Murray says Nadal is the best

How are we fans supposed to help it on preventing our selves to be involved in GOAT debates when the professionals can't help themselves. The past greats have backed Federer as the greatest with even Sampras admitting you have to hand it to Federer yet the new generation of players often back Nadal especially Murray who i'm afraid seems to be the biggest Nadal fan of all. This is a short article on this

www.m.mirror.co.uk/article?a=m4:23212726

Also the press can't stop fueling this debate. Was it this intense when Sampras won his 12th to pass Borg and Laver? I mean GOAT arguments. Let this not turn into a Fedal debate but rather why the obsession with ranking one player the greatest of all time.

Simple_Analyst wrote:Was it this intense when Sampras won his 12th to pass Borg and Laver? I mean GOAT arguments.

Yes, by the time Sampras got that far it was a big issue. But a few years later, to be precise at the AO 2004, people started to talk about the chances on Federer breaking Sampras' slam record...mind you: Federer had 1 slam under his belt..
See, that's the difference. Many forget that.

I agree, it isn't particularly helpful in having this debate before Wimbledon has even started in the first place. I mean, can't we wait until Wimbledon is over, then at least if Nadal wins, it will give more weight to Murray.

Also, isn't it convenient that he's saying this to the press? That way, if he loses to Nadal in the semis, it's easier for him to say sure, I lost, but he is the best. A good tactic to reduce the media pressure I'd say.

To be honest, it's obvious that Nadal, barring a career-ending injury, is going to be more successful than Federer. Statistically, he'll probably be the best player ever. However, I think that the whole GOAT thing arose with Federer because as well as getting results, he also plays tennis in an unbelievably stylish way, which is something Nadal will never do.

World number four Murray said: "Rafa for me is maybe the best"

The word "maybe" may leave it a bit open ended no!

What does murray know, he's only a tennis player.

I was watching footage of Federer from 2006/7 earlier today. . . I declare it official that Federer is the best. There you go, it's official.

I think Murray "likes" Nadal more than Federer. Maybe that has something to do with his comment?

To be fair, the modern media are driving guys like Nadal and Federer (who have the capability) to be "greatest".

When Sampras was playing he didnt seem that bothered about breaking the record and only got more into it when he got to 9/10 slams. For alot of his career he didnt take it too seriously and missed out on alot of AO's - as did Agassi. Whereas now, all the guys play all the events.
Before Sampras's era I dont think Borg and others paid much credence to the GOAT thing either. Its very much a modern obession in the media - we have an obsession to rank and pigeon-hole everything.

We have to wait for Nadal and Federer to hang their boots up before we can discuss their careers properly and where they may stand in the hall of fame.

droogle pm for you

droogle wrote:What does murray know, he's only a tennis player.

I was watching footage of Federer from 2006/7 earlier today. . . I declare it official that Federer is the best. There you go, it's official.

So your saying that being a tennis player he is not best qualified to offer his opinion about a tennis player he has played more than you?

Gee Whiz, we have a tennis expert on our hands

And Djoko said in the same article that he thinks that fed is best as he has won more slams to date.

Until Nadal overhauls Fed's records of slams, he will be considered second best.

I played tennis once. I know how it works.

Come on, we all know this debate is foolish. As lydian says, let the comparison be made at the end of their careers.

GOAT always varies. When Laver hung his racket up he was considered the GOAT, as was Borg, then as was Sampras. It is a subject that will always draw different opinions. It is always going to change.

Wow Djokovic cleverly mentions Federer's number of slam so he refers to numbers. Also after the USO he said to him Nadal is best and said so several times after.

Simple_Analyst wrote:Wow Djokovic cleverly mentions Federer's number of slam so he refers to numbers. Also after the USO he said to him Nadal is best and said so several times after.

Can you please provide the links where Djoko said that Nadal is the best?

It's ironic, Nadal seems to be the only who doesn't care if he's the greatest of all time, being one of the best is fine for him, got to give him credit for modesty.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon11/columns/story?columnist=tandon_kamakshi&id=6671943

Murray gets closer to beating Nadal than Federer nowadays so of course he woudl want Nadal to be the best. Last time Murray met both in a tournament he did very well against Nadal while he did not see the ball against Federer. ...And Djokovic would tell you it;s easier to beat Rafa than an old Federer even.

Wow, look for the post USO final interview. Djokovic and Murray always seem to fawn over Nadal and also might be because they a bit closer.

I'm not sure exactly why Djokovic will think it's easier to beat Nadal.

Simple_Analyst wrote:I'm not sure exactly why Djokovic will think it's easier to beat Nadal.

because he has beaten him 4 times in a row in last 4 meetings.

But he beat Federer 3 times in a row before losing at the French Open. Or you might ask Djokovic who he'll prefer to play in a slam, Nadal or Federer lol.

wow wrote:because he has beaten him 4 times in a row in last 4 meetings.

