

Nothing in this idea makes sense.

Seems a bit reckless to me. Saracens are already disenfranchising some of their support base by moving from a ground that they've had a fairly lengthy association with. (it's a good move, but there are bound to be some who object) Now they are potentially taking their most important home game of the season away from there ST holders. Seems a little foolhardy to be honest.

I don't like this one bit. Saracens are a London club and their fans are in London. I'd be furious were I a Sarries fan and unable to watch this match live. As for the Biarritz fans and players (who have an extremely long flight ahead), it's pretty disrespectful.

Sarries haven't done a bad job with their South Africa project, it could have been handled far more objectionably and they've managed to keep a good group of English players (and some promising youngsters) to ensure the club retains it's identity as an Englsh club side, but this is a backwards step in that regard. I hope the money is good.

Um while everyone's untwisting their knickers, remember it just been proposed as an idea! its not set in stone and will be happening its just an idea

So can everyone calm down and have a cup of tea.

It's ridiculous that Saracens think they can receive payouts from the English RFU when they make it clear they want to be at least a semi-South-African club. I've a lot of respect for Sarries and like some of their players, but this is just taking the p*ss!

Eustace H Plimsoll wrote:It's ridiculous that Saracens think they can receive payouts from the English RFU when they make it clear they want to be at least a semi-South-African club. I've a lot of respect for Sarries and like some of their players, but this is just taking the p*ss!

Aren't the payouts tied to the number of English Qualified players in their squads? Don't see the problem with that.