Nadal lost to Nole 3 times in a row prior to beating him at USO 2010 - its performances in slams that count.

In just slams Nadal is 5-0 vs Nole.
In just slams Federer is 5-3 vs Nole.

Who does Nole prefer facing again?

In other news, Nadal might start under the roof tomorrow. How will that affect his game. Lots of these players haven't exactly played under indoor conditions on grass. Nadal might struggle. First week grass and indoors.

lydian wrote:

wow wrote:because he has beaten him 4 times in a row in last 4 meetings.

Nadal lost to Nole 3 times in a row prior to beating him at USO 2010 - its performances in slams that count.

In just slams Nadal is 5-0 vs Nole.
In just slams Federer is 5-3 vs Nole.

Who does Nole prefer facing again?

US open 2010, Djoko was half dead owed to his marathon match against Fed. Djoko neutralises nadal with his double handed back hand. Nadal hardly ever loses on clay and if I am not wrong then he lost against Djoko in straight sets.

Fed still has more chances to beat Djoko as he was the one who broke djoko's winning streak. Nadal too knows that Djoko has his number now. He was clueless in the finals (last 4) he lost against Djoko. IMO Djoko will win more against Nadal in the coming matches.

Wow i've seen all this before, Nadal nemesis who are supposed to beat him coming short. Remember how Soderling was never to lose to Nadal again at slams after FO 09? Djokovic beating Nadal on clay never suprised me. He has always come close at times before finally managing. But you never know, I guess Federer will prefer playing Nadal in a slam to Roddick lol.
And at the USO, you realise the Sunday was washed off? Djokovic will beat Nadal and
Get winning streaks against him but watch again when they meet in a slam final now no.1 and 2, Nadal will walk home with the trophy. He is that good in slam finals.

wow wrote:US open 2010, Djoko was half dead owed to his marathon match against Fed. Djoko neutralises nadal with his double handed back hand. Nadal hardly ever loses on clay and if I am not wrong then he lost against Djoko in straight sets.

Fed still has more chances to beat Djoko as he was the one who broke djoko's winning streak. Nadal too knows that Djoko has his number now. He was clueless in the finals (last 4) he lost against Djoko. IMO Djoko will win more against Nadal in the coming matches.

No Novak wasnt half dead because he had a days rest due to the final being played on Monday.
I'm not interested in the non-slam results as Nole won 3 times in a row before losing that USO.

I dont see how Fed has more chances to beat Novak just because he ended the streak. Federer also ended Nadal's 81 clay streak but has only beat him once on clay since (after Nadal's 4hr marathon against Novak 20hrs before the final).
Nadal wasn't clueless in the finals, he was form-less. Big difference.
Lets see what the future slams bring but there's a reason Nadal-Novak are 11-11 outside slams and 5-0 in them...

Murray says.....

Simon says.....

And what do I says

Simple_Analyst wrote:Let this not turn into a Fedal debate but rather why the obsession with ranking one player the greatest of all time.

Precisely what is was intended to be. (See all previous comments as proof).

Do these names ring a bell for anyone - Raonic, De Schepper, Haase,...?

This also proves that we have reached the 'end of time' to anoint a GOAT. I will wait for Monday and Katie O' Brien to start the 'big bang'/'time' again on Court 3 @ Wimbledon with the blessings of Stephen Hawking - an observer from another 'time' parallel world. Time (- now an oxymoron in English language) for a few strawberries in the 'Restaurant at the End Of Universe and Time'

TARDIS - Bigger on the inside.

"FEDERER-NADAL DOMINATION – Since Nadal won his first Grand Slam title at Roland Garros in 2005, he and Federer have combined to win 22 of the past 25 Grand Slam tournaments (except '08 &’11 Aust. Open – Djokovic, ’09 US Open – del Potro). During that stretch, Federer has won 12 Grand Slam titles and Nadal 10."

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/06/25/Shark-Bites-Wimbledon-Analysis.aspx

Djokovic and Murray both consider Nadal the greatest of all time. Could this be a reflection of their opinion of Fed personally? The relationship between these two and Fed has not always been very cordial. Roger has in the past been less than respectful of these two players and their camps both in media comments and in his attitude towards them during matches. I am of two minds with this goat debate. In my mind Roger is the greatest of the modern era, but if Nadal can get close to Roger's grandslam haul then I would give the nod to Rafa. I think if Nadal finishes with lets say 15 or 14 slams and Roger finishes with 16 in my mind Nadal would be a better champion. Also looking at the head to head and Nadal's record haul of Master's events. But I think in life there is always a fascination with crowning something or someone the best there has ever been.

socal1976 wrote:Djokovic and Murray both consider Nadal the greatest of all time. Could this be a reflection of their opinion of Fed personally? The relationship between these two and Fed has not always been very cordial. Roger has in the past been less than respectful of these two players and their camps both in media comments and in his attitude towards them during matches. I am of two minds with this goat debate. In my mind Roger is the greatest of the modern era, but if Nadal can get close to Roger's grandslam haul then I would give the nod to Rafa. I think if Nadal finishes with lets say 15 or 14 slams and Roger finishes with 16 in my mind Nadal would be a better champion. Also looking at the head to head and Nadal's record haul of Master's events. But I think in life there is always a fascination with crowning something or someone the best there has ever been.

I feel the same - I think Murray and Djoko doesn't like Roger, on personal level, mainly due to the disrespect Roger showed to them at early stage. The age difference could also be a factor. This GOAT debate should be left when both the players retire. Right now for me if Roger is a GOAT then Rafa sure is the GOAT eater no?

Laverfan
That's one scary set of numbers - 22 of 25 slams between two players.

If both were to retire tomorrow, Federer would be considered to have the better record and to be a very viable candidate for all round GOAT, while Rafa would have to settle for a position as probably clay GOAT and otherwise a level below the very best all-round.

However, they won't retire tomorrow, and Rafa particularly should have at least 2 or 3 more seasons at the top of the game, so we shall see where this all ends up. The interesting question is that with Roger coming towards the end, now Rafa has competition on hard and clay courts from Djokovic, and potential competition on faster courts from Murray and Del Porto - so is the period of 2 player domination finally coming to a close?

"This GOAT debate should be left when both the players retire"

How very TRUE and yet this keeping rearing its head.

For instance who is to say that Djokovic couldn't pass both Federer & Nadal (unlikely but not impossible)

Waste of time to debate at present and best left alone for now.

GOAT should read........ Get Over Absurd Theories

Goat should be replaced by 1OTA = 1 Of The Admirables

Considering that time has not ceased to be, the GOAT moniker is a neologism that will never make it into mainstream language until such time that the term GOAT becomes a true representation.

I wonder whose name we will be chalking up in 15 years time and going through the same monotonous process yet again.

Unless Mother Shipton is right and an asteroid will hit earth and end time for us all in a few years time.

dummy_half wrote:
That's one scary set of numbers - 22 of 25 slams between two players.

It absolutely is scary. Despite the talents of Djokovic, Murray, Del Potro, Nalbandian, and countless others, these two have kept ahead of the pack. Fantastic time for Tennis. As Jubba says, there may perhaps be others we talk about in the same vein in 15 years.

Laverfan, I wouldn't be surprised if others step up, but we must remember that while other players may step up to get a few slams, that rarified air of double digits and goat like players is small. Since the open era there really is only 5 guys that get talked about in that circle. Fed, Nadal, Borg, Sampras, and Laver. I doubt we will see another double digit slam champion for sometime. The depth at the current top is too strong, and the generation coming up right now is a bit weak (18-22) year olds. But maybe there is a 15 year old right now that in 10 or 12 years will be in the conversation that would be wonderful.

superochog, fully agree, the Roger rivalry with Andy and Novak has never had that nice touchy feeling as with nadal. In my mind as a Novak fan that is kind of the reason I enjoy the novak-Roger rivalry much more than fed and Nadal. Its closer and meaner, quite frankly.

Troll OP take that glue off your nose.

I say " Davydenko is the BEST "

wow wrote:I say " Davydenko is the BEST "

Who is the best?

Relatively easy to be the "best" for a point, a game, a set or even a match. Or even to stretch a point to win a slam or a couple of slams.

But much more difficult to be the best consistantly enough to win 16 slams or even 10?

I vote Davydenko as the GOABT, greatest of all bald tennis players.

dummy_half wrote:Laverfan
That's one scary set of numbers - 22 of 25 slams between two players.

One is a one-in-a-century genius, the other "was" a one in a century physical phenomenon.

However now we have a couple of players as physical as Nadal so it's going to be much more open.

Oh good news for Rafa now you can give him a break and start on the other two

Somehow Haddie I don't think that will be enough for tenez to give Rafa a break.

Sometimes people think I win because I'm physically fit, but, no. When I win, it's because I play well, [and that wasn't the case today]

Rafael Nadal, during his press conference following his defeat to Soderling at the FO in 2009.

But others know much, much better than the man himself.

Simple_Analyst

"How are we fans supposed to help it on preventing our selves to be involved in GOAT debates"

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Well you can start by not creating another article about it !

socal1976 wrote:Somehow Haddie I don't think that will be enough for tenez to give Rafa a break.

Socal what is the name of that song "yes we know him so well or something like that

erictheblueuk wrote:Simple_Analyst

"How are we fans supposed to help it on preventing our selves to be involved in GOAT debates"

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Well you can start by not creating another article about it !